devilman wrote:
AE - have you played at any of the 'Rival' casinos like http://www.paradise8.com/? To sate my gambling cravings this past week I've just been playing for free on there and they're not too bad - not as slick as the Microgaming/Playtech slots but some of them are interesting, like Hole in Won (awful name, natch) which has a mini golf game in the bonus round.
Having a little bit of a read around with regards to Rival, and the help of an affiliate from the Casinomeister forums, and also his excellent stats page here - http://www.slotbeaters.com/SD~Rival.htm
I selected a Rival casino to play at, and went with 'Vegas Sky' in the end. They do a 150% match-up to £300 so a £200 deposit turns into a £500 bankroll with a relatively modest 15xD+B WR (£7500).
Was playing their slots for hours after the family went to bed last night (a bit too late, truth be told!) and you're quite right devilman, they are something a bit different. The bonus rounds can certainly surprise with some large prizes in a way that MG slots don't. (MG slots tend to have very limited 'ranges' for a lot of their bonus rounds.)
They're not mega-slick, but I found the graphics and sound to be perfectly acceptable overall, although the all-or-nothing casino client window is a pain in the arse. Fullscreen is too big and takes over my entire 27 inch monitor, and at 'native size' it's a tiny little postage stamp window at my native 2560x1440 resolution.
Finished the evening in profit, but still a long way to go on the WR. Will resume again tonight.
After a couple of less than stellar online sessions, it was time visit the dear olde pub again.
Gambling laws 'outdated' say MPs paving the way for unlimited "fixed odds betting terminals".
MaliA wrote:
Gambling laws 'outdated' say MPs paving the way for unlimited "fixed odds betting terminals".
Those FOBTs they have in the bookies are fucking evil, never played one myself but I've read enough stories and watched enough videos to understand them well enough.
I'm amazed they're allowed in premises you can just walk into off the high street, betting £100+ per spin of the wheel, that sort of thing used to be the sole preserve of casinos.
Did he win?
Trooper wrote:
Did he win?
I'm no gambling scientist, but on balance, I'd say not.
devilman wrote:
AE - have you played at any of the 'Rival' casinos like http://www.paradise8.com/? To sate my gambling cravings this past week I've just been playing for free on there and they're not too bad - not as slick as the Microgaming/Playtech slots but some of them are interesting, like Hole in Won (awful name, natch) which has a mini golf game in the bonus round.
First impressions/review of a Rival powered casino.
Took on an insane £122,000 wagering requirement this week.
As such, large stakes were required.
Cue spins in the region of £4-£5..... Does make for lots of big wins/bonuses though, £1000+ were not unusual.
As such, large stakes were required.
Cue spins in the region of £4-£5..... Does make for lots of big wins/bonuses though, £1000+ were not unusual.
tl;dw
What happened?
What happened?
Curiosity wrote:
tl;dw
What happened?
What happened?
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
zaphod79 wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
tl;dw
What happened?
What happened?
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
/matrix
...Hear that Mr Anderson?
It is the sound of inevitability. It is the sound of your death.
Goodbye, Mr Anderson.
This isn't emulation either, btw. 
I'm normally the last person to worry about nitpicking bollocks like this but I'm sorry, but there's a world of difference between the emulation of fruit machines (i.e. no money involved) and hour-long clips of actual gambling, with six-figure sums being wagered cumulatively, in a forum with recovering gambling addicts watching.
I'm normally the last person to worry about nitpicking bollocks like this but I'm sorry, but there's a world of difference between the emulation of fruit machines (i.e. no money involved) and hour-long clips of actual gambling, with six-figure sums being wagered cumulatively, in a forum with recovering gambling addicts watching.
Captain Caveman wrote:
This isn't emulation either, btw.
I'm normally the last person to worry about nitpicking bollocks like this but I'm sorry, but there's a world of difference between the emulation of fruit machines (i.e. no money involved) and hour-long clips of actual gambling, with six-figure sums being wagered cumulatively, in a forum with recovering gambling addicts watching.
I'm normally the last person to worry about nitpicking bollocks like this but I'm sorry, but there's a world of difference between the emulation of fruit machines (i.e. no money involved) and hour-long clips of actual gambling, with six-figure sums being wagered cumulatively, in a forum with recovering gambling addicts watching.
This was actual gambling but in a odd form in that what was wagered was £100 , with a maximum win of £880
So he put £100 of real money in , got £1800 to spend and if he had anything left after wagering £122000 he could cash it out up to a maximum of £880
However I do agree with your comments that the thread was originally here for emulation rather than real gambling and it might make sense to move these type of real gambling posts to a different thread ?
zaphod79 wrote:
This was actual gambling but in a odd form in that what was wagered was £100 , with a maximum win of £880
So he put £100 of real money in , got £1800 to spend and if he had anything left after wagering £122000 he could cash it out up to a maximum of £880
So he put £100 of real money in , got £1800 to spend and if he had anything left after wagering £122000 he could cash it out up to a maximum of £880
I appreciate that Zaphod mate but it's still wagering vast amounts of recycled wins. Even if you ignore that, it's still spunking £100 down the drain on fruit machines and wasting hour upon hour doing so, poisoning the mind.
That said, even if AE had won though, it probably would've been worse in a way as that may have been even more likely to trigger someone else having a go. To be fair to AE, who I am fond of btw, he's always made it very clear for quit gamblers to stay quit, but what he's obviously failing to realise is that these videos and constant accounts etc. are likely to do the reverse IMO.
The tragic irony here is that AE was always the biggest critic of random fruit machines; citing (quite correctly) that one can never beat the percentages in the long run, which is precisely what this is. Random machines such as these are even more dangerous than their pub AWP brethren, not least because of their universal accessibility 24/7, huge jackpots, player-determined stakes all the way to £700/spin FFS. In my day, all I had to do was avoid motorway service stations, pubs and clubs, but the quitting addict now has to avoid the internet (as well as pubs, clubs and particularly bookies that have sprung up everywhere).
