Be Excellent To Each Other

A letter from a debt collector has plopped onto my doormat, demanding £155 for E.On, covering the entire period TXU supplied my gas and electric at my old house. Apparently E.On bought Powergen, who had bought TXU.

I suspect this is going to be to do with the pre-payment meter that, inexplicably, reattached to my address after being taken away when /another/ supplier, er, supplied, because no matter how hard I tried, they insisted that it was in my house. When it wasn't, hence the shiny replacement normal meter that I was paying by direct debit on.

I closed the account, and now 2.5 years later, BAM! Obviously, I've received nothing in in the interim, even though I had a mail redirect for a good while after then (at least 9 months, I think) - so the £70 limit thing kicks in, at least. But I don't fucking owe them anything.

The woman I spoke to, who I confused mightily (but hey, I was confused then, and have little memory and no paperwork now), is now ordering a detailed bill breakdown.

For fuck's sake. This has actually unnerved me much more than I expected such a thing would.

Ach, I've had more dunning letters than I can shake a stick at for various things - I bankrupted myself 4-5 years ago (had to after getting screwed out of a large quantity of dosh by two companies I did a lot of work for going tits up owing me close to £75k - I didn't actually get a bean out of them), so I have a lot of first hand experience of dealing with debt collection agencies. Don't be unnerved by it but do be prepared for it to be a lot of aggro to sort out as they're usually staffed by dimwits who don't talk to each other. Also, do as much of it as you can in writing and to the most senior people.

The problem usually stems from the fact that they get paid to chase you making them more persistent and you have to put an inordinate amount of effort into getting them to back off which you don't receive anything for. Nip it in the bud.

Yeah, as I say, the phone call left off with me saying "look, those dates *sound* about right for the time TXU-not-E.On-or-Powergen supplied me*, and there was a massively confusing situation with the meters that they couldn't/wouldn't fix, but my position is that I Paid Everything The Meter Showed". I feel confident in stating this because I'm honest, and given the extreme lack of memory or paperwork I'm going to fall back on that.

Now I wait for this detailed breakdown that she's supposed to be ordering.

* I'm too <x> honest, <x>stupid to say "not me guvnor, never lived there"

Having said all that, if they didn't have your actual address and it was redirected mail I would have ignored it for £150. They're not going to chase that hard.

Nah, they've chased me 2 addresses down the road. The redirection house -> first flat expired donkeys ago, and first flat -> this flat at least 6 months ago.

Edit: I've just remembered; I think there was confusion when switching suppliers, too - something like I gave a reading to TXU, but then paid the outgoing supplier up to the final reading, but then TXU started wanting payment from the original (paid) reading. Or something. But that got sorted... by a nice lady, actually, who thought to try and edit the "initial reading" box on her screen instead of escalating to it the entirely useless cretins above her in the chain. And magically it was done. Funny how the pleasurable experiences are more willing to pop out of the memory wastelands.

I don't think I've had a single supplier change/move go smoothly, and I've been doing this for less than 10 years, FFS.

I received a final reminder today from npower for £109.23.

The problem? I've never, ever been a customer of npower. They haven't even got my name correct. The previous occupier here was with npower, but I switched to EDF before I moved in, and gave EDF my initial meter readings. Therefore, having used no services in the interim, I cannot possibly owe npower anything.

They tried to make me pay some fucking bill just after I moved in TWO YEARS AGO, but I filed a dispute with EDF and then npower shut up, until now.

I'm now waiting on the phone to EDF to find out what my original move-in readers were so I can ring up npower with the relevant information and tell them to fuck right off. I'll see these cunts in court before I pay them a penny that I don't owe.

I didn't get a bill for 4 years for my power in my flat untill this year. It turns out though 2 days before the bill was sent new billing policy's came in. The energy company is responsible for the billing. If you have had no bill for ages and get one you should only be responsible for paying 1 years in the past from the date the bill was sent.

I got 2.5K knocked off.


Check the company policy and the energy watchdogs website ( I was with E.On). They always try and get you to pay but a few calls should get them to forget about it. Although it does sound that cercumstances might be slightly different but worth a try anyway.

Today I received a final demand saying as I'd ignored their previous correspondence, they had to take further action. The lying fucks.

