The presidential style debates didn't help there, either. I think they made an enormous impact on the outcome (and arguably a good one overall - the tories would absolutely have been worse without the lib dems in), but they haven't helped the public understanding of how our system actually works at all.
Re: grassroots stuff - you may well be right. I'm inclined to give the locals here a little credit, as they were smart enough to elect the best MP for the area despite generally disliking his party, and I think a lot of them will see through the bullshit in the 'no' campaign, and simply make up their own minds one way or the other.
For the record, I'm not saying that any 'no' voting is a bad idea - there are certainly reasons to vote that way. But the official campaign by that group has been pretty dishonest.
Re: grassroots stuff - you may well be right. I'm inclined to give the locals here a little credit, as they were smart enough to elect the best MP for the area despite generally disliking his party, and I think a lot of them will see through the bullshit in the 'no' campaign, and simply make up their own minds one way or the other.
For the record, I'm not saying that any 'no' voting is a bad idea - there are certainly reasons to vote that way. But the official campaign by that group has been pretty dishonest.
Talking about the debates & the UK media's fucked up priorities, see if Nick Clegg got himself to fuck & resigned I reckon the belming masses would look more favourably on the Lib Dems and would in turn be more likely to vote yes to AV. Nae cunt seems to care about the parties any more, just the gurning cunts that they see on the tellybox. Plus everyone loves a good sacrifice.
I'll be quite surprised if Clegg's reign doesn't end in a backstabbing a lá Charles Kennedy. You could be right though - it'd be a lot harder to pin hate on the Lib Dems than on Clegg specifically right now.
At the back of every LibDem's mind must be the split in the old Liberal Party between Lloyd George and Asquith. Although The Goat/Welsh Wizard did almost succeed in tearing the Conservative Party apart too before his defenestration.
sinister agent wrote:
The presidential style debates didn't help there, either. I think they made an enormous impact on the outcome (and arguably a good one overall - the tories would absolutely have been worse without the lib dems in), but they haven't helped the public understanding of how our system actually works at all.
Quite, and Blair also pandered to that, becoming 'presidential' in the way he acted. To some extent, that's why I didn't mind Brown becoming leader for a while—he wasn't of that photogenic 'look at me' crowd, to which every one of the three main party leaders currently belongs. There was also a certain cachet in saying you'd vote Lib Dem, which came off the back of those debates, but it's pretty damn clear people were either lying or confused, because Lib Dem support backtracked shockingly in the few days before the election.
Quote:
For the record, I'm not saying that any 'no' voting is a bad idea - there are certainly reasons to vote that way. But the official campaign by that group has been pretty dishonest.
I agree that there are reasons to vote not, not least if you actually like the FPTP and single-party-leading system. Some people want winner-takes-all and hate the idea of compromise in government (a.k.a. They Never Get Anything Done). But from a system standpoint, the vast majority of AV's drawbacks exist in FPTP too (as outlined in that jungle animals video I linked to yesterday), but it at least offers some benefits that FPTP cannot match, notably practically obliterating the spoiler effect. This, of course, is why the Tories are petrified of AV—they've ended up in government way more than they would have done by nationwide spoilers splitting the 'liberal' vote between the Lib Dems (and earlier versions/equivalents of the party) and Labour. AV will knock Labour a little, but it could hit the Tories hard, which, presumably, is why we see Labour tactically being in favour of AV. (If AV wins, just watch Labour clam up utterly on further reform—no way in hell will they back AV+, STV or any other PR-oriented system.)
Wullie wrote:
Talking about the debates & the UK media's fucked up priorities, see if Nick Clegg got himself to fuck & resigned I reckon the belming masses would look more favourably on the Lib Dems and would in turn be more likely to vote yes to AV. Nae cunt seems to care about the parties any more, just the gurning cunts that they see on the tellybox. Plus everyone loves a good sacrifice.
The smart money's on Clegg resigning 9–12 months before the next election, assuming the coalition survives. Farron's looking fairly likely to take over. (EDIT: For the record, I'm not sure he'd be a particularly good choice, but there you go.)
Part of the problem with the Lib Dems, of course, is that a chunk of the top-tier and some of the younger MPs are a lot more Tory than the grass-roots of the party. It won't need a sneaky fucking over as per what happened to Charles Kennedy—he'll be out on his arse in a rather simpler manner.
CraigGrannell wrote:
Yup, but it shows how fucking stupid the public is. Yes, it's all Clegg's fault, despite the Tories being the senior partners in the coalition. Oh, and let's look at the vote, shall we?
Party :: FPTP :: AV :: STV
Tories :: 307 :: 281 :: 246
Labour :: 258 :: 262 :: 207
Lib Dem :: 57 :: 79 :: 162
Others :: 28 :: 28 :: 35
So under AV, we'd have a 281:79 ratio instead of 307:57—a bit more clout for the Libs and therefore a less Tory government. (Or, possibly, we'd have gotten a Lab/Lib coalition, since Labour might have argued they only won 19 fewer seats and therefore still had enough of a mandate.) But under STV, everything wildly changes, and we'd have had a 5:3 Tory:Lib coalition, or an even closer split for Lab:Lib, either of which would have resulted in a radically different government.
