Be Excellent To Each Other

I've just been on the phone to my grandmother, who has been without a washing machine for over a month now. She was awaiting the delivery of a new washing machine on Monday when the delivery/electrician people turned up with the machine.

Ripped off the box and started to walk off.

Nan says she paid for fitting and to remove the old machine, they said she did not, she said they couldn't just leave the two machines in the kitches as the kitches floor space is 3x6 feet. They said they couldn't take it back as the box had been torn.

Nan phoned my uncle who gave them an angry voice and they took the machine away.

She then gets taken back to the shop by my uncle and they discover that the shop has messed up, fiting and removal of old machine were indeed included. They'll fit it on Thursday.

yesterday the same guy turns up and says he will not fit it as the current washing machne fitting is 'illegal' and he will not fit the new machine.

The council, two years ago, fitted a whole new kitchen for my nan (and everyone else in the neighbourhood), and moved and replumbed her washing machine to the opposite side of the kitchen. The current washing machine fitting is their work.

My uncle phoned the council and they say that their work is guaranteed for only one year from the date of fitting, and as such they will do nothing about it.

So, the fiting is illegal (and so I am assuming dangerous) and their work, and my grandmother has been using this illegally fitted machine for two years with no way of knowing. The council say not their problem, despite the fact that the only way to have known it was illegal was to have had your washing machine break down within the first twelve months of it being moved, or to get independant experts in to oversee all of the work.

Does my grandmother have any rights in this situation, and who is culpable?

What the hell constitutes an illegal washing machine fitting?

I assume one that is not properly wired, grounded or where the pipework is liable to burst due to pressure, erhaps? I am not sure, I don't think he told her, and if he did I don't think she would have taken it in properly.

Well when major work is undertaken on an council house, it's up the the council inspectors to make sure it's been carried out correctly surely? It it hasn't been done legally, then I would have thought that lay at the feet of the council and their contractors.

Culpability lies with the council here, and saying that there's a 12 month guarantee on work carried out is ridiculous. If it's illegal it's illegal (although I'd take the fitter's opinion with a pinch of salt to be honest, as I don't know of any way of making a washing machine fitting "illegal")

Shower fittings can be dangerous (and possibly illegal) if they're not installed by a qualified person, so I guess washing machines are the same. See if you can get an independent assessor to come in pro bono and see if it is illegal, and then go to the council armed with those facts. You should be able to get it sorted and demand monetary compensation for any costs to get the independent assessor in.

IANAL though.

I'm assuming this is what he means, and I don't think it's a big job. Of course, it could cost a fair bit to get an electrician in to confirm that this is the case, let alone actually ( ) do it.
Mr Chris (or our other trainee lawyers) will be in a much better position to answer this for you, but if the council fit it illegally the first place, then it's up to them to get it sorted now regardless of how long the guarantee was.

Thanks Gaz, I wouldn't have bothered if I'd known you were going to show up.

I'm fairly sure they are being lazy bastards and need an extreme shouting at.

A washing machine is an appliance like any other. There are no laws concerning its installation.

If the delivery monkeys are alleging a safety problem with the house wiring or something like that, hear them out and have the council check it if there's any grounds to it. Get the actual details and I can tell you if it's a valid complaint.

The only possibility I can think of is that the copper pipe tails do not have equipotential bonding (silver tags with green/yellow wires joining them together). Or there's exposed wiring or something.


Easy solution: plug the dammed thing in and forget about it.

The 12 month guarantee they refer to is the 'defects liability period' that the council's contractor is responsible for coming back and fixing anything that he bodged during the initial work; the period can vary but usually it is set at 12 months as part of the contract between the council and the contractor.

However, if it the wiring/plumbing has been installed in a way that isn't in line with either the design or building regulations then the council have missed it on their inspection and they should rectify the installation (As good practice rather than an legal obligation I presume). It's in their own interest as clearly their contractor has dropped a clanger and they need to resolve a future maintenance issue before it's a bigger problem.

Unless of course the washing machine installation fella is just a lazy, lying dick. But then a washing machine takes less than half an hour to plumb in so if he's made all of the effort to go to your Nan's house it would make sense for him to just do it there and then?

Is it actually a council house then, or does your Nan own it and the council upgraded it for some reason?

I think, but I am not certain, that it is a council owned house.

After an Email from my uncle it seems that botht he wiring and the plumbing have been not properly installed. There is no accessible way to turn water off tot he washing machine (they bricked the little tap thing off) and the wiring has been incorrectly done. The council seem to be saying 'ha ha, you haven't noticed for a whole year, so tough luck, old frail lady with one arm who can't walk to the launderette to wash any clothes!'

Contact the local paper.

Oh dear

Well, the water shouldn't be a problem, they could have turned the main tap off, after all.

Without knowing what they say is wrong with the wiring I can't tell if it's bollocks or not. Certainly, if there is something amiss, it should be up to the council to fix it, 12 months be damned.

If they own the house surely it's their responsibility regardless. Our washing machine is leaking and no way in fuck would I let my landlord say "Ha ha you moved in more than 12 months ago"

If she owns the place I can imagine her being SOL.

This sounds like a job for a box of starbars and "Comical Gerald"

I dunno, I think his "furious anger" has gone off the boil somewhat since becomming a 3-legged rodent.

StumpyGerald.

Not-Nice-To-Laugh-At-The-DisabledGerald

I would have thought so - if they have carried out dangerous works I think that they should be respeonsible for seeing that they fix their own mistakes, but I have passed opinion and advce onto my uncle (including goign to the paper about if) and he is going to have to deal with things for a change as our own oven has broken and I have that to deal with, and there is not much I can do from 300 miles away whilst he only lives around the corner from my grandmother.

He has FOUR legs. FOUR. You can only see 3 because of the angle. THE ANGLE.

My poor mouse. In another couple of weeks I'll launch his website proper and then you'll all be laughing*.





* with me, not at me, obv.

Xmas Feex

If you phone the council repair line or general enquiries number expect to get a stock answer, usually the one that requires the least follow up as they have call quotas to deal with.

Go into your local housing office (in her estate or locality) or the central housing advice unit in the town where that council is based and make a face to face enquiry, which should at least get an answer (maybe following a check) as to whether the council's work is compliant with current regs.

My suspicion is that the shop is taking the piss here. I reckon you've got a jobsworth coming out and are not getting the right contact when you communicate with the council.

This sort of, but not specific issue I deal with every day. I might on occasion call the general or repairs number for something, but I find it is never a substitute for making the trip down to an office to ask a question face to face.

Of course, this may have already been done in which case your council sucks.