Interesting news story in the Torygraph:
Gambling addicts (most commonly men aged 16-24) are losing £300MM pa on gambling.
Virtual roulette machines make c£18k a minute.
William hill and Ladbrookes saw £12.5 Billion spent on the fixed odds machines last year.
The apparent ease of victory fools people into playing more.
Gambling addicts (most commonly men aged 16-24) are losing £300MM pa on gambling.
Virtual roulette machines make c£18k a minute.
William hill and Ladbrookes saw £12.5 Billion spent on the fixed odds machines last year.
The apparent ease of victory fools people into playing more.
MaliA wrote:
Interesting news story in the Torygraph:
Quote:
On the same programme, Labour's deputy leader, Harriet Harman, admitted that the last government had ruined people's lives by allowing the spread of FOBT machines.
She said: “If we had known then what we know now we wouldn’t have allowed this, because it’s not just ruining the high street it’s ruining people’s lives.”
She said: “If we had known then what we know now we wouldn’t have allowed this, because it’s not just ruining the high street it’s ruining people’s lives.”
Like, duh. 'Fruit machines are addictive' shocker - who'd of thunk it, eh? I mean, why were these heavily restricted for decades and until quite recently (1990s) limited to just 20p per go and £2.40 maximum cash prize in all but restricted clubs?
... Stupid cow. Just about sums up Labour.
Looks like their deregulation of gambling has been about as successful as their deregulation of banking and drinking - ruining people's lives. 'Things can only get better'.
EDIT: That Torygraph piece is totally wrong btw; most online casino games allowing staking of at least £500 per spin, not £100, and some even more than that - as even the most cursory glance at any of those mainstream sites like 'Sky Vegas' and William Hill etc. would've revealed. Who the fuck writes these pieces?
Captain Caveman wrote:
I appreciate that Zaphod mate but it's still wagering vast amounts of recycled wins. Even if you ignore that, it's still spunking £100 down the drain on fruit machines and wasting hour upon hour doing so, poisoning the mind.
I agree , at one point in the video he does mention that one one of the casino forums someone worked out the %ages and it was something like a 9% chance that he'd make it through the whole thing (so a roughly 1 in 11 chance for a roughly 9X stake win)
Captain Caveman wrote:
which is precisely what this is. Random machines such as these are even more dangerous than their pub AWP brethren, not least because of their universal accessibility 24/7, huge jackpots, player-determined stakes all the way to £700/spin FFS.
And being advertised so much more - you never saw fruit machines being advertised on TV or in the media and yet you'll see adverts in just about everything for these.
Captain Caveman wrote:
In my day, all I had to do was avoid motorway service stations, pubs and clubs, but the quitting addict now has to avoid the internet (as well as pubs, clubs and particularly bookies that have sprung up everywhere).
And the TV , and the print media , and with the smartphone in your pocket able to allow you to not even have to leave the comfort of where-ever you happen to be right now.
Captain Caveman wrote:
Like, duh. 'Fruit machines are addictive' shocker - who'd of thunk it, eh? I mean, why were these heavily restricted for decades and until quite recently (1990s) limited to just 20p per go and £2.40 maximum cash prize in all but restricted clubs?
They did have an interesting time shuffling the price vs jackpot up , and the tokens side of things always seemed to be another way to contain what could actually be won (and the £2.40 is an odd one to stick with since I know we both remember machines with a £1 'cash' jackpot (original Line-up - in fact i remember the machines in my local arcade being upgraded to £3 and the £1.50 suddenly becoming all cash from there to £2 / £2.40 / £3 / £4 then the tokens went and it was £10 cash / £15 / £25 / £35 and now £70 for normal fruit machines but £500 for others - the Casino ones also went from £100 / £150 / £200 / £250 / and now to who knows what)
Captain Caveman wrote:
EDIT: That Torygraph piece is totally wrong btw; most online casino games allowing staking of at least £500 per spin, not £100, and some even more than that - as even the most cursory glance at any of those mainstream sites like 'Sky Vegas' and William Hill etc. would've revealed. Who the fuck writes these pieces?
Generally someone who knows nothing about them and who has just been given a few hastily scrawled facts and cant even be bothered to check them out but I think the £100 per spin is the FOBT rather than the online options and thats for the Roulette board rather than the slots (which have a max of £2 i think)
Quote:
They include Deptford High Street in south London where there are 10 shops within three-quarters of a mile.
I've seen this, and sadly it wasn't covered on History of our Streets, which didn't go as far as how much of a shitheap the high street has become. Lewisham and Greenwich councils are worried about Lewisham/Greenwich/Blackheath becoming the same as they can't veto business premises being used as Bookies, or more to the point, Mini Casinos.
That article doesn't cover it, but I'm sure that I've seen (very) recently that the Government proposed removing the restriction on the number of FOBT in any one shop (or significantly increasing the maximum), in order to reduce the number of bookies shops in a row, and so theoretically supply the 'need' for 50 terminals in a street to (say) 25 each in 2 shops, rather than 5 each in 10 shops. As a proposal to reduce the issues, it sounds absolutely fucking ridiculous.
As far as whether deregulation of UK gambling is concerned, I'm not sure that it makes a lot of difference. I've never been a dangerously heavy gambler, but I have on more than one occasion lost more money than I could afford to at that time in Service Stations, the Pub, and online. A couple of years ago I lost £150 on an iphone Webapp casino operated from Malta or such like. That was fucking dangerous and thank christ I lost big first time out and never went back. You can't close the pandoras box of overseas operators online, as the US have proven (but stubbornly continue to believe that they can), and so this problem isn't going away, even if you banned gambling outright, although the opportunism of shoving £100 in 20s into a machine in Ladbrokes could at least be restricted.