To the bikphone... where the computer promptly told the woman that what I said happened last time is true (ie that I didn't in fact ignore them, I rang and said "nuh-uh"), and that EOn are saying no bills are needed to prove what I owe because... it's due to them miscalculating final balance or repayments or something.

It appears then that EOn are demanding, 2.5 years after the fact, that I repay them for their mistake, and aren't willing to provide paperwork to detail what's gone on.

No wonder the debt collector is pretending I ignored them and are being super-threatening (and the woman has bumped my case to her manager who is definitely really going to ring me back today).

Have you tried writing to the Chairman of the company, explaining what the issues are, and that you would really love to help them, only you can't as it's nothing to do with it, and copy the letter to the Ombudsman?

Err, I might be able to help. PM me with the full details and I'll see what I can do.

*gulp*

HAHAHAHAH!

Did the letter end "yours, myspsywypsy"?

Heh.


Not yet, we'll see what happens when the manager man rings me back, which I'm entirely confident he will and the woman on the phone wasn't fobbing me (in barely-restrained rage mode) off.

No account to freeze!

Thanks to mypsy, I've been speaking to E.On directly - the problem is indeed the magic prepayment meter I'd had replaced, and that then started intermingling with my direct debit payments on my normal meter.

ScottishPower have demanded payment from E.On for the prepayment meter, so they're demanding payment off me - and they're not showing any direct debit payments from me, just the tokens on the meter-I-no-longer-had. Indeed, that I never had a direct debit set up.

Good news - ScottishPower demanded payment in May-ish 07, more than 12 months after I closed the account. So that cuts it to £70 straight off, provably. And now I have to go to my bank and get statements printed off showing I was in fact paying them.

FOR FUCK'S FUCKING SAKE.

The nice man, who I was very polite with to start with before he started saying I'd never had a direct debit, has gone off to speak to someone or other, and will also be definitely really ringing me back within 20 minutes (no offense myoptika, I just didn't much faith in call centres or energy companies before this started. And thanks).

Well, at least you're getting somewhere now.

Do you not keep your bank statements, then?

Result! Liason Thingy Guy was, when Nice Operator Man finally got through to him, able to figure out that the prepayment stuff is a complete fuck-up, so that's cut straight off the "debt", and they admit I was paying £14 a month now, so Nice Operator Man is recalling it from the collectors to adjust it, and I am to ring him tomorrow or Monday*. At this point I'm prepared to admit that the DD and final bill was possibly off because of the intermingling; we shall see when he gives me a figure and his workings-out.

I think I might owe Mypsywypsy a pint or two.

* He was going to ring me, but I get shit mobile reception at work so he gave me a direct dial.

Huzzah! Glad to have been of service.

G-Unit - I'm on paper-free banking, and never remember to manually archive them (download PDFs). Then they delete the online statements after a year or so. Halifax is shit, I need to find a better bank, etc, etc.

Besides, this is 2.5 years ago, and keeping such things for more than 2 is a bit daft*, frankly.

* OKAY YES it would be FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC to have them now.

Are you mental? Do you want tezzorizts to have sex with your children*?


* hypothetical children in your case, but imagine the spider is your offspring. That must have been unpleasant, eh shin? Congratulations! It's a massive fuck off spider coming out of .... [snip - Ed]

I don't keep any bills or stements longer than 12 months.

Just takes up room

I've got every bank statement stretching back to 1999. Don't know why, but I guess I'm going to have to have a clear out soon otherwise I'm going to drown in a mountain of paper.

Also, what an unpleasant mental image. You've made me think of The Fly II and frankly, that's an offence punishable by death.

I used to keep everything for 3 years, but each time I've moved recently I've reduced it by a year, I'm currently aiming at a year-ish (I don't go through every month chucking out, just en masse culls every 12-18 months). And like I say, it's paper-free where possible - I think all my banking is now, and the council tax.

Shin looks nothing like Eric Stoltz, though. Well, up top at least.

i used to be the same, untill I moved house, then got rid of everything more than 12 months old. I think i killed a shreder

The banks keep the statements, so I don't have too

I'll sow* myself up I think

*sew

What the hell is wrong with me today

He said a spider, not a pig.

I could crossbreed them and star in a new Simpsons movie.

