Price of Booze

MaliA · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 19:51

I don't think it's too cheap.

I'm not happy with a minimum price of beer

Nor the potential end to 'Happy Hour'.

It won't stop people getting hammered and doing silly things.

Stupid idea.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7718950.stm

MarcusJ · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 85

Quite so.

Hammer that symptom, and leave the cause well enough alone, because that would involve - oh, I don't know - improving education and policing.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:02

Apparently, 52% of people sometimes binge drink. By definition, some of us forumers are going to do it on Thursday. Hell, I do it a lot.
Anyway, 52%... If more people are doing it than not, doesn't that mean happy hour should actually be enforced?

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

I'm more in favour of beating the living shit out of stupid drunken twats. Preferably to death.

NervousPete · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:03

I blame the media.

Humm, actually, maybe I do. How many lazy scripts have a gleeful, "I got well muntered last night," as a time-filler/excuse for lousy plot development. BBC 3 FOR SHAME.

Nice red wine stay at same price, please. Also quality independent ales.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:04

I'll look out for Comical, obv.

Agent Starling · **Joined:** 8th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 1701

ComicalGnomes wrote:

I'm more in favour of beating the living shit out of stupid drunken twats. Preferably to death.

NervousPete · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:07

Agent Starling wrote:

ComicalGnomes wrote:

I'm more in favour of beating the living shit out of stupid drunken twats. Preferably to death.

Also

MaliA · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:08

ComicalGnomes wrote:

I'm more in favour of beating the living shit out of stupid drunken twats. Preferably to death.

"Sensible policies for a brighter Britain"

metalangel · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:09

I saw a puddle of sick on my way to the station this morning. Nice.

I then saw a puddle of sick on my way out to get lunch this afternoon. Three pigeons were sitting around it, gleefully devouring it. I blame society.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Actually I'm in favour of permanent solutions that work, of which my above suggestion is one. Fixed penalty fines won't do it, or police cautions, or deferred sentences or community service. Brutal and harsh punishments are the way forward.

andyb · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 489

what's the current definition of 'binge' these days? isn't it something silly like 3 pints or more?

metalangel · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:11

I think for binge you should have to at least surpass the idiocy seen on any episode of Booze Britain.

nickachu · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:12

andyb wrote:

what's the current definition of 'binge' these days? isn't it something silly like 3 pints or more?

4 pints or more.... so a light lunch then

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6640

For the average male, 4 pints of Stella or equivalent counts as a binge. Hardly what most people would count as a heavy night out.

[Edit] - Or whatever nickachu said. Darn.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

MetalAngel wrote:

I think for binge you should have to at least surpass the idiocy seen on any episode of Booze Britain.

Man I love Booze Britain, schadenfreude FTW.

Note how every single person on the show takes immense glee in recounting precisely how much and what type of alcohol they've consumed, as if it is somehow an impressive thing. They also do it while grinning and chuckling in that abashed-but-proud way, as if getting really drunk is somehow a really clever in-joke.

I wish alcohol was more fatal.

andyb · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 489

hmm, then I binge pretty much every weekend, and more often than not during the week too.

Although not the last 2 weeks, as I've been on medication

myp · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 20:24

ComicalGnomes wrote:

I wish alcohol was more fatal.

Alcohol's incredibly fatal; you just have to be in it for the long haul. I know you like your swift justice, so it's probably not the best way for you to kill someone.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6640

You could drown someone in it, or spray them in pure alcohol and set fire to them.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

The only drinking I do is binge drinking, not really seeing the point if you don't have enough to feel it. Having said that, I have a pretty much totally dry couple of months/quarters/years between each session.

Shin · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 21:20

I binge drink aswell, I've cut down a lot actually since trying to lose weight. I just drink on fridays usually...but maybe quite a lot on a friday

Hugh · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 21:26

Man, I love booze. The best thing about having a job is being able to afford to get drunk whenever you want.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

Grargngh.
What a bunch of fucking shit. Why should I pay more for the two bottles (TWO BOTTLES) of booze I've bought in a fucking year just because some people are stupid bastards and always will be?

