Be Excellent To Each Other

Actually, he's made my weekend. I genuinely had no idea he deigned to read anything here (always claimed the reverse in fact), but now I know otherwise. Most cathartic.

Anyway, it's hardly as if you don't know I'm right on this.

Many thanks Kern, much appreciated. Enlightening stuff.

Those inconvenient "facts of the matter", eh. Next?

---

Alex Salmond yesterday, quoted as saying "If it wasn't for you pesky, meddling kids, I'd have gotten away with it!"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ation.html

Still, what do fully three quarters of those 250 leading Scots businessmen know, eh readers? I bet they are all of them *shite* at Angry Birds.

'No positive case for the Union', my hairy backside.

Rev Stu in "talking utter bollocks" shocker!



Still, he's only the President of the European Commission. What does he know, eh readers?

Salmond needs to aim higher. Seems a Scot might one day be running Germany.

Regardless of who is actually correct, it looks like a complicated enough issue that it's only going to get resolved by a stonkingly long-winded and complicated court case. An independent Scotland might end up sitting in some horrid EU-limbo for a year whilst it is hammered out in some courtroom. I've no idea where this would be decided, either. A national court in Brussel or Edinburgh? Is there a court that handles this sort of thing - I don't think the Council of Europe handles it.

LoL. Is it me, or does he look indistinguishable from Millipede in that photo?

Apparently he's a Glasgow Rangers supporter though, so I seriously doubt he'll avoid 'the hairdryer treatment of hatred' from you-know-who...

And even if Scotland had expedited entry, it's still not a process that will happen in months. Also, given that various other European countries wouldn't be thrilled to see bits of them break away, there's a massive threat of veto, even when the 'rest of the UK' isn't part of the equation.

Hadn't thought of that. Spain at least ( and probably Belgium and possibly others ) has a vested interest in making life difficult for breakaway nations.

Absolutely, as I alluded to before.

Frankly I am astonished at the forthright and absolute bluntness of the EU's intervention here. I mean, FFS, join the very thinly veiled diplomatic dots; the message is writ as large on the wall as any I have seen. Whether it's been driven by some concern about the democratic deficit being suffered by the people of Scotland in all of this (what with the SNP's obfiscation and lies as regards this subject matter), or far more likely, the interests of giant EU powers such as Spain (and the UK for that matter), as well as smaller nations also, is immaterial. The facts are the facts - deal with it.

Fuck me, it's like trying to explain to a child that Santa Claus doesn't really exist... my grandson regularly and petulantly refuses to accept reality, stomping his little feet in sheer frustration. I daresay it's quite endearing for a two year old, but a middle aged man? Not so much.

EDIT: Needless to say (surely?) my sentiments above were not directed toward Squirt...

You try and convince your grandson that Santa doesn't exist?

Fucking hell, he tries to take credit for everything doesn't our Cavey?

Heh, nope, far from it! I was talking about a much older child

The little lad will have his note to Father Chistmas sent up the chimney (as will his slightly younger cousin); they will leave each leave a carrot, mince pie and glass of sherry out for him on Christmas Eve, and they'll have their little faces dabbed with coal dust when they wake up on Christmas morning.

Yeah, that's harsh dude.

Young Grandson : Granddad, what will I be when I grow up?
Lord Raiden : It doesn't matter. All human hope and endeavour is but ashes. You will toil and die, and then be forgotten.
YG : But...
LR : Silence! You are just an insignificant speck in an meaningless and uncaring universe. All you care for and love will ultimately decay. All that awaits you is an eternity of nothingness.
YG :
LR : You are learning...

eh?

LoL.

But as I say, nothing could be further from the truth, sorry if that wasn't clear.

No worries. it was a joke, that you were saying "Father christmas doesn't exist. it is me who takes all the toys to all the children in all the world".

Ah, soz mate.

Dear Cavey

I would like a Mercedes Benz, my friends all have Porsches and I like to make amends..

Love

Kov

Have you been a very good boy, Kov?

Ish!

On Santa, I'm not sure how effective it'd be (and I'm not a parent myself), but I found Santa is a game people play an interesting idea on dealing with the whole Santa thing without lying to kids and encouraging them to be more materialistic. (I know I and other savvy friends pretty much kept quiet when we twigged about Santa and the Tooth Fairy, because, well, MOAR THINGZ.)

Italy is another more significant EU state that will fight tooth and nail to prevent breakaway regions succeeding.

Belgium disintegrating a massive potential clusterfuck that the EU institutions will do everything possible to avert - because of Brussels, natch.

Apparently though, according to the Cybernats, Barroso wasn't actually talking about, or thinking of, Scotland at all because he didn't actually go quite so far as to name it (er, even though he *cannot* actually do so under these circumstances), when he made his remarks? Yep, that's right readers, he must've been alluding to some *other* EU state that's about to hold a referendum on independence and this is all just some evil Unionist "spin"...

