Be Excellent To Each Other

SHUT THE FUCK UP BEEX!

It's time for a thread about a game.

Suda51 is going to, once more, release a game that'll probably just wind me up that it's not a direct follow up to the wonderfully insane Killer7. Does it look shit? Does it look like an mangabonganza game?

Actually it looks like No More Heroes crossed with Afro Samurai. Or it looks like a Manga Lollipop Chainsaw. If it's the latter I'm going to kick Suda nipples off.

Watch the video! Post comments! Wax lyrical why you love/hate Killer7/No More Heroes! Completely ignore Shadows of the Damned! Never ever mention that rap from the skull at the end! Please. Never.

Ever.

Or that level with the big gun. Oh dear. Christ, that was mega shit in parts.

Anyway, onto a cool looking trailermething:

Big Boner, that was the level...

I've been giving Suda 51 a bit of a free pass ever since (the magnificent) Killer 7. He's not made anything even as close to as good as that, and even teaming up with (probably the best game designer) Shinji Mikami again didn't result in anything much better.

That said, this does look hot.

New Trailer herewith.

New New Trailer

And what does it have? Well, girls with boobs. Bouncing boobs. And, well, a pair of Gigalo glasses that lets you see women with only their undercrackers on.

Oh, and he goes to the moon on a job wearing a big fish bowl.

All hope of anything as dark as Killer 7 is quickly being pissed away.

Release date confirmed: 1st August 2013. If this ain't awesome I'm going to ..., who I am kidding, it's going to be terrible isn't it?

Generally 'mid' reviews from what I can see

Destructiod gave it a 7 out of 10 : http://www.destructoid.com/review-kille ... 0739.phtml

IGN gave it 5 out of 10 : http://m.uk.ign.com/articles/2013/08/27 ... ead-review

CVG 6 out of 10 : http://www.computerandvideogames.com/42 ... re-review/

Beat me by 2 minutes to posting the same!

Given who created it - i'll probably still pick it up when it hits the £15 - £20 mark because i'm sure there will be some parts of it which will be fun

5/10 on Eurogamer. But according to reviewers, every game is sexist nowadays.

Suda's Instagram account is hilarious. I wouldn't be surprised if he made the game so he could dress up 3 ultra hot babes as the game characters and travel about doing interviews and shows. No doubt enjoying a drink or two after work. Randy shit.

Yeah, it's PC gone mad innit?

I did laugh at "fluid ounces." Randy shit.

So what? That's like complaining that porn should be about gender equality. It's just business. If the developers think this is going to sell them more copies let them be. They're probably stupid and end up alienating a big part of their audience, but they should have artistic freedom and do as they please.

Lately there's these idea that video games should have a moral mission and promote gender equality or environmentalism or whatever. Games have been stupidly violent for a long time and game journalist always defended the artistic freedom of the game creators.

There's also a scene in Saints Row III that left me really unconfortable. You're job is to save "bitches" from ship containers. So far, not many problems, except for calling bitches to women who are obviosuly being enslaved for prostitution rings. But after "saving" the women, your choice is either to return them to original "owners" for money or put them to work on your own gang brothels. The fact that the game didn't gave me an option to free them bothered me at first, but i have to respect the artistic freedom of the creators, and the game is pretty amoral so the message was also that you and your friends are also scumbags. This is pretty much the same thing.

That recent RPS review about skullgirls also bothered me. So there is a market for people who love to play as huge breasted girls kicking each others. So what? Let them enjoy their game. Not every game must be for everyone.

This kind of behavior just shows how much gaming journalists need mainstream approval for their hobby. The whole Hotline Miami 2 rape incident just proves it. How different is that to the horrible rape scene in "Irreversible"? Even though many people hated the film for being so uncomfortable, i don't remember any film critic being against Gaspar Noe right to make that scene.

Obviously game makers should be allowed to make whatever they want.

And games journalists should be allowed to express an opinion on it.