Captain Caveman wrote:
I appreciate that Zaphod mate but it's still wagering vast amounts of recycled wins. Even if you ignore that, it's still spunking £100 down the drain on fruit machines and wasting hour upon hour doing so, poisoning the mind.
Goodness me Cavey are you sure you're not my mum in disguise?
I'll decide for myself what constitutes 'wasting' my time and/or 'poisoning' my mind, cheers!
Quote:
The tragic irony here is that AE was always the biggest critic of random fruit machines; citing (quite correctly) that one can never beat the percentages in the long run, which is precisely what this is.
Indeed, but with the right bonus offer and enough persistence, you can 'beat the bonus' as it were, even if you can't beat random numbers.
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Goodness me Cavey are you sure you're not my mum in disguise?
I'll decide for myself what constitutes 'wasting' my time and/or 'poisoning' my mind, cheers!
I'll decide for myself what constitutes 'wasting' my time and/or 'poisoning' my mind, cheers!
LoL. Typical 'angry gambler' response, there. Believe me, I know.
You're not seriously suggesting that ploughing £120k through endless online fruit machines at £1/spin or whatever, isn't wasting your time are you? Or that playing fruit machines continuously, for many hours and hours on end, with your own money (and £100 of it is, or rather was, your own money, however you choose to dress it up as justification) isn't either?
But, you entirely miss the point, cherry picking as you are a tiny bit of my post and quoting it out of context. You say I'm your mum - are you sure you're not
? He particularly specialises in shit like this.THE POINT is that *I*, as a recovering gambling addict, don't want to be endlessly reminded about *real* fruit machines, and the playing thereof, on a forum that has fuck all to do with them, in a thread that's supposed to be about emulation anyway. People have already posted here and said they're trying to give up; WTF are you trying to achieve here?
So, y'know mate, in the nicest possible way etc., could you please STFU about real fruit machines or take it to a fruit machine or gambling forum? Ta.
Quote:
Indeed, but with the right bonus offer and enough persistence, you can 'beat the bonus' as it were, even if you can't beat random numbers.
Captain Caveman wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Goodness me Cavey are you sure you're not my mum in disguise?
I'll decide for myself what constitutes 'wasting' my time and/or 'poisoning' my mind, cheers!
I'll decide for myself what constitutes 'wasting' my time and/or 'poisoning' my mind, cheers!
LoL. Typical 'angry gambler' response, there. Believe me, I know.
You're not seriously suggesting that ploughing £120k through endless online fruit machines at £1/spin or whatever, isn't wasting your time are you? Or that playing fruit machines continuously, for hours and hours on end, with your own money (and £100 of it is, or rather was, your own money, however you choose to dress it up as justification).
But, you entirely miss the point, cherry picking as you are a tiny bit of my post and quoting it out of context. You say I'm your mum - are you sure you're not
? He particularly specialises in shit like this.THE POINT is that *I*, as a recovering gambling addict, don't want to be endlessly reminded about *real* fruit machines, and the playing thereof, on a forum that has fuck all to do with them, in a thread that's supposed to be about emulation. People have already posted here and said they're trying to give up; WTF are you trying to achieve here?
So, y'know mate, in the nicest possible way etc., could you please STFU about real fruit machines or take it to a fruit machine or gambling forum? Ta.
LOL and I'm supposed to be the angry one.
This thread hasn't been about fruit machine emulation for over a year, you could always exercise your god-given right as an adult not to, y'know, keep clicking on it if you don't like the contents any more.
As I've said, people here have come to this thread saying how hard it is for them to give up. They don't need your pathetic little 'productions', in a thread that's supposed to be about emulation, and I'm pretty sure I don't. But hey, perhaps they need to exercise their "god-given right" and stop clicking on it as well, because hey, you're the very epitome of self-control I'm sure.
Perhaps you need to do a lot of things matey, but I'll leave it there.
EDIT: nice thread title edit there
Perhaps you need to do a lot of things matey, but I'll leave it there.
EDIT: nice thread title edit there
Captain Caveman wrote:
As I've said, people here have come to this thread saying how hard it is for them to give up. They don't need your pathetic little 'productions', in a thread that's supposed to be about emulation, and I'm pretty sure I don't. But hey, perhaps they need to exercise their "god-given right" and stop clicking on it as well, because hey, you're the very epitome of self-control I'm sure.
Perhaps you need to do a lot of things matey, but I'll leave it there.
Perhaps you need to do a lot of things matey, but I'll leave it there.
You're invoking a 'won't someone think of the children' approach, really?
I like editing my 'pathetic little productions' together and it seems a reasonable number of people enjoy watching them, so why not just live and let live? It's not like I'm enticing anyone to gamble, not least because I don't censor the bad stuff, so there are plenty of videos up on there of me losing money as well as winning. (Not on the AWPs because I consistently make a profit on them, but I'm not going to pretend I lose on them in the interests of 'editorial balance'.)
Besides which, as you have previously noted, I ALWAYS advise people who are quit to stay quit, and I ALWAYS advise people who haven't gambled before to never start.
Quote:
Perhaps you need to do a lot of things matey, but I'll leave it there.
Perhaps you need to climb down from that horse of yours and just accept that not everyone wants to live their life by the same values that you do. It doesn't make either of us 'right or wrong'.
Quote:
EDIT: nice thread title edit there
The shadowy hand of a mod must have done that, it wasn't me.
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
You're invoking a 'won't someone think of the children' approach, really?
You're not actually serious are you? Tell me you're not.
You, of all people, know the damage that real fruit machines do, as do I. People have spoken up, in this very thread of yours, about how they're struggling with such addictions, even now. You think this is helping them?
Shit, I've been off them for over a decade, yet even in my case, I found a small part of my brain saying 'why not take advantage of that free money AE keeps going on about', and yet to do so would be suicide.