... There just comes a point where, in the face of such delusional idiocy, one simply loses the will to go on with any sort of argument here? I mean seriously, what is there to say in response to that?

Personally speaking, I find my anger and passion just leaves me, and all I'm left with is an empty, residual sense of pity. I guess they'll find out about this stuff soon enough, but in the meantime there's clearly nothing that I, or anyone else has to to say that is going to make one iota of difference.

(Incidentally, those 250 Scottish business leaders who participated in that MORI poll, see above, are also no doubt in league with David Cameron, lying through their teeth and/or are Apostates of Hell, or something?)

Some quite interesting Scottish Independence poll trend data that I've not seen before:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/scottish-independence

Of particular note I think, is the proposed "new" question wording of 2012 poll data, namely 'Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?'

According to this site, the Yes vote has fallen from an already low base of 39% in Jan 2012 to a quite catastrophic 30% in October of this year, almost a one-quarter drop in as little as 10 months (and with the No vote at an imperious 58%, almost double), and not even allowing for the latest (November and December) 'EU Advicegate' and the EU Commission President's quite definitive, pointed (albeit supposedly generic, for reasons of diplomacy and protocol) advice. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yes vote crash yet even further to perhaps 25% or even 20%, post these enormous debacles (not to mention the performance of Wee Eck in general, what with his previously discussed Orwellian Tippex bottle parliamentary records antics and all the rest).

The SNP can count themselves very fortunate indeed that the vote is still two years off; were it tomorrow, they'd sink without trace off the back of their recent performance in this debate (and indeed in the Scots Parliament and media in general). Notwithstanding, clawing back a 20-point (minimum) swing in their favour, possibly even more than that if I'm right about the deleterious effect on forthcoming polls, is one hell of a big ask, even in that kind of timescale - surely unprecedented? No wonder Salmond and the rest didn't want the referendum anytime soon. Courage of convictions, eh...

I honestly think also that the rise of the Cybernats is causing gross harm to the Yes campaign in general. I don't have any problem with ordinary Scots independence supporters, far from it - but just as I have little time for those at the far, intolerant extremes of Conservatism, so it is also with the Nationalists. If I were a Scottish independence supporter, I'd be asking the Cybernats, with their IMO unpleasant, aggressive, intolerant image, to put a sock in it, big time.

In other news, it's amusing to note the latest Cybernat suggestion which seems to be that the whole threat to an independent Scotland's membership of the EU is somehow a "positive" for the Yes vote, that somehow your average Scots voter is anti-EU to the extent of being glad of the idea of being not only out of the UK, but the EU as well...? Yeah right, good luck with that one. Like I say, the next round of opinion polls will, I suspect, be both interesting and informative.

He'd fit right in here

Flouncing and starting his own country?

Actually, I've just warmed to him a teensy bit. Man after my own heart!

Interesting piece in yesterday's Telegraph specifically about 'Cybernats':



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -name.html

Further latest poll data shows Nationalist vote bumping along the floor at 32%



http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/368861

This is interesting as well:



Is this actually true? I'd be amazed if so; surely this is an error.

2015 is for Westminster - the next Holyrood election is in 2016. People might vote different ways depending on the election. For most domestic stuff, it's the Holyrood one that matters for Scots now.

Yeah I got that mate, but I was (and am) still gobsmacked by that revelation. I don't really see why the SNP should be such an unpopular choice for the General Election?

Because the SNP has zero chance of forming or being part of a UK-wide government?

Yeah I got that mate, but I was (and am) still gobsmacked by that revelation. I don't really see why the SNP should be such an unpopular choice for the General Election?



The SNP are a protest vote. Nothing else. The one clever thing - and I'm no fan - that Salmond realised long ago was that the Scots could only be sleep walked into voting for Indy.

He's a 'gradualist' compared to the more fundamentalist "indy or nothing" brigade (the potential anti-English racists), he realised that independence could only be executed in increments.

From that point of view he's done a good job. An overall majority at the 2011 Scottish election was and is his zenith. It's why he was so desperate to get Devo-Max on the table.

David Cameron outfoxed him with that one. Both men know that Indy in Scotland is currently unwinnable. Conceding everything but a one question referendum has been Cameron's master stroke.

It will kill off the appetite in Indy for a generation when it fails and it will split the SNP back into what they are - a rabble rousing joke party full of faux elitists and Braveheart Commando romanticists.

I never have and never will be anti-Indy. I've been anti-SNP/Salmond for some time now. I find Salmond's choice of corporate friends and penchant for evasion and lies completely unpalatable.

Regards

NB: Lord Raiden - if you are Captain Caveman, I'd like to say a big Hello. Not a fan of your politics but I love your debating style.

Cheers mate, that's very useful, thanks.

