Be Excellent To Each Other

Finished Watchmen last night, after some kindly forumite (who, fucking unforgivably, I can't remember the name of*) sent it to me for my Birthday.

It started off good, then dipped into "quite good" for the middle, then back up to "good" toward then end, then went to "holy fucking shit-buggery this is one of the best things I've ever read" for the last to chapters.

God fucking damn it's a good book! I'm off to investigate the film now, to see who is playing who.

*I think it was Lave. Cheers Lave!

Squee!

I started reading that in Waterstones the other day, and I may go back and buy it next week. It was brilliant.

The art style isn't *quite* to my liking, but the story started off very well indeed.

Also - you've reminded me to do something.... *rustle rustle*

Having read the book I can only imagine the film to be shockingly bad now. The art style in it I particularly liked.

@Mr Chris: You can have a lend of my copy if you want - just come to London for the BBBC and fetch it

Not in front of the children.

The film looks amazing. If it is as good an adaptation as LOTR was, then I'll be a happy bunny.

The first Graphic Novel I ever read. That's Watchmen that is. If you don't count the Batman Graphic Novelisation from 1989. Which you probably do.

Anyway, Watchmen. Excellent. At points I actually forgot that I was reading a book and got totally immersed in the story. Scary that. I do that with subtitled films as well. I forgot that Pan's Labyrinth was in spanish and recommened it to my mum (who's not good with the subtitles) and she rang me up and complained. I honestly forgot I was reading subtitles after about 10 minutes.

Anyway, Watchmen (grr). Loved the characters, especially the second nite-owl. He's such a soft lad for most of the book when he finally get's his act together I felt great for him. Got a bit of a belly too, like me!

I'm not sure how they'll portray the pirate comic-book Bernie was reading.
Did that have something to do with the 'real' story that I missed?

Ha. That's very kind and I'd love to, but not going to happen, unfortunately.

I never really got on with Watchmen, much preferring Moore's V for Vendetta from around that time. (Personally, I always thought Moore's shorts for 2000 AD were his best work, though.) Still an engrossing read, though.

As for the film, there was a good single-page text feature in this month's Judge Dredd Megazine, asking why everyone's so obsessed with direct translations, when just keeping the spirit would be more successful and also enable the story to be updated. Frankly, I can't see how Watchmen can work at all in two hours, but a Watchmen film could have done. Still, we shall see.

It's not in the movie proper. It will be on the DVD as an animated film, with Gerard Butler doing the voice of the sailor.

The narrator of the Black Freighter is thematically linked to Veidt -- doing anything he can, telling himself the ends justify the means, and that it'll all come out good in the end. In the narrator's case, not so good. In Veidt's case, also probably not so good, based on Doctor Manhatten's final frame.

It's kind of a parallel story to the main plot. About how people can be led into doing horrible things when after convincing themselves it's the right thing to do. Except the guy in the story realises his mistake and stops short of disaster. That's what I thought anyway

edit - Beaten to the punch

Uhh, he does murder two people on the beach for their horses, so not that short!

ZOMG SPOILERS. You bastards.

I don't think you can make Watchmen work without the imminent threat of nuclear apocalypse though, the whole plot turns on that aspect, so I think that needs to be preserved. Beyond that I think updating is OK. Note the costume changes.


Maybe. I'd have said the same about LA Confidential though.

Ah, but as far as I can tell, he doesn't murder his wife. I thought that would be the breaking point for him.

Note the subtitle, sir.

W'eva.

I'm busy. I can't be reading subtitles.

Is this by any chance available in novelised form? While I love the themes in a lot of graphic novels, I really can't abide the format. My mind is invariably a better artist, see?

Hurrah for Grim...!

Yes, it is awesome. I keep forgetting how awesome, just because its raved about so much and instinct tells me to downplay it.

As a senior library assistant I am now contractually obliged to recommend further comix reading:

Art Spiegelman - Maus

Pulitzer Prize winning. Art gets his dad to talk about his surviving of the holocaust, at the same time, Art tries to survive his dad's strange, obsessive, miserly personality and come to terms with how its mildly screwed him up. Arguably the best graphic novel ever written and drawn. Funny, sad, beautiful, horrifying - its everything. You owe it to yourself to read it, the Primo Levi of comics.

From Hell - Alan Moore

Arguably Moore's best work. All about Jack the Ripper, but it is much more than that - it covers Victorian morbidity, the birth of the 20th century and the gutter press and synchronicity. Chilling, gripping and with a grimy beauty. Eddie Campbell's idiosyncratic skritchy-skratchy menacing ink style is to comics what David Lynch is to film.

The Ballard Halo Jones - Alan Moore

My personal fave of Moore's. Halo Jones is an unemployed girl of the far future, stuck on 'the hoop', a floating island of the unemployable anchored off New York. One day she escapes and heads into space. Robot dogs, luxury star-liners, genderless nobodies and an amazingly grim space-war are just some of the wonders and horrors she drifts through. For many years, outside of the Hernandez Bros. creations, the only decent feminist hero. As such 2000AD readers predictably didn't like her at the time.

The Sandman - Neil Gaiman

At first glance it may appear to have dated badly. Bowie/Robert Smith lookalike God of Dreams moping about? Supervillian stole his dream dust? A cameo by the Martian Manhunter and Arkham Asylum? Really bad art by Sam Keith? (Who was admittedly so good with The Maxx) What gubbins is this? Still, it quickly hooks you and the opening story is like a spooky MR James tale. By book 2 it sheds the bad art and begins to acquire form and style, building up into something gloriously meta about Gods and storytelling and human need. By book 3 you're in utter love with Morpheus. By book 5 you love everyone, including the villains. By the last book, you're crying. Raved about by Norman Mailer, Charles Shaar Murrey, Stephen King and Roger Zelanzey for a reason.