You're not talking about journalists saying a game shouldn't be made, you're talking about journalists doing their job and expressing their opinion on games.

Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

Games reviewers should stick to reviewing games.

There's lots of reviewers out there. If you're reading reviews from people who focus on aspects of games you're uninterested in, then I suggest you find other reviewers, rather than moan that someone isn't writing the review you want to read. Unless you happen to be the editor who commissioned the review, that is.

Yes i am. This is the point. Many many interviews mention how a particular game should be made less offensive, or that a particular scene is morally reprehensible and should have been left out. Does any of these critics think that the fellatio/cunnilingus ratio in Brazzers videos is skewed in favor of male viewers when they're watching and that they're such hypocrites?

I have to draw another comparison to Irreversible. Did many critics think that the rape scene should be left out? Or that was all part of the artistic freedom of the author and maybe if they didn't liked it, the movie wasn't just made for them, but not arguing that it should have been made different.

And i have to mention Skullgirls again because it's such a harmless little game. So maybe my wife wouldn't play it (or even me), but the game wasn't made either for me or my wife. So why not judge the game for its merits and failings keeping in mind its audience?

Ok, so i'm rambling a lot. English is not my native language, and maybe i'm not making myself easily understandable. so i hope i'm not misinterpreted.

Why have any opinion on anything! The designer intended for that shitty difficulty spike following a poorly placed checkpoint and a dull unskippable cutscene to frustrate the player, that was the emotional response they were going for. Stop censoring artistic freedom!

Citation needed, please show me where a games journalist has said that a game shouldn't exist.

is that even a valid comparison? You're talking about pure game design which is what reviews usually are focused on. The whole debate about misogyny is in the same league as the stupid "the citizen kane of videogames" discussion that i complained about in the Bioshock Infinite thread. I think the comments on the Rockpapershotgun website about the Skullgirls reviews show how much this has got out of hand in a way that is interfering with game reviewing.

It's the same about the violence and rape discussion. Many people argue that rape is worse because it's a daily occurrence in our countries everyday live and because of that it's a tabboo. Decapitations and acts of torture are ok because they're almost on fantasy land and we can't relate to them? right?

Does this even make in sense? What about all the people that have to deal daily with drug lords and gang activities that violence, torture and decapitations are part of their daily lives? Are we so out of tune with what happens in the world that only 1st world citizens concerns are what matters? So shouldn't these issues also be tabboo because they matter so much to some people living in some parts of the world?

This is most exemplified by Cara Ellison preview of Hotline Miami 2. She's one of the best and most consistently amusing game journalists out there and i love to read her articles, but maybe the fact that she was so affected by a rape scene because it means so much to her as a woman, speaks volumes of our detachment to violence in general.

It's really not. Or, at least, it's no one else's point so it's difficult to work out who're you shrilly arguing with here. It's certainly not me or Lewie or even the guy on Eurogamer.

Because during that review the guy started rambling about curtains?

Fucked if I've read it.

Ah. Silly me.

Beef curtains? Am I right, gents? Fnar fnar.

*shoots self*

I'm not sure why but I just snorted with laugher at this causing Mrs B to look at me askance. I mean the askance looking I understand, it's the snorting that was unexpected.

If a creator is so scared of a bit of criticism that they self censor, they need to grow a backbone.

So now you're citing Cara's PC Gamer piece (Although at this point I should say that Cara is one of my best friends). She was one of the most vocal fans around of the first game (irrc, she was one of the first journos to be quoted on the official website), and she felt a duty to give an honest appraisal of how her hands on with the sequel made her feel. I'm confused about why this is problematic for you. She's not saying it shouldn't be made, she's not even saying you shouldn't play it, she is just telling anyone who cares to know what her experience of playing the game is.

And despite someone writing some words on the internet, it seems like Hotline Miami 2 hasn't been cancelled yet. We're all still going to be playing it when it comes out.