Hint: People don't drink because alcohol is cheap. You know what else is cheap? Onions. But do people binge on onions? No, they don't. Do you know what else is cheap? Milk. But do people binge on milk? No, they don't. Way to punish poor people for the mistakes of guffawing middle class oafs, too. Gah. No, it's no good.

PEOPLE DRINK STUPID AMOUNTS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SERIOUS PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS, NOT JUST BECAUSE IT'S POSSIBLE, YOU STUPID FUCKING STUPIDS.

Make the bars partially legally responsible for anything that happens involving people who've been in their place in the past hour. Any criminal damage, any violence, any drunk 'n' disordliery - fine the pub. Heavily. Then they'll stop doing stupid promotions of their own accord, because it'll no longer be profitable. VOI FUCKING LA.

Also, sort the country out so that there's actually anything for people to aspire to other than drinking and fucking other idiots. Especially for young people, tia.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

This clearly does work, because of all the people who've given up smoking because of all the price increases.

No, wait - the other thing.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

From a business perspective, I really respect pub owners and have no problem with happy hours or other promotions. Time-based offers and discounts for bulk buying are prevalent in ALL forms of business. Why should it be restricted for the sale of alcohol?

Pub owners are merely capitalising on a market with huge demand. It's a free economy and in my eyes totally legal and fine. Nothing would be sold in such a way if there was no demand for it. They're just being businesses, it's legal to consume alcohol, so what's the problem?

Seperate to all that, getting drunk all the time is a stupid, twatworthy thing to do. Fools and their money deserve to be parted, and good on the fucking pubs for taking advantage of all the thick cunts who are more than willing to stump up all their cash on a night out.

I like it, it keeps poor, stupid people poor and stupid. Society needs balance, if everyone scrubbed up and started being intelligent, respectable people, the world would be chaos. Go Darwin!

NervousPete · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 21:49

After watching Futurama just now, I am hopelessly stuck on reading Comical Gnome's words with the voice of Bender in mind. This is a good thing.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Bite my angry metal ass.

Hugh · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 21:54

What about the large percentage of fairly well off young drunks that like to drink to excess from time to time in nice quiet grown up pubs that sell stuff like well-kept Guinness and a range of ales, have a nice fire in winter, would never dream of going near a 'happy hour' or any of those awful ennui caverns like Wetherspoons, which are filled with assistant managers at Next and junior estate agents, and conduct themselves well at all times, even when they're weaving their way home because that's the way they were raised and are generally healthy, productive optimistic people that you'd mostly likely get on with even at the peak of their indulgence?

What about us poor psychologically broken souls? No one ever thinks about us.

I may develop a complex.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Yeah, sure, there's a difference between having a quiet pint with a mate or two, and regularly going out purely to get smashed with a view to boasting about the extent to which you were 'hammered' the previous night. My venom is largely reserved for the latter.

Hugh · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 22:00

No, I'm talking about getting proper trolleyed on Abbott and then giving each other piggybacks across the park.

Yeah, agreed, the lager hounds give us lushes a bad name.

It is also quite acceptable for people to have a complete sense of humour malfunction as far as excessive drinking is concerned when personal circumstances have soured your view of the hard stuff, but it's best not to rain on the parade of the majority who would never dream of saying boo to a goose unless it was a lyric in a song they made up with their friends whilst off their tits on booze.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

ComicalGnomes wrote:

From a business perspective, I really respect pub owners and have no problem with happy hours or other promotions. Time-based offers and discounts for bulk buying are prevalent in ALL forms of business. Why should it be restricted for the sale of alcohol?

Pub owners are merely capitalising on a market with huge demand. It's a free economy and in my eyes totally legal and fine. Nothing would be sold in such a way if there was no demand for it. They're just being businesses, it's legal to consume alcohol, so what's the problem?

