Grim... wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Like Luke not leaving foot prints in the salt
Which contradicts the physical weight of the dice ornament he bought back.
I liked the film, but it was just... Messy. And the "Empire can't shoot straight" thing is wearing fucking thin.
Also: isn't the Falcon meant to be considerably bigger than the TIE fighters that were chasing it?
Good point about the dice.
I think if I have one concern from the movie, it’s that they are very much doing them one by one without a unified vision behind them. Whilst this allows for the individual writer/director to really make the film their own, it means you can get retcons and things that look important becoming meaningless.
For instance, in 9 JJ Abrams could bring Snoke back, bring Luke back, give Rey important parents and so on. There were parts that Abrams clearly wanted to build on that Johnson didn’t. And while I think that most of the decisions in TLJ regarding direction of plot were solid and I like them, it does make for a kind of disjoint, though I also agree with the comedy rant Kov posted.
For instance, in 9 JJ Abrams could bring Snoke back, bring Luke back, give Rey important parents and so on. There were parts that Abrams clearly wanted to build on that Johnson didn’t. And while I think that most of the decisions in TLJ regarding direction of plot were solid and I like them, it does make for a kind of disjoint, though I also agree with the comedy rant Kov posted.
I listened to am an interview with the director and he worked with JJ to do the initial out line with TLJ, i don't think they will bring the dead back, as the fans would implode.
Went to see it last night. Found myself getting a bit bored about 2/3rds of the way through, but tbh that's pretty standard for Star Wars films (for me)
Further thoughts (mostly negative, unfortunately)
Despite all that, it was enjoyable enough. I maintain that I really don't get why everyone creams their pants over Star Wars movies though.
Further thoughts (mostly negative, unfortunately)
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Despite all that, it was enjoyable enough. I maintain that I really don't get why everyone creams their pants over Star Wars movies though.
GazChap wrote:
The audio (lack of it, specifically) and the visual when the cruiser hyperspaces through Snoke's ship was fucking amazing
Yes, indeed - that was this movie's equivalent of the "Vadar arrives and starts fucking shit up" moment from Rogue One. Although it opens up a massive plot hole.
I am ambivalent to Star Wars generally so obviously wasn't expecting to be super thrilled and exciting, but I thought the film was meh.
The only bit that made me smile was the
Also can't believe people didn't spot Ade Edmondson
The only bit that made me smile was the
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
)Also can't believe people didn't spot Ade Edmondson
On that topic, until it was made clear that
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
GazChap wrote:
Further thoughts (mostly negative, unfortunately)
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Despite all that, it was enjoyable enough. I maintain that I really don't get why everyone creams their pants over Star Wars movies though.
Some responses from how I took it:
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
It’s obviously a film with lots of flaws, but I really liked it, and I liked it diverging from the old template whilst keeping enough of the old ways about it.
Curiosity wrote:
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Re: the hyperspace thing:
(1) Doing that with a large ship as a standard way of attacking would be a massive, massive waste. The Alliance has always been short on materiél so using a massive cruiser as a weapon is not really sustainable.
(2) Whilst in theory it breaks the bit where Han jumped into hyperspace in the Falcon inside the large freighter's cargo bay in Force Awakens, I'm going to be kind and assume that she jimmied the hyperspace to instead stay in real space as it accelerated.
(3) Rule of Cool applies here.
(4) However they should have got 3PO to do it, the useless c*nt.
(1) Doing that with a large ship as a standard way of attacking would be a massive, massive waste. The Alliance has always been short on materiél so using a massive cruiser as a weapon is not really sustainable.
(2) Whilst in theory it breaks the bit where Han jumped into hyperspace in the Falcon inside the large freighter's cargo bay in Force Awakens, I'm going to be kind and assume that she jimmied the hyperspace to instead stay in real space as it accelerated.
(3) Rule of Cool applies here.
(4) However they should have got 3PO to do it, the useless c*nt.