I tried to point all this out to you in a perfectly civil and friendly manner, but you've given me the fuck off treatment.
Quote:
I like editing my 'pathetic little productions' together and it seems a reasonable number of people enjoy watching them, so why not just live and let live?
'Live and let live', FFS. We're talking about fruit machines and gambling, in a thread that is, or was, supposed to be about emulation stuff. See above. By the way, I cannot decide what is, or is not on this forum. I was merely trying to appeal to your better nature, since I thought you cared about people staying off fruit machines.
Quote:
It's not like I'm enticing anyone to gamble, not least because I don't censor the bad stuff, so there are plenty of videos up on there of me losing money as well as winning. (Not on the AWPs because I consistently make a profit on them, but I'm not going to pretend I lose on them in the interests of 'editorial balance'.)
I already expressly gave you full credit for not wanting to get people to start gambling, long before your actual intervention, if you actually read what I said. Of bloody course I don't think you're "enticing people to gamble"; FFS, I've known you for 10 years plus, you think I don't know that?
But you are not seeing sense here. For the current or ex-addict, this kind of stuff isn't helpful IMO - that is my take on it, including going on about Casino X or Y's 'best offers' at the moment. Emulation is something else and altogether more benign.
Quote:
Besides which, as you have previously noted, I ALWAYS advise people who are quit to stay quit, and I ALWAYS advise people who haven't gambled before to never start.
Again, see above and previous.
Quote:
Perhaps you need to climb down from that horse of yours and just accept that not everyone wants to live their life by the same values that you do. It doesn't make either of us 'right or wrong'.
Gambling addiction IS wrong. Playing fruit machines with real money, especially online, as an addict or ex-addict IS wrong. Don't talk to me about 'lifestyle choices' here; people get badly hurt through gambling addiction and not just the addicts themselves. I don't need to tell you this.
You seem to be affronted as though I'm trying to piss on your bonfire, or perhaps think I'm "above" it all now, but you're totally wrong. I have confessed, many many times, to have been quite the worst, the lowest, the most cheating, lying, low-life tosspot fruit machine addict ever. I wouldn't wish it on anyone and that is why it upsets me when I think there are people desperately trying to kick the habit, seemingly in safe havens well away from the whole gambling 'scene', only to have it brought to them. Like, as if there isn't already enough shit about fruit machines, enticements to gamble and all of the rest on the net and in the media already?
Please try to understand that I was not trying to piss you off for the sake of it. In the cold light of day you must surely understand.
Gambling edition of Dispatches on Channel 4 at 8!
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/disp ... /episode-1
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/disp ... /episode-1
Quote:
Britain's high streets are struggling to survive, but one business is booming; betting shops. On average one new bookie opens every week. In one London high street there are now 10 within yards and the locals are fed up.
What's driving this gambling boom and what's the impact on our communities? Michael Crick investigates the rise of High Street gambling. He hears from an apologetic politician who now admits they got the gambling laws wrong, and from those most affected by the spread of the betting shops.
What's driving this gambling boom and what's the impact on our communities? Michael Crick investigates the rise of High Street gambling. He hears from an apologetic politician who now admits they got the gambling laws wrong, and from those most affected by the spread of the betting shops.
Captain Caveman wrote:
You're not actually serious are you? Tell me you're not.
You, of all people, know the damage that real fruit machines do, as do I. People have spoken up, in this very thread of yours, about how they're struggling with such addictions, even now. You think this is helping them?
Shit, I've been off them for over a decade, yet even in my case, I found a small part of my brain saying 'why not take advantage of that free money AE keeps going on about', and yet to do so would be suicide.
I tried to point all this out to you in a perfectly civil and friendly manner, but you've given me the fuck off treatment.
You, of all people, know the damage that real fruit machines do, as do I. People have spoken up, in this very thread of yours, about how they're struggling with such addictions, even now. You think this is helping them?
Shit, I've been off them for over a decade, yet even in my case, I found a small part of my brain saying 'why not take advantage of that free money AE keeps going on about', and yet to do so would be suicide.
I tried to point all this out to you in a perfectly civil and friendly manner, but you've given me the fuck off treatment.
Ummm, what you actually did was:
1) Tell me to 'Shut The Fuck Up' or not post here at all about 'stuff on Cavey's banned list'
and
2) Did the rolley eyes
smiley in response to my statement of absolute fact about how it is possible to beat casino bonuses. Most of my online play isn't play of that nature, but it's still a fact that there are EV+ bonuses out there if you run the numbers right. (I will be posting my second attempt at the 1777% bonus at Tropica in due course.)Quote:
'Live and let live', FFS. We're talking about fruit machines and gambling, in a thread that is, or was, supposed to be about emulation stuff. See above. By the way, I cannot decide what is, or is not on this forum. I was merely trying to appeal to your better nature, since I thought you cared about people staying off fruit machines.
Well the fact of the matter is that fruit machine emulation has never garnered much interest here, I kind of hoped it would, but it hasn't - so it sort of morphed into a thread about real gambling instead. That happened very early on in this thread, and that's fine, that's the way it goes on forums - you go with the flow.
And of course I care about people staying off fruit machines or any forms of gambling, that's why I 'report honestly' on my YouTube channel and make quite sure that it documents the wins AND the losses, including the ball-crunching kicking I took at Jackpot Party a few weeks ago where I lost £150 in the space of about 30 minutes.
My better nature tells the truth, it would be very, very easy to edit out the shit and make gambling look like something that it isn't.
If you don't want to watch the whole video, there is the caption in there (amongst many other things) that simply reads:
GAMBLING : OFFICIALLY LESS FUN THAN BRUTAL MURDER AND CARNAGE
The caption is overlaid against a scene from the French horror film 'Inside' where a young pregnant woman is violently beaten (including taking a clubbing directly to her stomach) by a crazed cop who's recently been shot in the side of the head by a riot calming gun.