Party :: FPTP :: AV :: STV
Tories :: 307 :: 281 :: 246
Labour :: 258 :: 262 :: 207
Lib Dem :: 57 :: 79 :: 162
Others :: 28 :: 28 :: 35
So under AV, we'd have a 281:79 ratio instead of 307:57—a bit more clout for the Libs and therefore a less Tory government. (Or, possibly, we'd have gotten a Lab/Lib coalition, since Labour might have argued they only won 19 fewer seats and therefore still had enough of a mandate.) But under STV, everything wildly changes, and we'd have had a 5:3 Tory:Lib coalition, or an even closer split for Lab:Lib, either of which would have resulted in a radically different government.
How are these 'results' generated? I certinately didn't express a second option at last year's ballot.
On the basis of polling and intention. Regardless, you can estimate STV on the basis of pure PR (although that weights slightly higher to Other and Lib Dem and away from Con and Lab).
Delightfully, some members of my re-enacting troop have decided that in honour of the Big Day we should hold a Victorian Wedding Party on Friday evening. I'm just hoping that nobody whips out Prince Albert...
Oh, do people want a 'proper' AV poll? Or perhaps a sweepstake?
William Hill are offering 1/5 on 'No'; 10/3 on 'Yes'
William Hill are offering 1/5 on 'No'; 10/3 on 'Yes'
Kern wrote:
Oh, do people want a 'proper' AV poll? Or perhaps a sweepstake?
William Hill are offering 1/5 on 'No'; 10/3 on 'Yes'
William Hill are offering 1/5 on 'No'; 10/3 on 'Yes'
Alarmingly, 100/1 on Will being jilted! *
*Might be a publicity stunt
NBC news appear to have completed their invasion of Trafalgar Square, and have constructed their own little shack and compound there. Outside Buckingham Palace looks pretty crazy as well - there's some odd "media centre" that's sprung up over the past month or so.
Squirt wrote:
NBC news appear to have completed their invasion of Trafalgar Square, and have constructed their own little shack and compound there. Outside Buckingham Palace looks pretty crazy as well - there's some odd "media centre" that's sprung up over the past month or so.
When is this?
sinister agent wrote:
When is this?
Can't make it, sorry.
Bloomin' eck - having taken a lunchtime stroll down the Mall ( as is my wont ) the place is bonkers. People camping, TV crews wondering about, camera towers and cranes lurching about. There are a lot of people sitting out with their tents, marking out their patch already.
While it's tricky to feel too sorry for them, I do hope the get a chance to sneak off and have a proper wedding that isn't just one big piece of PR 
I do like the way they invited Thatcher and Major but not Blair and Brown, though
I do like the way they invited Thatcher and Major but not Blair and Brown, though
A bar in Truro was offering a free drink to anyone who attends their Royal Wedding bash in a wedding dress. Which is quite appropriate, as you can't have a Royal Wedding without a few queens.
I was flicking through the Order of Service (CONTAINS SPOILERS!) to see what music was being performed (no Elton John! Huzzah!) and was shocked to learn Will's middle names:
Which begs the question... is he named for the Sun King, or in the hope that he can keep his head when all about are losing theirs?
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Which begs the question... is he named for the Sun King, or in the hope that he can keep his head when all about are losing theirs?
Quote:
There was also a certain cachet in saying you'd vote Lib Dem, which came off the back of those debates, but it's pretty damn clear people were either lying or confused, because Lib Dem support backtracked shockingly in the few days before the election.
I've got a vague recollection that after the debates the media went into panic mode and did some mental Clegg-slagging? Not sure. They've been doing it ever since, certainly and it's worked big time.
Grim... wrote:
While it's tricky to feel too sorry for them, I do hope the get a chance to sneak off and have a proper wedding that isn't just one big piece of PR
I do like the way they invited Thatcher and Major but not Blair and Brown, though
I do like the way they invited Thatcher and Major but not Blair and Brown, though
Someone mentioned this today. Apparently Major is their godfather or something (I assume they're brother and sister, yes?). Thatcher, of course, was invited because failing to invite her would have breached the seventh seal.
Both other parties and a lot of commentators suddenly turned on the Lib Dems far more than is normal after those debates, yeah.
sinister agent wrote:
Both other parties and a lot of commentators suddenly turned on the Lib Dems far more than is normal after those debates, yeah.
The right-wing press freaked out that the Tories wouldn't win, and so hit the LDs as hard as possible for the rest of the run-up. But even so, the polling on the day was well short of the actual vote. The polls, essentially (and for whatever reason), were total bollocks.