Seperate to all that, getting drunk all the time is a stupid, twatworthy thing to do. Fools and their money deserve to be parted, and good on the fucking pubs for taking advantage of all the thick cunts who are more than willing to stump up all their cash on a night out.

I like it, it keeps poor, stupid people poor and stupid. Society needs balance, if everyone scrubbed up and started being intelligent, respectable people, the world would be chaos. Go Darwin!

See, while I totally understand where you're coming from, the difference with booze is that after buying and consuming a load of it, the drunken cunts go and smash bottles in the face of people who were simply having a literal drink or two with their friends, or who had nothing to do with it in the first place. That's still the fault of the person drinking, yes, but the pub still helped allow it to happen by selling them more than they should drink.

Alternative idea: Give the pubs grants/subsidies for security staff, so that obviously drunk nobs can be removed, instead of the staff (who generally don't get paid anywhere near enough to get into a fight over pub policy) having to just pull another pint and look the other way. Properly implemented, this would probably pay for itself in reduced drunken idiot crime rates.

Also, harsher penalties for pubside GBH and sexual harassment. Broke a shop window? Pay for it, plus some. Screamed drunkenly at passing women? Off to the clink you go. Twatted someone on the way home from the pub? Death.

GovernmentYard · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5318

andyb wrote:

what's the current definition of 'binge' these days? isn't it something silly like 3 pints or more?

6 units.

Banning the cheap 2 litre flagons of white cider will just mean street drinkers shoplift more to afford the more expensive things, like special brew.

Maybe disulfiram in school water supplies and McDonald's would solve the problem?

I only drink real ales. I only tend to drink them at home, and I can only afford the 4 cans @ <£4.00 Sainsbury's tend to do - loss leaders on Hobgoblin and Speckled Hen. If chavs make it so I have to pay an extra quid, I might have to start killing.

GB needs to realise that punishing me for stuff others do ain't gonna win my vote

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

Sir Hugh wrote:

It is also quite acceptable for people to have a complete sense of humour malfunction as far as excessive drinking is concerned when personal circumstances have soured your view of the hard stuff, but it's best not to rain on the parade of the majority who would never dream of saying boo to a goose unless it was a lyric in a song they made up with their friends whilst off their tits on booze.

It certainly is best not to be a humourless dick about it, and if anyone's in a good position to be snotty and humourless about levity over drunkenness and alcoholism, I am. If I had never seen what unhealthy drinking habits can do to people, my whole life, and those of my family and many friends would have been immeasurably less miserable. But I pulled my head out of my arse many years ago, and whether someone has suffered directly or indirecly from alcoholism, they have no justification for shitting all over people who enjoy a drink and don't act like a dick about it. They can disapprove, by all means, but beyond that, they can get the fuck over themselves. It's not that hard.

GovernmentYard · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5318

Most alcoholics I work with go out of their way not to cause trouble, they just want to have their booze and not bother anyone.

The six unit thing (for homies, not bitches) is basically down to how much you can throw at your liver in an evening without damaging it. 6 units and you are beginning to kill cells.

Most people who cause shit in the high street would do so on half a shandy if that was all they could afford.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

sinister agent wrote:

Also, harsher penalties for pubside GBH and sexual harassment. Broke a shop window? Pay for it, plus some. Screamed drunkenly at passing women? Off to the clink you go. Twatted someone on the way home from the pub? Death.

And while I see your point, I'm more inclined to blame the individual. Knives are useful tools and serve a purpose, but you can't go blaming the knife shops (if there was such a thing) because wankers buy knives to stab people.

People who get drunk and get violent/anti-social have nobody to blame but themselves. Punish the FUCK out of the individual, I say. The pub is just a vendor and are no more culpable for the actions of drunk people than cigarette-selling shops are for the lung cancer that smoking causes.

I also reject this new fucking stance that 'alcoholism' is a disease, as if it's something you 'catch' and thus you are just a helpless, blameless victim. Kerry cunting Katona has just gone on the record this week to say she was 'diagnosed' as an alcoholic and is 'battling against it'. Alcoholism is not a disease, it's a personal fucking choice of the weak, stupid individual. Psychological condition: yes. Disease: no. Personally culpable: Fuck yes, you twat.

