Be Excellent To Each Other

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012- ... n-consoles



Could be bloody good, this.

If Valve could pipe all existing Steam content into the living room in a way that can appeal to new customers, that's a vastly more compelling idea. And with the market shifting towards digital distribution, Steam's laissez-faire attitude to content control, user generated content, and patch distribution gives it a really solid unique selling point that sets it apart from the Xboxen and Playstations of this world. I think there's a real opportunity here, and I think Valve know it.

The OS is a open idea; we all know Valve has been looking at Linux a lot lately, and for Steambox to run Windows would make it vulnerable to Microsoft strongarming it if it started to take a big bite out of the Xbox. I wonder if the plan is for a Transgaming/Wine type layer to run Windows games on it. Lots of people have taken a pass at that over the years without much luck, though.

I think it has to be a mainstream box, with a pretty fixed spec. Modern gaming is strongly driven by online and online is influenced by the platform your mates use, so it needs to be popular with everyone. It has to be small and neat and tidy, which rules out standard PCIe changeable graphics cards and a lot of other user-replaceable gubbins. Basically, I think it needs to be much more a console that happens to play Steam games than a small PC with a Valve logo on the front.

Splinter thread for PC-master-race-versus-console-toting-prole argumnets: viewtopic.php?style=19&f=3&t=9159

Whereas I want it to be a PC with a badge on so I can use it as a media header as well.

Sure. What you want isn't what's going to make the most money for Valve, though.

Well, there's not much difference - I just want to be able to get at the OS (or for other people to be allowed to write things that can).

They'd be mental to not include a DLNA client and some way of using Netflix etc though.

Totally agree. The boxes under the TV have moved away from just playing games and can now do everything. I don't think punters would be content with a box that just plays games.

If the price is right for this thing, I could well be interested. According to SteamCalculator, I have 272 steam games, but as I'm spending more of my time in Ubuntu, I don't actually play any of them. If I had a nice, under-the-telly box, I'd be far more likely to use it than sat at my PC.

This has piqued my interest.

Good luck watching your .mkv files on the existing boxes.

One idea I've seen mooted for the controller is an integrated trackball or trackpad, as a couch-friendly way to make mouse based games playable (think point-and-click rather than FPSs). I think that's an intriguing idea.

Sure, but I want one that will actually play everything (see above).

I'm sure old Gabe knows what he's doing but I'd have thought most people who wanted to play PC games already have a gaming PC.

Fixed hardware running Steam on a non-MS platform is an intriguing concept though.

They've certainly picked the right time to go forward with it, high performance PC components have never been more compact and cooler running than they are now.

Steambox focus group:
"It needs to play MKV files!"
"Why?"
"So that cheapskates who by definition steal content rather than paying for it will be on our platform, the commercial success of which rests on the hope that people will pay for content and not steal it!"

This model didn't work out so well when Sony inadvertently adopted it for the PSP.

Didn't PSP sales go through the roof when people discovered you could play PS1 games on it?

I guess it's not hardware sales that are the main focus though.

Sure… And Sony sold each PSP on a slim margin then failed to make any actual profit because no-one bought any games. You see my point now?

Is that actually true?

AFAIK. Sony doesn't report PSP profit separately, which is often a sign all is not well. Certainly, in terms of sales and new game releases, the PSP was hopelessly moribund for the last few years of its life. It eked out a threadbare existence on Japanese sales of turn-based tactical RPGs, but other than that it was pretty sad.

By the way... Good work with the subtitle of the thread! May I be the first to wish you the best of luck with that

But why bother with it at all? It's a pointlessly aggressive approach to the subject.

Why not wait to see if any 'TEDIUM' occurs and then deal with it if it does?

It's occurring right now.

A more cynical man than me might suggest DocG was practically guaranteeing such a result with his decision to sub-title the thread as he did.

DOccyG is not a man who requires subtitles.

"Isn't that a market we would never have anyway, if we add that capability we'll probably get a few extra sales of games to those people, which we wouldn't ordinarily have"
"you're right!"
"Let's do it!"
"What's for lunch?"
"I think we are going for sushi"
"I hate sushi"
"They do other stuff too, or you can just have the vegetarian stuff"
"You guys never think about me when you go to lunch, why can't we just go for a curry?"
"A curry at lunchtime? No thanks, too heavy for me"
"I'll just get something from the canteen instead"
"Suit yourself"
"I will"
"Go on then"
"I'm going to"
"See you later then"
"Doubt it"
"cunt"
"cunt"

I think I'd be interested in something like this, but it will depend on price, as Devilman said, and what else it does, as TheVision said. If the games are out on both XBOX and STEAM, I think I'd go for the new xbox as it can do other stuff, as a preference.

