Be Excellent To Each Other

Because the dilemma is for tomorrow, once we know who puts their hand up and says "I've been bitten".

For today, [vote:nolynch]

Losing a VH, especially if he's the only one, could be the absolute death of this town.

1 - Strongly disagree

If the childe kills, the unless our town has zero Van Helsings, the vampire clan will never grow, as with only one bitten person per round, we can protect the bitten person (or the SK/Vig can just kill them if they're feeling mean).

If the vamps recruit via misdirection, then they can start messing about with killings. For the time being they're fairly safe unless we get very lucky.

I will stop now though, lest I give the evil fiends too many ideas.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Were you in there because of the "FREE BLOOD HERE!!" sign on the outside, eh?

Because, you know, I'm not sure anyone realised it, but that was a CUNNING TRAP. You see, vampires like blood, so they'd be attracted to a place offering free blood. Like I said, CUNNING.

We've got double the odds of hitting a vamp though.

Unless there are two VHs, of course.

Damn these confuding rules.

[vote:nolynch]
Now that Mr Russ has backed down

Oh, of course you're right. I hadn't thought that through. Maybe that's because I'm a simple be-smocked villager, and you're an EVIL VAMPIRE.

Because if only one person gets bitten and says something, any VH in town is bound to protect that one person and the vamps can't multiply. If two people get bitten, then the VH (s) has to make a choice.

Pretty much the only chance the vampires have of multiplying tomorrow is for both to bite tonight, so far as I can see it.

But with 20-odd townies, they've got a fair while to get the biting done.

Do they have to bite twice, or two nights in a row?

2 in a row.

Just twice, I think. I'm glad I'm not trying to keep track of all this.

*Malc peers up at Rev. Owen*

Washat? Why'd I wanna drink blood, buddy? I mean...

*Malc peers past Rev. Owen at the clock tower*

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! THERE'SH A FUCKING DEAD GUY UP THERE!

*runs back into saloon*

Ignore me (again) I obviously can't read.

There are up to 5 investigate-y roles amoung the townies. If the vamps drag their heels too much they're going to get found out, and given the massive townie majority (and the fact that there are at least two co-ordinated blocs of townie votes in the preist-VH axis and the Masons) there's no real way they can protect themselves against a lynch in the early-middle game.

The vamps have to bite early and bite often or they're in big trouble.

No, two nights in a row. And I have an UBER SPREADSHEET OF DOOM to keep track of stuff.

I'm glad I went back through and added some variability to the numbers of the roles. It has spiced things up nicely.

Time for an update:

Vote Update

craster: 1 vote (mr chris)
mr russ: 3 votes (kalmar, lacesensor, the rev owen)
rodafowa: 1 vote (vegetables)
nolynch: 9 votes (craster, curiosity, grim..., joans, mr russ, myoptika, rodafowa, runcle, zardoz)

Not voted: bluecup, bobbyaro, dimrill, dudley, kevr, malc74, mr dave

With 21 players alive, 11 votes are required for a lynch and 16 votes for there to be no lynch.

*sharpens huge fuck off cleavers*
Ah excellent, the 2 bitey thing means that it's harder for the vamps to make mince meat out of us. Ooh! SPECIAL ON MEAT! MINCED!

There's no way I'm voting to do anything this early.

*Starts making his costume for the BBC dance*

Why is no-one else planning a party in this town?

I think sir would look rather fetching in my new line of fancy dress.

Ooh very good question. I thought it was just two times.

"on the second consecutive night" means it's in a row though.
That helps.

I will do this now.

The thing is that while we're far less likely to hit scum than town, the payoff if we do hit scum is massively higher than the cost we incur if we hit non-VHpreist town, and slightly higher than if we do hit that. That alone complicates the stats argument- we've been arguing as to what's most likely to happen as opposed to our most beneficial move. Given our chance of winning increases hugely if we do hit scum, and doesn't lower substantially if we don't, it's not at all obvious that No Lynching is a good idea.

This is because the vampires are really fucking powerful in this game. There is almost nobody they can't recruit, they have a mass roleblock ability that can double as a cop ability to an extent and totally cripple the town and they can use their biting ability to inflict total confusion and chaos to the voting patterns. The fact you've all been talking up the thread about how the town "shouldn't try and play to change alignment" brings home that there's a lot of incentive for them to do so- the vamps don't have to get very large before being on their side becomes an attractive proposition. Basically, they get very dangerous very rapidly, and that increases the payoff if we lynch one vastly.

So I suppose I could replace the many advantages with one: we are more likely to win the game if we lynch than if we don't. That's quite a good reason, really.