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 22:37

Binge drinking is ace!

Goatboy wrote:

The six unit thing (for homies, not bitches) is basically down to how much you can throw at your liver in an evening without damaging it. 6 units and you are beginning to kill cells

Really? Oh. Why don't they say that then, instead of just wagging their fingers and giving out arbitrary numbers and scoldings?

Goatboy for minister of booze.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

Alcoholism isn't a disease. I have every sympathy for people trying to deal with it (and don't think it's necessarily a sign of weak mindedness - though it can be), but man the fuck up and face facts. It's not a disease, by any definition of the word.

Let's take a pair of alcoholics I once knew. Both lost their family and kids becaues of drinking. Both lost jobs, friends, self-respect and a shitload of money, and had a generally miserable time. One faced up to what he'd let happen to himself, worked out why he was doing it, and confronted his past. He had very little support throughout this, and not much money. He no longer drinks, and now has a house and girlfriend, a bit of work and a few hobbies to keep him entertained.

The second had lots of money, a supportive girlfriend and parents, a couple of decent friends (who'd been through similar things) and access to a detox centre with at least one excellent doctor/counsellor who showed competence and genuine concern for him and his nearest. I even tried to help out more than once, and I thought he was a massive twat. He made excuses and harped on about its being a disease, and oho, he's been at a couple of bottles of vodka a day for about two years now, and pretty much everyone has given him the boot.

I still, despite shaking my head every time I think about how little he appreciates the support he has, have a little sympathy for the second. But I have a fuckload of respect for the first.

I agree with the individual punishment thing, but I still think that setting down some boundaries for the pubs would help keep them from encouraging the whole situation, and there is a situation. Media overreaction notwithstanding, there is a pretty serious problem in this country, of which mass idiotic drinking and aggression is a major symptom. I don't think the drinking is the real problem, both in the individual sense and in the wider social sense.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6640

I keep reading the title of this thread as "Prince of Booze". That would be a fair better title than mere Minister of Booze.

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 22:39

Cszhar of boobs. Boooze. Hic.

Plissken · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 22:41

sinister agent wrote:

Also, harsher penalties for pubside GBH and sexual harassment. Broke a shop window? Pay for it, plus some. Screamed drunkenly at passing women? Off to the clink you go. Twatted someone on the way home from the pub? Death.

Shouted abuse at someone = 100 hours community service + £100 fine.

Did it stop them getting lashed again? No.

Cheap booze isn't the problem (he says, looking lovingly at the 12 bottles of Wychwood he bought for £12 yesterday) - the idea that getting completely and utterly ratarsed is "a great night out" is. But then, it was ever thus, and ever will be.

MaliA · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 22:50

Max sentence for GBH is life, already.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Booze *isn't* cheap, though.

Quote:

We've been hearing this "alcohol is more affordable now than it has ever been" thing for a while now. It certainly doesn't ring true based on our own experience of buying booze - which is fairly extensive. So where's the number from?

Actually from the NHS, as it turns out, and the figures behind the assertion can be seen here in pdf. It's interesting stuff.

In fact, as anyone who regularly buys alcohol could tell you, booze is hugely more expensive than it was in 1980. Its price has almost quadrupled, increasing by 367 per cent.

But surely that's true of all prices? Perhaps everything else - food, fuel, other stuff - has increased by an even huger margin, leaving booze comparatively cheap. Maybe that's why the neo-prohibitionist tendency argue that liquor is too affordable?

Well no, actually. Retail prices in general have gone up, but not the way booze has - overall, prices are up by 309 per cent. Alcohol has increased in price substantially more than most things have.

So how in the world is it more affordable than it used to be?

Well - so goes the thinking - it's because we have more money. While on average the price of stuff has tripled since 1980 in pounds and pence, on average we have about six times as many pounds and pence in our household disposable income as we did then - our real household disposable income has effectively doubled. Thus we can afford more stuff than we could back then - more booze, if we choose, though mainly we don't. Percentages of household budget spent on booze are down by a third, indicating that in real terms household expenditure on booze is stable or increasing only slightly.