There are plenty of reviews that are focussed on pure game design (which you think for some reason excludes story?), so read those if you don't like that PC Gamer write up.

It's just business. If the journos think this is going to get them more hits, let them be. Let me enjoy these articles. Not every article must be for everyone.

Aye, but "ban this sick filth" journalism does also exist, and seems to hold video games to different standards than films, etc.

Note - I largely mean the MSM here.

If there are boobs in an 18 rated video game, it gets talked about - a lot. If there is actual sex that you can actually "see" (the kind you get in all sorts of 15 rated films nowadays) there's a massive deal made.

And that's just daft.

In Ultima VII Part 2 there was a bit where one of the characters casts 'vas nudis' and their clothes disappear and then there's nudey lesbian dancing.

That is all.

Curiosity and Grim said in a few words what i meant to say in my rambling text.



That's why i said it exemplifies so much of what i was talking about. She was ok with a game that had you drilling holes in peoples heads, but a raping scene is way too shocking. Obviously i feel bad using her as an example since she's such a funny writer that usually addresses these gender issues in a balanced and sensible way.

I liked Shadows of the Damned just enough for me to finish it.

That rap...

But! The Damned song at the end credits!

This looks interesting.

So now your argument is that rape in games is exactly the same as violence in games?

Because I think she did quite a good job of explaining why she doesn't feel that way.

If you disagree, that's cool, but it's not cool that your response should be to want to shut down the discussion entirely.

I've just read that Hotline Miami 2 preview and, like Cara, I walked away from it conflicted. First of all, I haven't played it (obviously) but gather that the tutorial plays out as some directed rape porn movie that's only revealed after it's complete, concluding with the pixelated rape by the protagonist, Pig Face. Her offence seems just to be "oh my god, there's a rape" with an inability to contextualise the scene. Who knows what the story becomes - she doesn't mention anything about the rest of the demo - or Pig Face's own part to play in what will apparently have multiple characters.

It's Lara all over again, right? Because they only see a snippet they can't see the overal picture. You never heard of Lara's sexual assault once it was released, right? Pig Face might get his comeuppance; the director might too; it might show something about Pig Face's world or, I don't know, only I read that one article.

Anyhoo, it's probably why this outrage is more common nowadays. You don't get movie previews where someone had seen ten minutes of, say, Saw and wrote "It's disgusting. He sawed his leg off!"

Or maybe they did. I can't remember.

That article was only 1 page, right?

On the other hand:

In any event, it's a rape porn movie! If that's what it is, don't moan about women's rights in a rape porn movie. It's a rape porn movie for goodness sakes. If she doesn't want a tutorial with a rape porn movie then rape porn movie rape porn movie. Rape porn movie.

Geesh, rape porn movie.

Dunno how many pages it is, I only read it online (unless you mean was it split onto multiple pages online, in which case no).

I've not played that particular build, but I gather she just played it at Rezzed, where it's a consumer show, so you can't really spend a huge amount of time on a thing because there are always big queues, and it is a consumer event, not a press event. It might have even been on a timer, or ended immediately after that section.

The time for considered appraisals of the entire game is after the game is done, this was just a preview based on a brief play of the opening section.

If that's not what you want to read, don't read articles with "hands on" in the title. Wait for "review".

Having spoke to her about this, she deliberately didn't contextualise any more than the game does. You are correct that there is potentially lots of details that could change the scene (Hotline Miami even has a track record of rewinding and then viewing a scene again from a different perspective, with power sticking with the player character), but her point was that the game intentionally hides the fact that it is "just a movie" from you, and so her reactions up to that point were totally valid.

I'm assuming that's not for me but, like I said, I only read it to see what you girls were moaning about.



That's perfectly fine. It sounds pretty shocking and the reveal, which I've totally gone and spoiled for myself after this (hnnngh), was probably a great blindside. However she went on to bemoan the image of women in games despite the reveal which is, um, uncool, I suppose.