Hooray! A different E.On representative, because Nice Operator Man isn't in and wasn't contactable when he said I should be trying, now says that despite the account being rebuilt with the prepayment stuff taken off, I still owe £155 - but that it's best we just wait for Nice Operator Man to get back in, so she'll email him for when he's back.

So I'm back to square one, and having to call the Halifax to get copies of statements sent out to me. Maybe it's time to get in touch with Energywatch as well.

Have you followed the route in that link I gave you to its conclusion?

Don't be daft, I stopped when I got to the phone number. I suppose I'll wait and see what happens when Nice Operator Man gets back to me before progressing to step 2, especially as I bet the Halifax will want many pounds to print off statements.

(The very first thing we tried to transfer to the new house - the landline - was fucked up royally by BT last night. I am Stressed again, I absolutely cannot deal with all this shit)

Send them an invoice for the time you've spent wasting dealing with their mistakes, and suggest they simply write off your debt in return for you writing off said invoice.

I think this is relevant for the next time I speak to them - specifically, "Electricity (home)", "Billing errors", "Back-billing / catch up bill received", or this horrible URL if it's not session limited.As ScottishPower didn't submit the pre-payment meter misdirection form thing until more than a year after I closed the account to leave the property, and that itself is more than a year ago*, I don't think I'm being unreasonable in thinking they can please to be leaving me alone now (E.On is a listed-prominent member of the ERA).

* Funnily enough, just before July 2007, although as I wasn't contacted until mid-2008 and they knew I wasn't at the old place, I think I'm right in thinking they can't say they'd billed me back then.

Nice Operator Man rang - apparently they very definitely sent me (and have 'proof' of doing so) a final bill a week or two after I closed the account telling me I owe £44, so the back-billing rules don't apply, even though they knew I'd closed the account because of selling the property. That I never received the bill, despite an active mail redirect, is also allegedly of no consequence.

That doesn't sound right, does it? Especially as they've apparently never chased me for that, or for £155 + £44, only the £155 of misdirected payments. He even tried to explain some of the outstanding balance as standing charge for the prepayment meter!

They insist they hadn't received a direct debit from me since the previous July. I have no bank statements yet, so I can't say whether or not my bank took money out of my account. I don't really understand why E.On never took money they were supposed to, unless I cancelled it. Which I don't remember.

They also insist that the unprofessional, aggressive and probably-illegal conduct of their appointed enforcement agency is nothing to do with them. Which also sounds like a lie; it certainly should be. No possibility of a reduction for time, effort, stress, anything. I owe £44 for £44 of electricity used-not-paid, simple as that.

I should really proceed to step 2 (talking to a manager), shouldn't I? It suddenly seems like an awful lot of effort now it's for "only" £44 though - especially as they have seemingly tried to be actually helpful (and I did end the call by thanking him for believing me enough to go away and figure out what exactly the fuck went on with that fucking prepayment meter, knocking £110 off the "debt").

That and I am a bit suspicious that I did actually cancel the direct debit because of intending to sell, and that I may have missed the missing final bill on that one account of many I was closing/transferring/opening over the months; I am generally catastrophically poor on the memory front, and pre-redundancy work was being a soul-crippling nightmare that whole half year.

Oh, and so far BT and Tesco Credit Card/RBS have fucked up in the move I'm going through now, with plenty of other stuff to come (including the utilities). Do I want to add to my stress?

If they've sent you a bill for £44 then I'd just pay it and dispute the rest, tbh.

Oh, they're not after the £155 now - that's gone, they're sending me a new final bill for £44, which should include the unpaid usage/charges that result in it.

Then pay it. It's not that much money and they sound like they're in the right, to be honest. I've had post go missing due to redirections and it's most likely to be Royal Mail's fault.

I know the systems and they do have proof when they've sent bills out. It's all audited and they can't change it, so they're not lying.

We used to doctor the ones at Eastern Energy on a daily basis. T'was a long time ago, though.

My saga with npower looks set to continue, despite never having set up an account with them, despite never having used any electricity during the period they think I was with them.

I received the following bill today.



Can anyone spot the logical inconsistency?

525KWH is a lot to use in one day, admittedly.

yes. I agree. Were you resurrecting corpses and couldn't wait for the lightning?

I'm right in thinking that they couldn't enforce this bill, even if it was valid, because they're billing more than one year after the period stated in the bill?