That defence is clearly nonsense. If the rebels were doing this, they’d just have a big asteroid with an FTL drive glued on and a droid pilot. You wouldn’t have to use actual ships. And given how it trashed that massive ship — and given how readily the Imperials recognised the threat, so this is clearly a well understood phenomena — I don’t understand why this wouldn’t be the go-to tactic for taking out any capital ships.
This is an enormous plot hole.
This is an enormous plot hole.
3) wasn't cool, it was cringey.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
That defence is clearly nonsense. If the rebels were doing this, they’d just have a big asteroid with an FTL drive glued on and a droid pilot. You wouldn’t have to use actual ships. And given how it trashed that massive ship — and given how readily the Imperials recognised the threat, so this is clearly a well understood phenomena — I don’t understand why this wouldn’t be the go-to tactic for taking out any capital ships.
This is an enormous plot hole.
This is an enormous plot hole.
The ship was low on fuel. It was going to be abandoned anyway. It had one jump left.
Um... Thanks?
KovacsC wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
That defence is clearly nonsense. If the rebels were doing this, they’d just have a big asteroid with an FTL drive glued on and a droid pilot. You wouldn’t have to use actual ships. And given how it trashed that massive ship — and given how readily the Imperials recognised the threat, so this is clearly a well understood phenomena — I don’t understand why this wouldn’t be the go-to tactic for taking out any capital ships.
This is an enormous plot hole.
This is an enormous plot hole.
The ship was low on fuel. It was going to be abandoned anyway. It had one jump left.
That's irrelevant. If it was full and had a brand new paint job it would still have been worth trading it for the massive enemy ship.
In fact, if they'd done it at the start with the Nebulon-B Frigate, the others could have all just jumped away.
Newton's second law suggests they could easily have done it with an X-Wing.
They could also have done it against both Death Stars and the Starkiller Base. Almost half of all Star Wars films have revolved around “how do we destroy this massive thing” and we’re supposed to believe no-one has considered weaponised hyperdrives before?
Also, you now can't travel from point A to point B without checking to see if you're going to smack into a moon on the way.
Christ, hit a coin that someone dropped in space and it's going to turn your ship inside out.
Christ, hit a coin that someone dropped in space and it's going to turn your ship inside out.
Grim... wrote:
Also, you now can't travel from point A to point B without checking to see if you're going to smack into a moon on the way.
Christ, hit a coin that someone dropped in space and it's going to turn your ship inside out.
Christ, hit a coin that someone dropped in space and it's going to turn your ship inside out.
Not necessarily - it could have been as it was accelerating into hyperspace, not when it was actually in hyperspace.
And yet when I nitpick about how the zombies survive through winter in TWD it's being silly and not enjoying the experience.
Giphy "clutching at straws":
https://media0.giphy.com/media/r1wowvZiCQR7W/giphy-loop.mp4
https://media0.giphy.com/media/r1wowvZiCQR7W/giphy-loop.mp4
Mate. It's science fiction.
MrChris wrote:
Mate. It's science fiction.
I would contend that any sort of fiction has to make an effort to create a consistent world that makes sense on its own terms, science fiction or otherwise.
I don't see the 'winter zombie conundrum' as being much different from the 'weaponised hyperdrive problem'.
Hearthly wrote:
And yet when I nitpick about how the zombies survive through winter in TWD it's being silly and not enjoying the experience.
You're comparing it with real life though. We're comparing TLJ with its own in-universe consistency.
MrChris wrote:
Mate. It's science fiction.
So internal consistency doesn’t matter?
Grim... wrote:
Also, you now can't travel from point A to point B without checking to see if you're going to smack into a moon on the way.
Christ, hit a coin that someone dropped in space and it's going to turn your ship inside out.
Christ, hit a coin that someone dropped in space and it's going to turn your ship inside out.
That was already (film) canon:
Han Solo: “Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?”
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Mate. It's science fiction.
So internal consistency doesn’t matter?
Like, if Luke had missed his last shot during the trench run and then pulled a twenty ton SuperMegaForceBomb out of his pocket that he’d had all along and never mentioned and used that to blow up the Death Star, then that’s all cool because “Mate, it’s science fiction”?
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Also, you now can't travel from point A to point B without checking to see if you're going to smack into a moon on the way.