Ok then. The conversation escalated into the rape discussion (my fault i know), when we started discussing much more harmless issues. But it really annoys me, which is exemplified by the Kick-Ass 2 hysteria about a rape scene, how much rape is a no-no issue. Comedians making fun of people with HIV, cancer or disabilities is ok, even making jokes about paedophilia is ok, when it's basically about the raping of children, but if one makes a joke about rape everybody goes insane. This kind of hypocrisy baffles me.

I should really stop dragging the conversation this way, since it's the constant cries of "sexism! misogyny!" each time there are some cleavage in a videogame that is the worst culprit.

I think you're being hilariously reductive there but you've managed to incoherently meld such a massive number of different sources, stories, opinions and positions in your few posts that frankly it's near impossible to even start responding meaningfully. Maybe you could put all the other stuff you keep swinging to aside and respond to what's actually been said about this actual game? At least to start with anyway.

Oh dear. Point missed by writer, possibly wilfully, so indignation may be expressed. Fair play, but it's a bit sad. Guts meter about the social ineptitude (and resulting lack of gentlemanliness) or stereotypical (Japanese) gamer. Expressed in a possibly 'sexist' (see also: 'risque', 'cheeky', 'naughty') manner because that is the vehicle used to articulate said social ineptitude.

How dare we objectify women in such a way? We'd never use games to objectify humans in other way, like killing them and stuff.

Would anyone like the soundtrack to this? I bought the collectors edition and it came with it which I can dropbox if you fancy?

Sounds good!

Whoops... I forgot about this.

Here you go.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/445 ... AMAOKA.rar

Cheers. Nearly didn't click into the thread, as I forgot about that

I play moar games.

Frankly, I had goosebumps when I pressed start and Killer7-esq sound effects came out my telly box. SQUEEEEE!

Then it turned into No More Heroes... Ah well. I liked that too, just nowhere near as much.

I haven't played much but at least I've had chance to play the Mondo-mission where you try and get blood to your head by checking a girl out when she ain't looking. Yes, it's hilarious the first time you dive your eyes down to stare at her boobs and zoom in while she's having a drink. Yes, it's also hilarious that checking out her legs is dangerous because your eyes need to wander all the way down there and she's only glimpsed away. Yes, it's also hilarious when you get caught gog-eyed with your face right at her tits and get a smack. I'm sure it'll get boring quickly but for Benny Hill-laughs you'll probably get at least one big hearty laugh at the absurdity of it all.

And the story is facking nuts already. Natch.

I have bedded a girl. Kinda. It's silly. No more, no less.

I'm still playing a unofficial sequel to No More Heroes though with the silly mini games replaced with not silly mini games.

It's has a silly manga story that just ain't up to the nonsense of Killer 7. I like the more serious tone though. Much better but Suda needs to go the whole way and go fucking dark, man. Plus, whereas the combat is much improved over, for example, lollipop chainsaw, coming off the back of DmC it just ain't as interesting and lacks depth.

It sure is a cel-shaded looker though and has some tremendous manga-esq art sheeeet going on. BUT the loading screens are ridiculous: popping up mid-cut scene and go on for far too long. He needs to sort that shit out. It's 2014, for Christ sakes.

There's only two Mondo girls!? What was the hoo-har about? Geesh.

No, there's 3, but I'll be damned if I'm doing challenges to get her nekked.

I'm gon tap that Latino's ass again.

Oh, yeah, finished and stuff. It was quite good but disposable. Which is exactly what I'll be doing with it now...

How hard is it to google stuff these days? There's so much bullshit out there and so many bloody sites reporting on the same old bollocks with google choosing to shove some crap I don't want to see in my cake hole.

I only want to look up "Killer 7: Killer is Dead" which is, apparently, a short story that Suda did to further explain the character Dan Smith from Killer 7 and has no relation to Killer is Dead the videogame. TRY TELLING THAT TO GOOGLE THOUGH. Fuck 'tards.