Yes, I am indeed Cavey.
Nice of you to say that about me too mate, though I'm the first to admit my 'debating style' actually leaves much to be desired, but there again I suppose it's 'Captain Caveman' for good reason. Plenty of people here have kicked my arse good and proper though - frequently - but that's actually a good outcome much of the time and kind of the point? Makes you rethink, reconsider and re-evaluate; my 'politics' are pretty much unrecognisable from the unreconstructed Thatcherite Tory that I was 5-6 years ago. That's very largely as a result of people from this very board, most notably Peter St. John, Mr Chris and others.

Anyway, a very warm welcome from me mate, great to see you here. I look forward to your own input, particularly as regards this subject matter.

Cavey

Hullo! Nice to meet you!

There's nothing wrong with 'head down, point horns, engage feet' as a debating style.

The phrase "Bull in a china shop" was never more apt. I refuse to believe it, but my family even claim that I actually really do physically lower my head and scrape my foot when I'm really riled, which is actually a bit mental likes.

Thanks for the welcome and hello to you too MaliA.


Thanks Cavey. I remember well some of your kind words directed my way on a certain other site dedicated to Scottish independence. They were well appreciated at the time .

The curious dilemma regarding that site was the out and out abuse I received from the host and his homeboys. I always found it ironic given that I don't know what to think about Scottish independence. If anything, that makes me more sceptical about the claims made by both sides of the debate.

For my pains, and part due to my moniker, I've been called "English", a "14th century war criminal", a "Unionist", a "Labour supporter", a "hate blinded idiot", a "troll" (I didn't even know what that was in internet terms and had to look it up on google) and was even accused of being Captain Caveman. Each label clearly meant as an insult.

Onyhoo, I've written enough for a novel judging by the average length of comment here.

Once again, regards and thanks for the welcome.

Does that even work as an insult?

As insults go, it's pretty creative. Dodgy moral compass, sure, but at least extreme longevity is a fine attribute.

As for the appalling prospect of 'being Captain Caveman', I'll wear that one as a badge of honour methinks. It's actually not all that bad.

Latest Scottish independence poll:



http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... s.19910713

As predicted, support for SNP/independence has fallen through the floor; it's now at a mere 28%, little more than one-in-four? Blimey, that's even lower than *I* was expecting. That's what happens when you're not straight with people, I guess.
Still, I'm sure the cybernats are delighted, spinning this as somehow great news for them. Heh!

If this turns out to be in any way accurate, then wow. We have a government that people generally hate, in part composed of a party that used to do well north of the border. The opposition is ineffective, and the SNP really has the best chance right now to make major in-roads. If the 'yes' vote only manages 28% now, what will happen if the economy improves? Mind you, British people tend to like the status quo—maybe even a vote on EU membership might result in nothing changing.

I totally agree mate. But then, the SNP have been shown again and again to be making it up as they're going along; they seemingly have got absolutely nothing sorted, even stuff like what currency this New Scotland would be supposed to use, what status it would have according to the EU and all the rest. The embarrassing fiascos of the 'Barroso letter' and 'EU advice written in invisible ink' amply demonstrated these facts - these were not Unionist propaganda; everyone could see the facts of the entirely unforced situation for themselves, and no amount of cybernat black-is-white internet revisionist twattery or third rate sophistry was ever going to change anything. Plus, no doubt the integrity of the SNP itself has been called very much into question - they're a joke.

I mean, let's face it. If you manage to make Labour look like a good, honest, competent, safe pair of hands, despite everything - you've got problems, basically. Plus, as I've alluded to before, the SNP clearly have a big PR/image problem with their 'cybernats' anyway?

Reading last night's debate in the Lords about the order giving Holyrood the power to hold the referendum, I got the impression that Lord Forsyth doesn't like the SNP leader very much:



Or, indeed, Sean Connery:



Of course, the big question is whether ['Nobody in particular'-Uncle Jo Stalin] will return to his homeland to vote for independence, or whether he'll remain one of the large disenfranchised Scottish diaspora.

This might be the case. Salmond has to prove to the undecideds and the legions of constitutional apathetics (what? There's life outside of constitution writing? Even the chance of sex?) that divorce from the UK will improve their lives and wallets. We might hate first-past-the-post, for instance, but most people don't care, for good or ill.

""L'état, c'est moi" is the First Minister's motto every time he gets into his office in the morning."

That's comedy gold. Yup, his Grace sure is a bit of a wit, it must be said - and bang on the money as well.
I think that 'red card' he mentions elsewhere in his speech is well reflected in that 28% figure, as it goes. Most Scottish folk are normal, sensible, fair-minded people after all.

Of that small, irreducible, vocal, bitter minority, though, I daresay it wouldn't matter if the SNP started advocating the slaying of firstborn sons; they'd probably still support 'em.

(As for people who don't even live in Scotland, well, they "don't have a dog in the fight", I guess )