Quote:
I already expressly gave you full credit for not wanting to get people to start gambling, long before your actual intervention, if you actually read what I said. Of bloody course I don't think you're "enticing people to gamble"; FFS, I've known you for 10 years plus, you think I don't know that?
But you are not seeing sense here. For the current or ex-addict, this kind of stuff isn't helpful IMO - that is my take on it, including going on about Casino X or Y's 'best offers' at the moment. Emulation is something else and altogether more benign.
But you are not seeing sense here. For the current or ex-addict, this kind of stuff isn't helpful IMO - that is my take on it, including going on about Casino X or Y's 'best offers' at the moment. Emulation is something else and altogether more benign.
I don't think it's possible to make any sort of blanket statement about what is or isn't helpful to the ex-addict, specifically I don't think that my channel glamorises gambling in any way, and if anyone ever asks me about gambling I'll tell them it's a fucking shit cunt of a monkey that they never want to allow to clamber onto their back in a million fucking years.
Quote:
Gambling addiction IS wrong. Playing fruit machines with real money, especially online, as an addict or ex-addict IS wrong. Don't talk to me about 'lifestyle choices' here; people get badly hurt through gambling addiction and not just the addicts themselves. I don't need to tell you this.
I don't disagree with your basic thrust there Cavey, but again, this blanket statement of 'THIS IS WRONG' is a blunt instrument. People do many different things for many different reasons, and whilst it is possible to make a base moral judgement on some matters, I think you're wandering into a grey area there.
Quote:
You seem to be affronted as though I'm trying to piss on your bonfire, or perhaps think I'm "above" it all now, but you're totally wrong. I have confessed, many many times, to have been quite the worst, the lowest, the most cheating, lying, low-life tosspot fruit machine addict ever. I wouldn't wish it on anyone and that is why it upsets me when I think there are people desperately trying to kick the habit, seemingly in safe havens well away from the whole gambling 'scene', only to have it brought to them. Like, as if there isn't already enough shit about fruit machines, enticements to gamble and all of the rest on the net and in the media already?
Please try to understand that I was not trying to piss you off for the sake of it. In the cold light of day you must surely understand.
Please try to understand that I was not trying to piss you off for the sake of it. In the cold light of day you must surely understand.
There's a big difference between the astonishingly amoral promotion of gambling in the mass media, and what I do on my crappy little YouTube channel, not least because I show the losses as well as the wins and I emote about them both with equal passion.
I don't really watch telly these days at all, but we did have the Euro football championships on the other month and I was fucking stunned at the wall-to-wall promotion of gambling and alcohol in the advert breaks, as I commented to Mrs AE 'They're just advertising drugs, and some of the most dangerous ones in the world too!'
With all due respect Cavey (and that's not a throwaway comment either, I have the utmost respect for you) - I don't peddle that shit on my channel, and whilst I would not expect (or wish upon
) anyone to watch the entirety of its content, I really don't think you can lump me in with the adverts on ITV. 
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Quote:
EDIT: nice thread title edit there
The shadowy hand of a mod must have done that, it wasn't me.
Logs say that no-one touched it. I've always remembered it saying that, anyway.
Grim... wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Quote:
EDIT: nice thread title edit there
The shadowy hand of a mod must have done that, it wasn't me.
Logs say that no-one touched it. I've always remembered it saying that, anyway.
I think you're right, IIRC I did start this thread out with the clear expectation that it was pointless, it was about fruit machines, and the emulation thereof - and named it accordingly.
Cavey, take the tin foil hat off dude!
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Grim... wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Quote:
EDIT: nice thread title edit there
The shadowy hand of a mod must have done that, it wasn't me.
Logs say that no-one touched it. I've always remembered it saying that, anyway.
I think you're right, IIRC I did start this thread out with the clear expectation that it was pointless, it was about fruit machines, and the emulation thereof - and named it accordingly.
Cavey, take the tin foil hat off dude!
OK mate, I apologise for being mistaken about the thread title, I was obviously completely wrong.
Good post also (not the one I've quoted, the one that preceded it obv.).
This is an intensely emotive subject for me as you know; perhaps I lost my way a bit there.
'Nuff said, I'll stay out of the thread.
Captain Caveman wrote:
This is an intensely emotive subject for me as you know; perhaps I lost my way a bit there.
You and be both Cavey, I suspect we're dealing with being 'ex-gamblers' in different ways.
For you the path of total abstinence has worked and I respect you for that.
For me, controlling it has worked better as a long term solution.
You read all the horror stories at FF back in the day Cavey, so if I wasn't controlling it, it'd be quite obvious and you'd be well within your rights to call me out on it.
Both us have stared down the barrel of gambling addiction and both of us have lived to tell the tale, and truth be told, both of us have ended up OK - but the mechanisms we use in the aftermath are different.
I don't think your approach is wrong, but please don't assume that mine is either.
Quote:
'Nuff said, I'll stay out of the thread.
No need to do that old chap, I always much prefer forums and indeed threads where you're an active participant
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Both us have stared down the barrel of gambling addiction and both of us have lived to tell the tale, and truth be told, both of us have ended up OK - but the mechanisms we use in the aftermath are different.
I don't think your approach is wrong, but please don't assume that mine is either.
I don't think your approach is wrong, but please don't assume that mine is either.
I still play fruit machines - last night in the hotel I had a quick go on both of the machines in the bar for a small flutter and ended up £6 up. So I had £16 in pound coins in my pocket when I left.
The old me would never have left two fruit machines if I had £16 in my pocket.
Doing it piecemeal has worked for me as well but I would never go to AE's lengths with my infrequent dabbles.
Mainly because he's such a cunt. And a PC Spod.
Never got a buzz from gamblers, always prefered sticking my money into arcade games.
...so, er as you were.
...so, er as you were.