Isn't this just going to be standardized hardware running "Steam's Big Picture mode"?

Just throw in your 360 game pad and your sorted.

The more I think about this, the more I don't see the point. Aren't people who use Steam more likely to be happy using a PC? And if they did want it on their TV, then the big picture mode is for them? I think they're going to struggle to attract new people.

Laptop style track pad in the middle of an xbox style controller might work if they can work out the ergonomics

Why settle with a trackpad when you can fit a screen in there? See where this is going?

Trackpads don't draw power, do they?

Maybe, but there have been quite a few people I've mentioned Steam to who don't have a clue what it is. Although the Steam client makes things easy enough as it is, if there was an off-the-shelf bit of kit that made it even easier, then there could be a market there.

I was talking to my brother yesterday about when we used to play Ghost Recon together and I told him that it often comes up dirt cheap on Steam sales and he still wasn't persuaded. If he had a little box that did all the work, I think he'd be up for it.

It's basically a new console, with a pre-made collection of awesome games that are generally for sale for cheapness via digital download.

Seems like a winning concept to me

Look at how vibrant the download games market is for iOS, compared to the far more controlled environment on the 360 and PS3. Steam is more open to devs than iOS is. That's the pitch, I think.

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I think I'd like that. I've nver used moonpoints to buy games for the xbox, but have spent monies on steam games and mobile games.

Perhaps it isn't meant so much as a fresh challenger to the EggsBox/PS3 rivalry but just as a handy option for those who want to get into the world of PC games without the fuss. A modest proposal that will stealthily snowball.

So the question indeed is whether this is going to be a loud attempt to attract the console demographic or simply an admirable ready-meal of a PC? If it is the former it will need some distinct flagship titles beyond the RTS as most console gamers will look and say, "But I can get that on the 3DOhGoOnBuyOne already." Console launches need flagship titles and bundles of hype and it would be very, very nice for Half Life 3 to raise a banner to lure people to this.

It'll be interesting to see if Microsoft, who have so long treated the PC gaming market with something akin to contempt, further stomp off in a hissy fit at this threat and deny us decent ports of their FPS Guns 'n' Problems Eggsbox games, or worse yet lock all future titles to an infernally nagging and intrusive Games for Windows system.

Oh no! etc.

The new players pitch, sure. How are they going to get existing Steam users to convert?

Actually, thinking about it, assuming the price is right, I can see existing PC owners buying a Steam Box not to replace their main PC, but as an addition.

I'd probably buy a Steam Box and hook it up to the big telly, even though my main PC would carry on being my primary games platform.

Given the openness of the Steam platform and the amazing cheapness of games, a Steam Box could become a viable XBLA replacement, which is basically all my 360 is for these days.

I'd be very interested in this as a way to get the usually cheaper PC version of games with the extra pretties that comes over and above the console version. But that alone doesn't justify sticking yet another game playing device under the TV so it would need to be a totally rock-solid media player (i.e. compatible with all current formats and with upgradeable codecs for future-proofing) and if they threw in a proper browser with Flash support that would tip me over the edge. Ideally it would just be a standardised Windows PC built that developers could test against to ensure compatibility because then you get all the functionality that Windows brings with it, but that's not essential.

I realise little of that necessarily makes sense from Valve's point of view but it's what I'd want before I'd think about it. It's a slightly different proposition when the next gen consoles start to appear mind because then it could be considered as an alternative platform in it's own right so you could actually get one instead of a new Xbox or whatever, but at the moment for people who already have console(s) it's harder to justify I think.

How in God's name did that happen?

Questions:

Can I get games that aren't on XBLA or PSN?

Will the games on Steam that are also on XBLA/PSN be better/worse?

Will the games on Steam that are also on XBLA/PSN be cheaper/mo 'spensive?

Yes. Dunno. Dunno.

1) Yes, quite a lot of stuff is PC exclusive simply because Steam is a much more open platform and far easier to release games on.