Seriously, I've rung them more than once and explained the situation about how I OWE THEM NOTHING. The bloke on the phone told me a supervisor would investigate and then ring me within 5 days.

He didn't. Since then I've received another final reminder, and a threatening letter from a generic (npower-owned, no doubt) debt collector demanding the final amount, and now this, demanding more.

These people are just fucking cunts. They going to keep trying it on, and trying it on until I either pay or set them all on fire. They know they're in the fucking wrong but continuously hope I somehow won't realise and pay them 170 fucking quid I don't owe them.

I had a similar situation with United Utilties. After we moved out of our flat I transferred all the bills to the house, no bother. 2 years later, out of the blue, on my mobile, AT WORK, I get a very aggressive phone call from a debt collection agency asking for nearly £1200 (!) in water bills for the old address. Turns out the guy who moved in after us nevrr bothered to tell UU that he was there, mine was the last name on the address so they chased me. I was obviously furious and very hostile to the debt collectors and coveyed this by swearing down the phone to them. It tooks months of phone calls to UU (by the way, how are you expected to prove that you've moved OUT of a property. I could prove moving into the flat and into the house, but there's no way of proving you've moved out. wankers) before I could stop the debt collectors calling my mobile. Months later, the bastards rand me again, with the same fucking issue! This time I threatened to call the police for harrasment, they checked the file, humbly apologised, grovelled and NEVER CALLED BACK. Woe betide them if they do. WOE!

Having just rung the bastards back, and explained once again why I'm not their customer, evidenced by the fact they haven't spelled my surname correctly and don't even know my first name, the nice lady on the phone made a further note on my account and again referred it to their 'back office' for resolution.

She couldn't give me a resolution date, but tried to assure me it'd be sorted. So it's back to ignoring the threatening letters and waiting for something else to happen. Perhaps I'll stockpile some petrol in the meantime, just in case.

but not diesel

Jesus.

Which reminds me, Nice Operator Man has apparently not properly caused the new final bill for £44 to be sent to me. I should chase that up, so I can scratch it off the list (until next time).

Well, after successfully clearing that up*, now United Utilities have finally come back to us about the water they stopped charging us for without telling us (direct debit cancelled without a letter) in 2006.

Because we had the temerity to have to move before they completed their monitoring to back-date on actual usage, they've now applied the national average over the two years resulting in a £562 adjustment, so minus the £173 credit we ended up in before they realised they were fucking up - £390 owed.

Merry Christmas!

How's it going for you, Comical?

* Oh, I never mentioned it: I rang up to check where my bill was, the woman said she'd get another sent out. Then she rang me back a couple of hours later - because I had an online account back then, the system generated an online final bill to the account I no longer have. No wonder I didn't get it. Then, because it was an online account, the system was literally preventing her getting a paper one generated, so I had to pay by credit card over the phone and she sent a letter confirming payment and final resolution. Good grief.

Well, if this just doesn't FUCKING WELL take the cake.

After receiving yet another threatening reminder for this £170 I don't owe, I rang them AGAIN to ask them what the fuck they were up to, and this time I got a right little cunt on the phone who very shirtily insisted that 'as a result of their investigation' I do in fact owe them this money, because:

* I didn't contact them with a meter reading when I moved in (WHY WOULD I WHEN I WASN'T THEIR CUSTOMER?)
* They reckon they have me on the basis of a 'presumed contract' (DESPITE NOT EVEN KNOWING MY NAME PROPERLY)
* They insist I can't prove I hadn't moved in before December 2006, and because I didn't provide them with a meter reading they've had to 'estimate' DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE METER READING IS IDENTICAL TO THE ONE I GAVE MY REAL ENERGY COMPANY WHEN I CHANGED SUPPLIERS PRIOR TO MOVING IN.

So, because I've been wrangling with these fuckers for over two years now, I've asked for a copy of everything they hold about me under the DPA, but I've been told I have to put it in writing.

I've also rung consumer direct for advice. I now have to write a letter to npower's complaints departments and set out my complaint in writing (SIGH) and wait for a response. If they *then* refuse to play ball I go back to Consumer Direct for further advice.

When I had this problem with Scottish Power, threatening them with a DPA request finally made them fuck off. In that case, they were trying to charge me for electricity for a nearby derelict house that nobody's lived in since the late 60s.