Trousers wrote:
I still play fruit machines - last night in the hotel I had a quick go on both of the machines in the bar for a small flutter and ended up £6 up. So I had £16 in pound coins in my pocket when I left.
The old me would never have left two fruit machines if I had £16 in my pocket.
Doing it piecemeal has worked for me as well but I would never go to AE's lengths with my infrequent dabbles.
Mainly because he's such a cunt. And a PC Spod.
The old me would never have left two fruit machines if I had £16 in my pocket.
Doing it piecemeal has worked for me as well but I would never go to AE's lengths with my infrequent dabbles.
Mainly because he's such a cunt. And a PC Spod.
Oh brilliant, Trousers has posted something.
Mr Dave wrote:
I particularly liked the C64 one with the skulls lets see if i can find a video ... hmm atari version instead of the C64
But at the same time i would have been playing
Which paid out the jackpot in tokens which also went into the pinball tables in the arcade :-)
Or anything in this video
*** Warning for Cavey - thats not safe for you to watch ***
zaphod79 wrote:
But at the same time i would have been playing
Which paid out the jackpot in tokens which also went into the pinball tables in the arcade :-)
Or anything in this video
*** Warning for Cavey - thats not safe for you to watch ***
Which paid out the jackpot in tokens which also went into the pinball tables in the arcade :-)
Or anything in this video
*** Warning for Cavey - thats not safe for you to watch ***
Indeed mate, all of those MPU3 classics featured heavily in my misspent youth.
Talking of Line Up, I seem to recall writing a word or two about it in a far distant galaxy...
http://www.fruitemu.co.uk/ib/index.php? ... im-speaks/
Chasing losses is always a good idea!
So here I am chucking another £100 at a second attempt at beating the 1777% bonus and its crazy £122,000 wagering requirement at the Tropica Casino.
Maximum potential cashout is actually over £1000 (0.5x bonus = £888 + original £100 deposit + at least £30 of comp points takes potential withdrawal to £1018).
So here I am chucking another £100 at a second attempt at beating the 1777% bonus and its crazy £122,000 wagering requirement at the Tropica Casino.
Maximum potential cashout is actually over £1000 (0.5x bonus = £888 + original £100 deposit + at least £30 of comp points takes potential withdrawal to £1018).
Hmmm, I don't think that's a bonus anyone was supposed to beat
Check out the terms and conditions on it now....
Still, I really can't complain, if the casino wanted to be cunts about it they'd invoke some sort of 'abuse of the bonus' clause and not pay me, but they've done it the right way round.
They've paid me my £1000, and then changed the T&Cs, which they're perfectly entitled to do. Just surprised no one got onto it before I did TBH.
Check out the terms and conditions on it now....
Still, I really can't complain, if the casino wanted to be cunts about it they'd invoke some sort of 'abuse of the bonus' clause and not pay me, but they've done it the right way round.
They've paid me my £1000, and then changed the T&Cs, which they're perfectly entitled to do. Just surprised no one got onto it before I did TBH.
Attachment:
beforeafter.jpg
Ooohhh interesting, I have been approached by an online casino affiliate website manager to produce reviews and other content for his website.
It appears that my international YouTube presence has attracted the attention of gambling's great and the good. *
He's not offering mega-bucks, but certainly enough to effectively pay me for something I enjoy doing anyway, including an interesting proposal where he funds my deposits to casinos to try out the bonuses and the game selection, and should I win I get to keep the profits. (I like the idea of that, as I'll be gambling on getting paid, by gambling!)
It would make me a bit of a dirty rotten sell out, but then again, capitalism and all that, innit.
I think I will express an interest, but also explain that whilst I am prepared to write 'professional' copy for his website, it won't alter the content I produce for my channel, which can be quite vehemently anti-gambling and anti-casino.
* I am clearly taking the piss out of myself here, in case it's not coming across. Anyone who's watched any of my videos will know that I excoriate myself on a regular basis for being a stupid gobby Manc twat.
It appears that my international YouTube presence has attracted the attention of gambling's great and the good. *
He's not offering mega-bucks, but certainly enough to effectively pay me for something I enjoy doing anyway, including an interesting proposal where he funds my deposits to casinos to try out the bonuses and the game selection, and should I win I get to keep the profits. (I like the idea of that, as I'll be gambling on getting paid, by gambling!)
It would make me a bit of a dirty rotten sell out, but then again, capitalism and all that, innit.
I think I will express an interest, but also explain that whilst I am prepared to write 'professional' copy for his website, it won't alter the content I produce for my channel, which can be quite vehemently anti-gambling and anti-casino.
* I am clearly taking the piss out of myself here, in case it's not coming across. Anyone who's watched any of my videos will know that I excoriate myself on a regular basis for being a stupid gobby Manc twat.
Is it still just a bit of fun when you stay up past 3:30am to meet a wagering requirement?
I'm going with, 'Yes it is!'
Anyway, I've got the £530 (£330 profit) so it was worthwhile.
I'm going with, 'Yes it is!'
Anyway, I've got the £530 (£330 profit) so it was worthwhile.
Ranjit Bolt wrote:
Perhaps even more exhilarating than that 80 grand streak was the day when I had gambled everything away except a £5,000 overdraft facility. By this stage I had had to remortgage my flat to the tune of £20,000. I spent the day debating with myself whether or not I should try my luck and see what I could do with that 5k. What had I got to lose? It wasn't even my money, but the bank's.
Was out for a few beers last night and was only playing the fruities in a 'change from the round' sort of style, didn't take any coins out with me, wasn't playing in anger, literally just putting a few quid in and taking what I could.
Did alright off this and got to the last pub with £25 in pound coins, after we'd finished our last drink and whilst my mate went for a piss before we went next door for pizza and chips and kebabs (his missus likes him to arrive home laden with food), I tried the fruity in there.
