INDEPENDENCE FOR LONDON!

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38651

Nice tounge-in-cheek look at a federalised UK from the BBC here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13661001

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Amusing, but you really needed to issue a Hardeep Singh Kohli warning alongside the link. Sennett speaks sense though.

Warhead · Noob as of 6/8/10

Sounds like Andrew Cryan is a graduate of the Victor Lewis Smith school of presentation.

Kern · **Posted:** Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:10

Can't listen at work, but sounds interesting. What's the gist of his argument? That different parts of the country might choose different policies or priorities, leading to a non-uniform spread of services across the UK? Or that poorer regions might not be able to fund schemes without a system of financial transfers?

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Pro-argument is that London 'subsidises' the rest of the UK to the detriment of its own services, and therefore should keep more of/all of its money. And then there's the localisation policy going through Parliament, which Sennett claims (rightly, in my opinion) is the usual Tory 'Big Society' bullshit. In other words, London will have the right to self-determination, without the resources to act upon any ideas, and said 'Big Society' stuff ("go off and take care of yourselves") with be heavily regulated ("but you can only do what we say you can").

It really is like the Tories learned nothing from Labour's worst authoritarian excesses.

Kern · **Posted:** Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:31

Thanks. I haven't read the bill or the relevant parliamentary debates yet but will take a look.

It often seems that politicians talk about devolution when in opposition but seem so fearful of letting go of the levers once in power. Oh well. I'm naturally inclined to having issues decided at the lowest level possible, but as you say that's only possible if the money is there to back it up.

As for 'Big Society' - it's one of those bullshit terms like Blair's 'Respect agenda' or Brown's talk of 'change' which can mean anything you want it to. I suppose you could be charitable and argue that they want to see the rebirth of things like the Victorian Friendly Societies which served as a patchy 'welfare state' before the 20th century came along. But that would require not only a massive retreat of the state from UK life, but a similar desire for charities and others to organise themselves, and will lead to disproportionate coverage across the country. If they want that, I'd rather they said it, instead of saying anything and everything is part of the 'Big Society'.

romanista · **Posted:** Tue Jun 07, 2011 15:12

didn't the tories (thatcher) claim there was no such thing as society' how cna they now proclaim a big one?

Quote:

They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation"
Interview 23 September 1987, as quoted in by Douglas Keay, Woman's Own, 31 October 1987, pp. 8–10. A transcript of the interview at the Margaret Thatcher Foundation website differs in several particulars, but not in substance. The magazine transposed the statement in bold, often quoted out of context, from a later portion of Thatcher's remarks:
There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

It's exactly the same thing with a wankier name. Basically it comes down to "public services, you say? Fuck off. You common scum can do everything yourselves, it's not my problem."

Be Excellent To Each Other

INDEPENDENCE FOR LONDON!
(localsim bill)

Who is online

Be Excellent To Each Other

INDEPENDENCE FOR LONDON! (localsim bill)

Who is online

INDEPENDENCE FOR LONDON!
(localsim bill)