Be Excellent To Each Other

Should you put the milk in first or second?

I think it should be second to avoid scalding the milk with hot water.

"Scalding the milk"?

Second, but not for any particular reason.

It's a much more relevant question with tea. There are people who put the milk in with the teabag, then add water. They should be killed.

Two points to make:

1) Coffee should be drunk without milk
2) Does the order matter that much? The water will be hot in either scenario.

I am happy to discuss this for tea also.

Scalding the milk is a real thing if it turns to cloudy mush when the hot water hits.

Less hot a few seconds' cooling later in the second scenario though.

I prefer to not let the kettle boil when making coffee anyway,

Ah - kettle? If you're making instant, then the milk should definitely go in second, because otherwise you're just making it harder for the powder/granules to dissolve.

For instant coffee I mix the coffee with the milk in the cup while I wait for the water to boil.

When I make fresh coffee the milk goes in last.

Tea always after.

I don't drink coffee so can't comment on that.

Second, otherwise it's harder to judge how much you need.

I totally forgot to say 'instant' in my first post, despite thinking I should include it at the time so as to not get mixed up with real coffee.

This results in hot, milk-saturated teabags going into the bin, then proceeding to stink up the place. It's objectively worse.

I've read that the milk also inhibits the tea brewing process, on a chemical level; not sure if that's true or not. I suppose the temperature will play a part in that.

Newton's Law of Cooling means that if you compare two scenarios:

1) let a mug of boiling water stand for a minute, then add cold milk
2) add cold milk, then let the mug stand for a minute

the mug will be cooler in scenario 1). Probably not by enough to make a practical difference, though.

I love the way Russ and Mimi solve arguments.

No arguments here. At home I have been trained in tea-making, and this was just a topic to pass some time.

I always drink black coffee..

I have a related cooling question (sorry to but in Russ, but, y'know, not really); let's say I have a big old bucket of water. And I have some bags full of ice. The bags have holes in to let the water in. I have lots of bags of ice, stored in a freezer.

Now, how do I keep the water coldest for longest? Do I put all the ice I can in at once? Do I leave it in the bag (so it stays together) or open the bag and pour it out?

My big bucket is outside, and the sun is shining on it (it fucking better be, anyway).

Newton's law of cooling (again) states that heat transfer is proportional to temperate differential. In other words, a bucket at 1 degC will warm up faster than a bucket at 5 deg C. Assuming you don't mind the beer being a little warmer, then, that suggests you'll be better to add ice in batches rather than all at once.

The clumped up or not is really all about surface area and circulation. I suspect you'd to better to break the bag and pour ice in, otherwise you'll end up with warmer and cooler spots in the bucket.

Nah, that happens on twitter, not on beex

Wot?!

What about the postcard/stamps one then?

Research.

One of my favourite bits of game trivia is the fact that Metal Gear Solid 2 simulates this (or something similar, anyway)

Near the start, on the Tanker, theres a mess area with a bar, and the bar has a bucket of ice on it. If you shoot the bucket of ice, the ice comes out and lands on the bar, and then each "clump" of ice melts at a different rate depending on how much ice there is in the proximity.

There's circulation, so there shouldn't be any temperature differentials.

Would the fact that keeping it in the bag would cause some of the ice to be out of direct sunlight be a factor?

You might not be aware that physics isn't my strongest subject, but I'll give it a go anyway. Rate of cooling is going to be related to surface area - so out of bags means the water will cool quicker, but the ice would melt faster. I would suggest that if you've got a fuckton of ice, pour it in loose. If you've not got a fuckton of ice, stick it in still in the bags.

I have a better solution.

Drink the beer quicker.

I have the best solution:

Drink proper beer so it doesn't have to be ice cold.

Also if this is a bucket that you want to store beers and other beverages in add shit loads of salt, I honestly can't remember the scientific reason as to why this help, mumbles something about impurity's, but it does.

Salt lowers the temperature at which water freezes.

Surely salt water will melt the ice double-quick?

Yes, but stay the same temperature. :-S

What, "warm"?

CONFUZED!

the ice will melt, but it will be the same temperature.

is melting endothermic or exothermic?

Malc

Don't use salt, dissolve ammonium nitrate in the water. That'll actually make the water colder. ENDOTHERMIC REACTION! SCIENCE! YEAH!

Although getting hold of pure ammonium nitrate might be a touch tricky. Darn IRA, spoiling it for the rest of us.

[edit] Melting is endothermic. Latent heat!

Neither. And both.

So, milk second, yeah?

Tell her it's not that important who's right.

Now she's found Mr Right.

Has it come to the point where I can't start a thread without is being assumed Mimi and I disagree about something?

Did you ask her this?

I'd like to know what Mimi thinks before I answer.

SPEAKING OF COFFEE!

Anyone recommend me any beans or pre-ground stuff for my espresso machine?

Sorry if I touched a nerve, was only making a little jokey joke, Russter. x

So you can go and buy some different ones like when we told you what espresso machine to get? I think no, sirrah.

I dont touch the stuff however my other half swears by this place : http://hasbean.co.uk/

Yes, but I was subsequently proved right on that.

I am graciously giving you a second chance.

I hate to disappoint you old cynics in your bickering relationships, but I have no idea why Russell asked about coffee, and it certainly wasn't because of a discussion (let alone argument) we had about it, so nerrrr

The stamp thing, likewise, was actually something that an old friend of my grandfather once told me (I think he was ex postal service) and which just struck me to ask the other day, because I wasn't sure.

I think your assumptions say more about you all than us two. Sucks to be you!

Ooh, and the hot milk smelly teabags thing is not a problem with the INSINKERATOR! Myp has seen the INSINKERATOR, and he saw that it was good.

I don't have any empirical data to back this up, but I've been told by numerous coffee nuts that you shouldn't make coffee with boiling water as it scorches the coffee and can kill the flavour, or worse make it even more bitter. So, basically, let the kettle stand for a minute or so if you're making a cafetierre. A filter machine or espresso machine will/should control the water temperature anyway and if you have one, you will undoubtedly have noticed that adding cold milk makes the coffee lukewarm, so heat the milk quickly in a microwave or something.

As for tea, I've heard the reverse. Not only should you use freshly boiled water, but if you're doing it properly and using a pot, you should pre-heat the pot with hot water beforehand. Milk should go in last, for obvious heat related reasons.

YMMV

I hate coffee made with hot milk. I can't drink water that's at close to 100 degrees, so cooling it down with milk seems perfectly logical.