It took £25 off me, playing at 25p per spin, and didn't give the opportunity for one single win for all of that £25, the lowest win on this machine for one single line of three cherries (there are five winlines) is FIFTY FUCKING PENCE.
I'm a pretty unemotional detached sort of gambler when it comes to the fruities, but even I felt inclined to give the start button a bit of a bash and exclaim 'fucking pile of shit'.
The machine is a 'doable' one by a good player, so I can only assume that it had indeed been 'done' - but it's still shocking coding that a machine can end up in that state.
Did alright off this and got to the last pub with £25 in pound coins, after we'd finished our last drink and whilst my mate went for a piss before we went next door for pizza and chips and kebabs (his missus likes him to arrive home laden with food), I tried the fruity in there.
It took £25 off me, playing at 25p per spin, and didn't give the opportunity for one single win for all of that £25, the lowest win on this machine for one single line of three cherries (there are five winlines) is FIFTY FUCKING PENCE.
I'm a pretty unemotional detached sort of gambler when it comes to the fruities, but even I felt inclined to give the start button a bit of a bash and exclaim 'fucking pile of shit'.
The machine is a 'doable' one by a good player, so I can only assume that it had indeed been 'done' - but it's still shocking coding that a machine can end up in that state.
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
The machine is a 'doable' one by a good player, so I can only assume that it had indeed been 'done' - but it's still shocking coding that a machine can end up in that state.
Shocking that it stole £25 off you? I reckon you're the only one that thinks it's shocking. I bet the manufacturers of the machine think exactly the opposite.
Now, imagine if you had £25 in your back pocket today rather than nothing? Wouldn't that make you feel better?
TheVision wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
The machine is a 'doable' one by a good player, so I can only assume that it had indeed been 'done' - but it's still shocking coding that a machine can end up in that state.
Shocking that it stole £25 off you? I reckon you're the only one that thinks it's shocking. I bet the manufacturers of the machine think exactly the opposite.
Now, imagine if you had £25 in your back pocket today rather than nothing? Wouldn't that make you feel better?
My point isn't 'FRUIT MACHINE IN TAKES MONEY OFF PLAYER SHOCKER'
What I'm saying is that this machine has 'vulnerabilities' in it whereby a good player can absolutely batter it and leave it clawing back its percentage so aggressively that it has to take £25 in cold blood without offering even a single fifty pence win. That's bad coding.
Now admittedly I can and do take advantage of such vulnerabilities as and when I can, but as a 'casual player' on the other side of the fence, as I was last night, it wasn't very pretty!
In the UK, in unlicensed premises, it might be different elsewhere :
What I don't understand is, and something that has never been satisfactorily explained to me is this:
With class C machines (most commonly found in pubs and places), the minimum pay-out percentage is 70%.
So: GamblerX sticks £100,000 in, he'll get at least £70,000 back over those 100,000 spins (at £1 a go) by law.
The law of averages says he is always going to lose.
The law of the land says he is always going to lose.
The people that run the machine say he is always going to lose as they won’t set it to pay out 101%.So, over time, you’re never going to win more than you’ll stick in.
What I don't understand is, and something that has never been satisfactorily explained to me is this:
With class C machines (most commonly found in pubs and places), the minimum pay-out percentage is 70%.
So: GamblerX sticks £100,000 in, he'll get at least £70,000 back over those 100,000 spins (at £1 a go) by law.
The law of averages says he is always going to lose.
The law of the land says he is always going to lose.
The people that run the machine say he is always going to lose as they won’t set it to pay out 101%.So, over time, you’re never going to win more than you’ll stick in.
MaliA wrote:
In the UK, in unlicensed premises, it might be different elsewhere :
What I don't understand is, and something that has never been satisfactorily explained to me is this:
With class C machines (most commonly found in pubs and places), the minimum pay-out percentage is 70%.
So: GamblerX sticks £100,000 in, he'll get at least £70,000 back over those 100,000 spins (at £1 a go) by law.
The law of averages says he is always going to lose.
The law of the land says he is always going to lose.
The people that run the machine say he is always going to lose as they won’t set it to pay out 101%.So, over time, you’re never going to win more than you’ll stick in.
What I don't understand is, and something that has never been satisfactorily explained to me is this:
With class C machines (most commonly found in pubs and places), the minimum pay-out percentage is 70%.
So: GamblerX sticks £100,000 in, he'll get at least £70,000 back over those 100,000 spins (at £1 a go) by law.
The law of averages says he is always going to lose.
The law of the land says he is always going to lose.
The people that run the machine say he is always going to lose as they won’t set it to pay out 101%.So, over time, you’re never going to win more than you’ll stick in.
That principle applies to random machines (online slots, casino slots, roulette, etc), the key difference with AWPs (Amusement With Prizes, pub fruities if you will) is that they are COMPENSATED.
Random machines simply rely on an RNG and the law of averages to reach their RTP (Return To Player), AWPs are actively compensated, they have a 'memory' of what they've done before and they 'plan ahead' for what they're going to do, unlike a random machine where every spin of the reels is an entirely random and independent event.
I had a machine in a local bowling alley that had a really good 'trap' on it, whereby as long as the machine did a certain 'show' in the first £4 of play, it was an absolutely dead cert to get the £70 jackpot out of it for no more than £50 in, and often a lot less. I literally made hundreds of pounds off that one machine until they took it away. The most I ever lost was the initial £4 if it didn't 'show', in which case I walked away.
Here's a copy and paste of a post I made over at the Casinomeister forums to explain AWPs to folks from elsewhere in the world where there's no concept of AWPs and compensated machines.
-------
The key thing to remember with UK AWPs is that they are compensated, that is to say, the machine actively seeks out its target percentage and doesn't rely on random numbers to get the job done.