There's more. But I have to go for my break now.

I really hope they get Rorschach's voice works, 'cos I always thought it a little weedy, tremulous and scratchy voice. I am reasonably excited, however.

You're very wrong here. Watchmen was explicitly written to be a graphic novel: something that cannot be done in other artforms. For example, repeated visual motifs or structures or symmetry communicate themes through the art, but can only be spotted with non linear reading. You're supposed to go "wait...", flip back a few pages, notice the connection, then say "ah yes".

Not seen the trailer? It ends with the quote "And I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'" in a Sin City style growl.

Ah. That's a shame.

No, true, he doesn't but it is too late and he is damned anyway; he ends up on the Freighter. Which, metaphorically, is where Veidt is going.

I bought a slightly tatty copy of Watchmen from WH Smith's with my first week's wage from my first job. I read the bugger in one go, completely unable to put it down until I was finished - about 3 in the morning on a school night. My God, I love it so.

My hopes for the film aren't high, for all that a lot of the pictures we've seen of it so far look like a Dave Gibbons illustration come to life. If they keep the wonderful opening of the comic intact - a slow pull-back from the blood-splashed badge with the Taxi Driver-esque narration from Rorschach's journal - I think I'm probably willing to forgive anything else.

I'd add Hellboy, Lucifer, Usagi Yojimbo and probably Strontium Dog from 2000 AD to the 'read these' pile.

I read it on Boxing Day last year, after getting it for Christmas. I had to work really hard to slow myself down and soak in the art, because my instinct was to tear through it as fast as possible.

True. Although, the narrator didn't for example

It's been years since I read this. I seem to recall at the time struggling a little through the pages of novelised text as they weren't as immediate as the story itself, which was marvellous.

However, that may or may not have been down to whatever mood I was in at the time. Either way, it's fabulous, and I am going to re-read it shortly (once I've finished re-reading 'Spares' by Michael Marshall Smith).

Here is the trailer.

I read it all, one sitting whilst ill. I love to read books in one long sitting (sometimes sitting on the loo, oh, my numb legs), I tend to lose myself in the text and get really disoriented when I snap back

I recognise practically every frame of that trailer from the book (apart from the exploding shop).
Motherfucker, that looks good.

Swamp Thing. Astro City especially the first collection, Life In The Big City. The Invisibles, until it completely loses its mind about halfway through volume 2. Transmetropolitan. Preacher - Garth Ennis is the Quentin Tarantino of comics. He's got one schtick that got pretty old pretty quickly, but Preacher is his Pulp Fiction.

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/article/wa ... omparison/

That's awesome. Even though I do like accurate transfers, I would like there to be a few suprises in there. Nothing major, just a small treat for those of us who've read the book and know that story. A bit of forshadowing perhaps?

And I love that they make Dr Manhatten wear pants to slaughter VC

I don't see anything special in that trailer other than yet another too dark to see anything happening superhero film. They've got a hell of a job to do with the film and from everything I've seen and read about it it's seeming like they haven't done one.

I can't help thinking they've made it just too dark teen angsty.

I hope that extra B isn't for BYOBB?

It's the Beardy Beardy Beer Club.

Bring Your Own Beer/Beard.

Sorry, the thread only says Beardy Beer and I'm not cliquey enough to have been before.



I was actually going for the Simpsons 'It's a typo' joke.

I know you were. With Joans stock at an all time low, Simpsons quotes are about all we can look forward to now.

Have you not? Why do I think you have?

But when used appropriately they could have a devastatingly positive effect on my stock levels.
Still, I guess now's the time to buy.



Well we met in Nottingham, but I don't think that was a beardy beer outing (just a beer outing).
I did mumble something about it being too much hassle to get to the last one, but you said that was no excuse (presumably because you'd already organised to come to Nottingham, which would be about the same level of hassle).

Speaking of which my Library Edition Vol. II has just been despatched, quite excited.

I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude, I think we're still in a Joans bear market for now. I'm not sure it's bottomed out yet.

Some of Moores newer stuff is also very splendid, thinking of Top10 & Promethea.

Someone must have mentioned League of extraordinary gentlemen (The physical binding/design of the hardback edition of the black Dossier is a work of art on its own).

And Cerebus for all round epicness, got a bit 'interesting' towards the end though.

They look lovely, and I think the first two will be on my Christmas list this year.

As for new Moore, some of it's good—LoEG and Top Ten, in particular—but some of it is dreadful, like the second volume of Tomorrow Stories, which is borderline unreadable.

Another one for the 'ooooh' pile: We3.

I must try some of these - I managed to ration myself a little with Watchmen, reading a chapter or less at the time, because I was loving it so much. Was ever so pleased to see Grim... had it on his wish list, but my best intentions were far too slow and someone got there before me. Still, out of every mention of it comes some good recommendations (thanks, Senior Library Assistant Grandee) so all is well.

Just finished reading Watchmen and it was staggeringly good. I'd read V for Vendetta and wasn't blown away, but Watchmen is something else. Now I'm reading Swamp Thing, which doesn't really compare. I'd forgotten about From Hell, that's definitely next on the list

Sigh

"Watch the Watchmen trailer and be very confused. Is it a film about 38 super-powered people? Do female superheroes have super bladder control? Was that Batman in there? Anna Pickard hopes the Watchmen film will explain all - the trailer certainly didn't"