Christ, hit a coin that someone dropped in space and it's going to turn your ship inside out.
Christ, hit a coin that someone dropped in space and it's going to turn your ship inside out.
That was already (film) canon:
Han Solo: “Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?”
Oh, then IV fucks up, not XIII.
You'd think he would have mentioned the twenty ton supermegaforcebomb.
Grim... wrote:
Oh, then IV fucks up, not XIII.
Nah, they've got particle shielding which fixes your 2p coming problem, but not your star or fucking big spaceship problem
Cras wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Oh, then IV fucks up, not XIII.
Nah, they've got particle shielding which fixes your 2p coming problem, but not your star or fucking big spaceship problem
Right, but the plot hole of "if your ship still obeys physical laws in hyperspace why isn't everyone weaponising hyperdrives" exists from the start.
Yes, and that I 100% agree with.
Hyperdrives do cut out if they sense a gravity well, that's the principle interdictor cruisers work on, but I'm not sure if they're canon any more. I guess if they were then the empire would just have brought one along to the rebel base and that would have been a short old film.
Cras wrote:
You'd think he would have mentioned the twenty ton supermegaforcebomb.
Mate. It’s science fiction.
Not seen SW13 yet. Any good?
Heh.
You're assuming a lack of internal consistency simply because they didn't explain how it worked.
Otherwise, if there wasn't a really good internally consistent reason for why it happened that doesn't fuck up everything before it, that'd be like they just made a stupid decision to do something to get them out of a plot dead end and to do something that looked amazing, and Disney would never do that surely.
You're assuming a lack of internal consistency simply because they didn't explain how it worked.
Otherwise, if there wasn't a really good internally consistent reason for why it happened that doesn't fuck up everything before it, that'd be like they just made a stupid decision to do something to get them out of a plot dead end and to do something that looked amazing, and Disney would never do that surely.
Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Also, you now can't travel from point A to point B without checking to see if you're going to smack into a moon on the way.
Christ, hit a coin that someone dropped in space and it's going to turn your ship inside out.
Christ, hit a coin that someone dropped in space and it's going to turn your ship inside out.
That was already (film) canon:
Han Solo: “Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?”
Oh, then IV fucks up, not XIII.
No, iv and viii are fine but vii is wrong then.
Every film where they didn't just strap a hyperdrive engine onto a rock and call it an unstoppable capital ship destroying missile is wrong.
Yep, looks that way.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I have seen it. I thought it was good, not great — but I’d really only rate Empire as great, I think. Probably better than either Force or Rogue, both of which I felt had sizeable flaws.
Oh hang on, just saw this. Get out. Now. Rogue is quite clearly the second best star wars film after Empire. Empirically so, you might say.
Cras wrote:
Every film where they didn't just strap a hyperdrive engine onto a rock and call it an unstoppable capital ship destroying missile is wrong.
...
... ...
Fuck!
Oh no wait, I totally cover that. Go me!
Yep, you're good
MrChris wrote:
Oh hang on, just saw this. Get out. Now. Rogue is quite clearly the second best star wars film after Empire. Empirically so, you might say.
No character in Rogue is even remotely interesting to watch. It’s a total charisma vacuum. It doesn’t wreck the film but it’s a huge black mark compared to any five continuous seconds of Harrison Ford in the original trilogy.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Oh hang on, just saw this. Get out. Now. Rogue is quite clearly the second best star wars film after Empire. Empirically so, you might say.
No character in Rogue is even remotely interesting to watch. It’s a total charisma vacuum. It doesn’t wreck the film but it’s a huge black mark compared to any five continuous seconds of Harrison Ford in the original trilogy.
You are actually broken.
Robot Wash!
I think Rogue One is probably my favourite Star Wars film, purely because of that bit at the end.
Yeah Star Wars is pretty much a set piece kind of series for me. As a kid that was what really got me stoked on it. I cared 1/10th as much about Vader Being Luke's dad and all that sort of guff as I did seeing Tie fighters blowing up X-Wings or AT-ATs stomping about and all that jazz.