Where this makes UK AWPs unique is that every missed win or lost gamble genuinely makes the machine closer to paying out, and on the flip side of the coin when an AWP pays out big the code compensates the other way and will generally go on a really mean 'suck' period where it will basically refuse to pay anything of significance out. As such an AWP can genuinely be 'due to pay' unlike a random machine, many AWPs have 'shows' and 'tells' that a seasoned player can recognise.
From a player perspective this has meant that they're massively vulnerable to manipulation, methods, emptiers, code exploits and all manner of weird things - and indeed AWPs out on site today still often have all kinds of 'player advantage' stuff in them. (Sometimes by accident, sometimes by design.)
Also, AWPs often contain genuine skill features where the more skilful a player is, the better he can do.
Don't be deceived by the relatively small jackpots that AWPs have (over the years this has gone from £4.80 (circa 1990) to £70 (current day)), as AWPs have always had the ability to go on 'streaks' which equates to many large wins and/or jackpots in quick succession. Even the old £4.80 AWPs could streak to as much as £50 or £60, and the current £70 AWPs can repeat twice to make a 'true' jackpot of £210.
MaliA wrote:
In the UK, in unlicensed premises, it might be different elsewhere :
What I don't understand is, and something that has never been satisfactorily explained to me is this:
With class C machines (most commonly found in pubs and places), the minimum pay-out percentage is 70%.
So: GamblerX sticks £100,000 in, he'll get at least £70,000 back over those 100,000 spins (at £1 a go) by law.
The law of averages says he is always going to lose.
The law of the land says he is always going to lose.
The people that run the machine say he is always going to lose as they won’t set it to pay out 101%.So, over time, you’re never going to win more than you’ll stick in.
What I don't understand is, and something that has never been satisfactorily explained to me is this:
With class C machines (most commonly found in pubs and places), the minimum pay-out percentage is 70%.
So: GamblerX sticks £100,000 in, he'll get at least £70,000 back over those 100,000 spins (at £1 a go) by law.
The law of averages says he is always going to lose.
The law of the land says he is always going to lose.
The people that run the machine say he is always going to lose as they won’t set it to pay out 101%.So, over time, you’re never going to win more than you’ll stick in.
/Mali with tin-opener in hand, worms wriggling all over the floor
Ah. You'd think so, wouldn't you? (I used to think like this as well, before finding out a little of how UK non-random type fruit machines actually behave in practice)
There's a novel in here, there really is, but very briefly as time is short this end: The reality is very, very different. As AE alludes to in his posts, it isn't a level playing field with UK fruit machines, or at least many of them. Numerous machines are prone to what are known in "the trade" as emptiers, methods, manipulators. Whatever euphemism one cares to use though, they are all basically the same type of thing: a means - often entirely counter-intuitive and very, very specific (like just playing one particular 'feature' and ignoring all others, and even then playing it in a very, very specific way etc.) - of bypassing the machine's supposed pre-determined payout profile. In effect, enabling a player who has "the knowledge" for that particular machine to gain big payouts and walk away significantly in profit, every time (assuming the machine has been nicely filled up by "normal" players, although even this isn't always a prerequisite; some emptiers always work even if the machine is quite literally penniless). Usually however, although not always, these illicit payouts are still metered and accounted for by the machine, meaning that it must subsequently recoup these losses from future players, to get itself back on percentage. Of course, this has the effect of anyone not in the know nearly always losing. (This is what happened to me, and it is what finally - after some 15-20 years - got me off the machines for good).
So you can see that it is perfectly possible for a machine to pay 70% (in fact they're usually set to around 78%) and still have the effect of making a few people very rich and everyone else loses their shirt. For the pro player, then, with access to these 'secrets' (often paid for information AFAIK), the pub fruit machine can be, and often is, a highly lucrative and reliable income source - 78% payout and all.
I find it easier to explain with roulette.
Lets say you spin the wheel 37,000,000 times, on average each number will come up 1 million times, so if you bet £1 on 0 each time, you would expect to walk away with £36,000,000 (down £1,000,000), however, randomness doesn't work like that. There will be a point where 0 would have come often than 1 in 37 times. Imagine the extreme, the first 1 million times you spin the wheel it comes up 0, so if you stop at that point you would walk away with £36,000,000 having bet £1,000,000.
So the plan is, I guess, to keep on betting until you are ahead of the curve.
Malc
Lets say you spin the wheel 37,000,000 times, on average each number will come up 1 million times, so if you bet £1 on 0 each time, you would expect to walk away with £36,000,000 (down £1,000,000), however, randomness doesn't work like that. There will be a point where 0 would have come often than 1 in 37 times. Imagine the extreme, the first 1 million times you spin the wheel it comes up 0, so if you stop at that point you would walk away with £36,000,000 having bet £1,000,000.
So the plan is, I guess, to keep on betting until you are ahead of the curve.
Malc
If anyone's interested enough to try the stuff that Cavey's talking about for real, there are loads of emulated fruit machines that have rips, emptiers, traps, free wins, and exploits in them - and with it being emulation they all work exactly as they did out in the wild.
Some of them really are quite eye-watering.
Like Cavey, I got fucking DESTROYED by AWPs back in the day (early 1990s was my worst phase), having no idea whatsoever just how amazingly bent they were. It was only really after the fruit machine emulation scene took off and brought lots of players together that the worms escaped from the can and people like me and Cavey well and truly got our eyes opened.
Cavey decided to just walk away and never play the fucking things again, I decided to get my hands dirty and get a piece of the pie for myself
Some of them really are quite eye-watering.
Like Cavey, I got fucking DESTROYED by AWPs back in the day (early 1990s was my worst phase), having no idea whatsoever just how amazingly bent they were. It was only really after the fruit machine emulation scene took off and brought lots of players together that the worms escaped from the can and people like me and Cavey well and truly got our eyes opened.
Cavey decided to just walk away and never play the fucking things again, I decided to get my hands dirty and get a piece of the pie for myself
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