2) There's usually not much (if anything) in it for XBLA style games on a technical basis. I prefer XBLA for this style of game for the online leaderboards, simply because I have far more friends on XBLA. I suppose if there's a fairly large migration of people to Steam this could change.

3) Almost always cheaper, sometimes hugely so. Especially in sales and/or when they do Steam bundles.

As an example, Trine 2 is currently on my 'to get' list and a quick comparison has it on at 1200 moon points (so just over a tenner) on XBLA but currently £3 on Steam due to a sale. Although obviously XBLA/PSN do sales sometimes they're much more common on Steam and you could save a ludicrous amount of cash if you were willing to pick things up as the sales happen rather than on launch day. Even on launch day I think most stuff is cheaper on Steam than on the other platforms.

As to the actual game selection there are platform exclusives obviously (e.g. Journey, Shadow Complex) but the vast majority of XBLA/PSN stuff I've been interested in has also come out on the PC via Steam. Indeed I've got a list of 'to get' games specifically for the PC now because of cool indie shit that will likely never be seen on the other platforms so the exclusivity thing works both ways.

The cheapness of games through Steam (and GOG and Origin and so on) is a major factor IMO.

Yes your upfront costs are more with a PC, but the cash that can be saved on games is staggering.

As you say, if you're prepared to wait for the sales, then AAA games are £15, or £10, or less, often within three to six months of release.

Deus Ex Human Evolution has been down at £3.49 on Steam more than once, and Max Payne 3 was £14.99 after about three or four months.

I like the sound of this, I don't necessarily think it is aimed at "PC gamers" but at laptop gamers. I have a fair few games for steam, but can't play all of them as my laptop gets too hot, I am not going to buy a gaming rig to play a few £5 steam sale games, but I might well pick up something like this if it came in at the right price.

(1) Yes. There will also be games on XBLA and PSN that won't ever appear on Steam.
Steam is not a 'more open platform'. Its a PC games shop (what we in the trade call a 'portal')
PC games have a very low barrier to entry, unlike console games, so the number of devs who write PC only games is quite high. Conversely, small devs who do stump up for console devkits & licensing often won't have the time or inclination to make PC versions. The big publishers (the EAs of the world) will still churn out the big titles on every platform that has a userbase enough to justify the time involved. So CoD & the likes will be everywhere. FTL & many other interesting indy projects would turn up on Steam way before seeing the light of day on consoles.

(2) Probably they will be either better or worse, or also fairly likely to be almost identical
Depends on the spec of the final box, but to a large extent it will just be the PC version which (a) makes it very attractive to developers, (b) adds the possibility of devs putting fixed quality modes as the target hardware is actually known. Could also have HW specific tweaks to make it run a bit better than on a random PC (which often aims for a medium current spec, with a few shaders & maybe larger textures for the higher settings)

(3) Yes and no. While there will be no 'licensing fee' of around $10 per copy that you get with console games that goes direct to the manufacturer, I would be surprised if the big budget games (CoD) would be any cheaper at launch on different platforms. Also, you can get XB & PS3 games on discounts from Amazon too, not to mention second hand. Steam stuff - you pay the price they say when they say it. Ok, they have sales too but I would not be overly surprised if there were NO disc drive and you could only buy the games via Steam, as that appears to be the point. Hence they have a console with only a single shop to use. Ever. (well, until someone cracks it, say 3 months after release) Historically, monopoly suppliers have not be known to be overly generous.

That sounds overwhelming positive in the main. As long as there's lots of different stuff that you can't get on the consoles and would otherwise miss, I'm in.

Has this thing got a price point yet?

Absolute pure speculation on my part, but I envisage £300, maybe £350.

If they can work with AMD using the new APU tech and get a slightly more powerful variant produced, you'd have a capable gaming PC in a tiny box retailing for under £300.

It also depends on whether or not they do different specs, sort of a LOW, MEDIUM and HIGH, or just have a single fixed spec.

They're going to want it to compete directly with the next-gen consoles on price, give or take.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say £199.

Valve seem to understand the digital market more than most, and should realise that getting boxes into peoples house so they can buy stuff is more important than anything else, and a cheap price point is essential.

I do have a small concern what this could do to the steam game prices, it wouldn't surprise me that if this takes off, the amount of sales and cheap goodness reduces...

Plus the choice of OS will make a difference to that price. I hope, like the Doc mentioned, that they explore the Linux route as it might lead to Steam coming out for the likes of Ubuntu eventually.