It's a massive pity, really. The last thing the UK needs is to slide into a two-party system, but that's exactly what's going to happen. And there was me naïvely thinking the UK might grow up a bit from a political standpoint.
CraigGrannell wrote:
sinister agent wrote:
Both other parties and a lot of commentators suddenly turned on the Lib Dems far more than is normal after those debates, yeah.
The right-wing press freaked out that the Tories wouldn't win, and so hit the LDs as hard as possible for the rest of the run-up. But even so, the polling on the day was well short of the actual vote. The polls, essentially (and for whatever reason), were total bollocks.
It's a massive pity, really. The last thing the UK needs is to slide into a two-party system, but that's exactly what's going to happen. And there was me naïvely thinking the UK might grow up a bit from a political standpoint.
This is basically why I voted Lib Dem last year. Hoping for the bigger picture, and all that. On the plus side, our local bloke won again and he is brilliant, but it's the principle of the thing, and he understood that himself.
Kate to be Duchess of Tabland.
People in London seem to be having fun with the royal Wedding. I'm quite excited.
Dress looks lovely. As does Catherine.
We're drinking wine and eating strawberries, lovely 
the dress is gorgeous, I have now fallen a little bit in love with Kate Middleton.
the dress is gorgeous, I have now fallen a little bit in love with Kate Middleton. And she's punctual. I like a bride who is punctual. I think they key to all good marriages is timekeeping. Didn't think much of the minibuses, though.
Samantha Cameron is wearing Burberry and no hat, I think. David Beckham was looking very smart and happy to be there, Mrs Beckham wasn't looking terriby happy. Prince Philip looked really, really happy, as did our Queen.
TPT has a fucking awesome hat.
QILF.
That was a nice wedding.
Drinking a pint from my commeratuve pint glass.
you can totally see her nipples in that dress.
Decca wrote:
you can totally see her nipples in that dress.
pics pls.
What has been seen....
He is going well bald.
Blimey, all that must've cost Mr Middleton a fair whack. Glad the taxpayers didn't have to foot the bill!
I watched it. Fantastic choice of music and readings (it wasn't that bit from Corinithians!) and an excellent spectacle. Kate and her sister are HOT. As is Princess Beatrice....
The enthusiasm of the congregation singing 'Jerusalem' reminded me of how it's the finest patriotic song ever written, and ought to be our national anthem.
Is it me or does Brenda overdo the lipstick these days?
The enthusiasm of the congregation singing 'Jerusalem' reminded me of how it's the finest patriotic song ever written, and ought to be our national anthem.
Is it me or does Brenda overdo the lipstick these days?
Someone made a reasons for watching the royal wedding pie chart
I was watching the wedding today, remarking to myself what a lucky bastard that William is, being rich as fuck and shagging Kate Middleton, when suddenly it occurred to me... I have become my father. Just as he fancied the first wife of the current heir to the throne, I fancy the missus of the guy next in line.
This is a troubling development.
This is a troubling development.
They appear to like each other and are not cousins, a major step forward for royal weddings.
He appears to be a far more genuine guy that his father, maybe they can dust off the Duke of Windsor title again and have Charles stand down.
Thought Harry looked like had a good drink last night, he looked rough as shit during the ceremony, as for him and Kate’s sister I thought the sister had more to fear from Prince Phillip on the balcony.
I got a day off so good luck to them both.
He appears to be a far more genuine guy that his father, maybe they can dust off the Duke of Windsor title again and have Charles stand down.
Thought Harry looked like had a good drink last night, he looked rough as shit during the ceremony, as for him and Kate’s sister I thought the sister had more to fear from Prince Phillip on the balcony.
I got a day off so good luck to them both.
Didn't like the lace on the dress, and she had less meat on her than Skeletor.
Meh.
Meh.
Anyone dead? Are they divorced yet?
I don't think that's her nipples but the darts in the dress that are used for getting a perfect fit.
She does look very thin now, but she's stunning when she smiles. I think the weight loss has made her face look a little older and sterner when she isn't smiling, but if ever being happy transformed a face more than hers I'd like to see it.
I saw some news highlights. I hope they had fun and that the relationship is long and happy.
I'm glad it's over so Twitter isn't full of hundreds of tweets from people going on and on and on and on and on and on about how very little they cared about the Royal Wedding. If those people hadn't have spent so much of their energy going into great detail and at some length as to how much they apparently didn't care, there wouldn't have been a tenth of the fuss about it. Idiots.
She does look very thin now, but she's stunning when she smiles. I think the weight loss has made her face look a little older and sterner when she isn't smiling, but if ever being happy transformed a face more than hers I'd like to see it.
I saw some news highlights. I hope they had fun and that the relationship is long and happy.
I'm glad it's over so Twitter isn't full of hundreds of tweets from people going on and on and on and on and on and on about how very little they cared about the Royal Wedding. If those people hadn't have spent so much of their energy going into great detail and at some length as to how much they apparently didn't care, there wouldn't have been a tenth of the fuss about it. Idiots.
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