Be Excellent To Each Other

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8237886.stm

I'd not like to be the one to have the final say in this case. I'd bloody love to know what everyone here makes of it though, so should 'A' be moved to 'Cell Block H' or kept with the male schedule one offenders?

Obviously BBC facts notwithstanding, I feel that is the relevant bit. He is in gaol for rape, he still has the capacity to perform that again. Putting him in with female prisoners is, I would say, more of an offence to their "human rights" than keeping him in a male prison.

Hmm. If a woman had raped another woman she would still be put in a female prison and if a male raped another male he would still be put in a male prison.

I suppose that it depends on when the prison service classes someone as 'male' or 'female'? This cannot be the first transsexual in the prison system - are they considered to be of the opposite sex when they are still 'pre-op'?

My instincts make me feel the way that Bobbyarro does, but I think they have to look for some precedent in a non-rape case.

Quite so, Bobbayaro.

Of course she'll be on testosterone suppressants presently so there will be an argument there as well.

Fairly certain the female prisoners in her new nick would treat her the same as they would a regular male rapist and killer, were one left in their block. For that reason alone I'd be inclined to keep her where she is for the sake of her own safety. Plus I'm sure the other inmates where she is presently are very fond of her.

Either way it's not worth an additional 80k just to accommodate this individual. I know plenty of transsexuals who don't resort to this sort of behaviour regardless of how difficult gender dysphoria has made their lives. Some of there are brilliant folk who can't get the money together for the reassignment surgeries they want, give it to them instead.

Well, a man raped and a man manslaughtered, and was put in a man prison. What's to stop me going for the swap if I fancy doing my life in a ladies' nick then? Plenty of evidence of my 'emotionally disturbed state' on my record, poor me needs my reassignment, see?

Yes, I quite agree. They haven't helped themselves by allowing this really.

Maybe there needs to be a further look at what rights prisoners can reasonably have.

Well they've got the vote, they can buy drugs off/shag wardens and most of my clients who go down get let out early because of overcrowding so frankly the only right we have left to award them is the right never to be sent to prison ever ever ever.

If you don't like it either behave yourself or don't get caught.

'For all purposes?' But whose purposes?

If she were an athlete, she could not compete as a woman. I cannot see how she's be seen by her doctor as a female patient as that uncomfortable smear test is going to be even more uncomfortable for her.

I think the 'for all purposes' bit has limitations - there need to be a decision made as to whether the prison service is one of them.

Also, if all it takes to be a woman is some hair removal procedure and hormone pills then what happens if she stops taking those pills? Would that 'undo' all of the changes she has gone through? Would she not then revert to being a very smooth-faced man?

Well that's the thing - autopsies on male-female transsexuals show a degree of consistency in hypothalamus size, similar to that of a genetic woman. There's a big difference between male and female hypothalamusses, apparently. Whether that's the hormones or just a female brain (which would explain the whole business anyway) or not is still up for debate. So I recall.

So if this individual has a real female brain, what then? Considering all that testosterone from the balls must have been making them feel fairly weird since puberty.

Is it possible that the drugs and hormones being taken are causing these physical differences, though? Would the brain have exhibited these same signs if the person hadn't had any hormone therapy? Was this the state of the brain before they decided to become a transsexual, I wonder? (I really have no idea - I had never heard of this factoid before you mentioned it).

Can't say I particularly care either way, so long as he/she/it is banged up. If Prisoner Cell Block H is anything to go by, he/she/it may well have a tougher time in the women's nick anyway.

Why is it going to cost an extra £80k a year to keep her segragated when s/he's already in a single cell in a vulnerable prisoners unit. What's the difference?

Paperwork.

Everyone has the capacity to perform rape. You don't have to have a cock.

She's been recognised by the courts as female. She should be moved.

I agree totally. Keeping her in a male prison is a violation of her human rights, no matter what crimes she has committed beforehand.

OK, you pay the 80 grand then, I can't be arsed to.

Can't we just burn the paperwork instead?