Still, by rather convoluted logic, alcohol is 69 per cent more affordable - to householders - than it was in 1980. But that's because all retail products are more affordable - most of them much more so than alcohol. Using this sort of ridiculous economic voodoo, any ordinary retail product has become a hundred per cent more affordable than it was in 1980, as opposed to liquor which is up by only 69 per cent.

Hell - let's play this game ourselves. Booze has failed to increase in "affordability" at the same rate as other retail products. It has actually lagged in relative affordability compared to other products.

Yes, you read it here first, people. Booze is not only hugely, inflation-bustingly more expensive than it was: it has actually fallen behind 30 per cent in affordability compared to other retail products since 1980.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

Mr Chris wrote:

Quote:

Yes, you read it here first, people. Booze is not only hugely, inflation-bustingly more expensive than it was: it has actually fallen behind 30 per cent in affordability compared to other retail products since 1980.

I like how he's phrased that as two totally different factors making booze an expensive con, rather than just one number written two different ways.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

You can use statistics to prove anything, 86% of people know that.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Craster wrote:

Mr Chris wrote:

Quote:

Yes, you read it here first, people. Booze is not only hugely, inflation-bustingly more expensive than it was: it has actually fallen behind 30 per cent in affordability compared to other retail products since 1980.

I like how he's phrased that as two totally different factors making booze an expensive con, rather than just one number written two different ways.

That was rather his point, I think.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

Well no, the 'not only' in that sentence implies that he's come up with two amazing things.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 23:38

ComicalGnomes wrote:

Yeah, sure, there's a difference between having a quiet pint with a mate or two, and regularly going out purely to get smashed with a view to boasting about the extent to which you were 'hammered' the previous night. My venom is largely reserved for the latter.

I don't even have a problem with them, really. I mean, they're not throwing bricks through windows or fighting or anything. But I agree the person is the problem, and not the prices.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 23:46

Goatboy wrote:

Most alcoholics I work with go out of their way not to cause trouble, they just want to have their booze and not bother anyone.

The six unit thing (for homies, not bitches) is basically down to how much you can throw at your liver in an evening without damaging it. 6 units and you are beginning to kill cells.

Most people who cause shit in the high street would do so on half a shandy if that was all they could afford.

The unit thing was set because it sounded good, not because of any medical fact...

also 1 bottle of hobgoblin is 2.4 units.. Real ales although very tasty are normally a lot stronger.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Kovacs Caprios wrote:

Goatboy wrote:

Most alcoholics I work with go out of their way not to cause trouble, they just want to have their booze and not bother anyone.

The six unit thing (for homies, not bitches) is basically down to how much you can throw at your liver in an evening without damaging it. 6 units and you are beginning to kill cells.

Most people who cause shit in the high street would do so on half a shandy if that was all they could afford.

The unit thing was set because it sounded good, not because of any medical fact...

Entirely true. As was the "five a day" thing for fruit and vegetables.

Quote:

Real ales although very tasty are normally a lot stronger.

Sorry, that's utter bollocks. It varies from about 3% to 6%. The stuff I drink regularly averages about 4%. Which is 20% less alcoholic than Stella.

kalmar · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2008 0:06

Mr Chris wrote:

Kovacs Caprios wrote:

Goatboy wrote:

Most alcoholics I work with go out of their way not to cause trouble, they just want to have their booze and not bother anyone.

The six unit thing (for homies, not bitches) is basically down to how much you can throw at your liver in an evening without damaging it. 6 units and you are beginning to kill cells.

Most people who cause shit in the high street would do so on half a shandy if that was all they could afford.

The unit thing was set because it sounded good, not because of any medical fact...

Entirely true. As was the "five a day" thing for fruit and vegetables.

Oh Goatboy. We trusted you, and you've let us all down.
Demotion to low-ranking civil servant of booze must surely follow.

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