It's worth noting that the SK isn't pro-town like he has been in past games. He doesn't need to eliminate the vamps to win, and in fact his job is made easier if he's bitten and recruited.

Oh, hang on, I didn't see that "twice consecutively" thing. That makes them extremely weak, and changes things.

[Vote: Unvote]

*peers out from underneath table in saloon*

I (hic!) don't think we should be killin' anyone man. I (buuurrrrrpppp!) vote for that no lynch thingammajigger.

*Finds couple of old peanuts on the floor*

Hey man, thingsh are lookin' up already!

[vote:nolynch]

I think the problem with voting is that there could potentially be as few as 2 bad guys out there, and as many as 5 townies that we don't want to kill (not including up to 4 masons), so we're more likely to hit one of those than a vampire. The only problem is, I'm not too sure what the night stage is going to tell us apart from whether or not there's a serial killer or a vigilante.

If nothing else, we'll see how many (if any) people come forwards and say that they've been bitten...

yeah thatll be interesting.

I presume I am correct in assuming that the childer and sire might use this ploy of feigning a bite in order to gain "protection" leaving their real targets free to be re-bitten the following night.

If there is only one Van Halen, this is an even better tactic.

Well, we know there's two vampires, so if the people that get bitten agree with the reasons for saying they were bitten, then we'll get 2 people. If the Childe kills instead, then we'll know about it. If one of the bites fails, then we've got at least one of Van Helsing, Priest, Loon, Vigilante, but we don't know which one.

But every single one of those is very unlikely to come forward and say they've been bitten-but-it-failed, surely? Except the loon, who would just lie.

If a bite fails, I don't think the bite targets know someone tried to bite them.

That's what I was saying, if only 1 person says they were bitten, we can probably assume (but not necessarily) that the other bite was blocked (unless the Childe used kill action, but we'll see this, unless it was also blocked).
It was only going to give us an idea of the numbers, rather than who everyone is, but if they do bite Van Halen (I fully support referring to them like this), then there's no harm in him saying he was bitten (although not revealing his role), because the vampires will know who he is anyway because they targetted him.

Uh....

From the Sire role



The way I understand it, a Childe can bite those protected roles, so they won't know if they targetted one of them unless the Sire does it himself.

Oh.

Um, anyone for a tasty pretzel? Mr Russ didn't seem to want his.

GAAAAAAAYWOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!

We need you!

I'll have one.

MR GM PERSON DOESN'T KNOW HIS OWN RULES. Sorry 'bout that. Yes, as my rules state, the Sire or a Childe tries to bite one of the roles that is unbiteable, the target gets a warning that someone came for them. Assume they leave a telltale at their room at home before they go out a'wandering.

They don't get a warning if the Sire or Childe is roleblocked though, and the Vigilante's Tail power counts as a roleblock against biting (as biting is all stealthy like, you can't do it if you're being watched). It doesn't count as a roleblock against the other night actions mind.

Edit to add:
No. The Bite ability works the same way for Childe and Sire.

Here you go.

::hands Joans a garlic-covered pretzel and looks for any signs of sleight of hand suggesting it may be palmed off into a sleeve instead of being eaten::

::jumps across a running river::

I've just realised Dimrill may be trying to imply that he's masons with me, making us "meat and vegetables". This is not the case.

This is all very confusing.

I'm just going to stop answering rule related questions today. In my defence it doesn't say this in the Childe role, and I thought it might make sense to allow the Childe to think they'd got a successful (but ineffective) bite on one of the protected roles, so they couldn't identify them. The other roles do make it clear that they can't be affected by Childe or Sire though, sorry again everyone.



*Bites deliberately into garlic-covered pretzel as The Rev Owen watches on and proceeds to eat every last bit.*
"Very tasty"
*Wanders off to breathe on various people and try to work out if their reaction is just a natural one to my garlic breath or something more sinister*

Hey! Someone's broken the mirror in my bedroom!

::runs across the house::

And in my bathroom too!

::runs into and out of various houses all across town::

Well, I surprised Dimrill on the toilet and now my eyes will never been clean again. Unspeakable horror! But I've checked and it seems that every mirror in town has been broken.

Curse those vampires! They were going to feature in my next CUNNING PLAN after my questionnaire.

If it helps, I totally agree my rules were badly worded there. But hey, that's what VampireScum 2.0 is for.

You are however an excellent crime fighting duo.

::kneels down with dustpan and brush and starts sweeping up mirror shards::

Oooh, my back's not up to this. Bloody vampires.

I don't imply anything. Look at my missus' beef curtains!

They're welcome to, and the Serial Killer will be welcome to bump the Childe off in the night!