Sign the libel law petition.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

http://www.libelreform.org/sign

Simon Singh is being sued by the british chiroprators association for saying that cracking a babys back doesn't cure collic and that the treatment is thus 'bogus.'

The BCA is saying that he implied that they were frauds, turned down the right to reply in the newspaper (with an equal sized, equally promoted article) and instead sued him personally.

This is part of a larger problem with britains libel laws that makes scientists talking about where science has led them suseptiable to being sued and bankcrupted.

It's fucked. Read more at that sight and please sign.

I wouldn't shill but the aim was to have 35K signitures for the second hearing (that was today) and we are only 200 odd short.

Love, kisses etc

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

In before, 'e-petitions' don't do anything.

It's all to give copy to tomorrows newspaper articles yo.

Grim... · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 18:00

Dr Lave wrote:

In before, 'e-petitions' don't do anything.

If 400,000 people marching for the Countryside and 1,000,000 people marching against the Iraq war can't do anything, I'm pretty sure 35,000 email addresses won't either.
I still signed it, obv.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

I love the way the presumably made-up numbers of attendees at various marches always makes its way into established fact. No-one really knows how many people were there, do they? The police say one ludicrously low figure, the march organisers a very high one. There should be an independent march-counting organisation.

Anyway.

Signed the petition!

Grim... · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 18:06

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Love the way the made-up numbers of attendees at various marches always makes its way into established fact.

Well, it's based on - wait... You read that?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Grim... wrote:

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Love the way the made-up numbers of attendees at various marches always makes its way into established fact.

Well, it's based on - wait... You read that?

I read everything, eventually. I just wait for the important stuff I've missed to be pointed out. Saves time, I find.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

I love the way the presumably made-up numbers of attendees at various marches always makes its way into established fact

The Guinness Book Of World Records believes the Iraq War "million protestors" figure; I'm inclined to trust their fact checking. Even the police -- by your admission, who would estimate on the low side -- esimated "more than 750,000" at one in Hyde Park, and the BBC put it at "around a million".

Zardoz · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 18:23

Where they all tap dancing?

Dimrill · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 18:25

I'd turn up to a "tap dancing for peace" protest. I wouldn't turn up to a "chinless cretins for tearing apart foxes" protest though.

WTB · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 14497

[An argument about something]

[Signing of petition anyway because deep-down a nice chap]

WTB · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 14497

Oooh, the email to MP feature is ace - good postcode usage, there. Bit more work for Dari Taylor, anyway.

WTB · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 14497

Quote:

XXXX wrote:

Free speech!

Hehe!

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Grim... wrote:

Dr Lave wrote:

In before, 'e-petitions' don't do anything.

If 400,000 people marching for the Countryside and 1,000,000 people marching against the Iraq war can't do anything, I'm pretty sure 35,000 email addresses won't either.
I still signed it, obv.

Totally agree.

Except here a lot of mps actually want libel reform (the torys because they hate red tape, the libs because it's immoral, illiberal and unequal and Labour because erm, maybe, they don't want you looking at them implode) so it a bit of back rubbing and so on can't hurt.

Thanks to signies.

Grim... · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 18:39

Wogan'sTrouserBulge wrote:

Hehe!

/glares

kalmar · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 18:40

IDGI?

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Wogan'sTrouserBulge wrote:

Oooh, the email to MP feature is ace - good postcode usage, there. Bit more work for Dari Taylor, anyway.

Google they

TheyWorkForYou

It's ace and is what this is using. I use it to talk to my mp a lot.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 18:40

I, Doctor Gaywood, Investigate.

Grim... · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 19:48

Wogan'sTrouserBulge wrote:

Oooh, the email to MP feature is ace - good postcode usage, there. Bit more work for Dari Taylor, anyway.

Mmm. I'm pretty sure that they merrily ignore messages at seem to be the same.
I think Mr Chris knows about it.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

They very much do.

It's always best to write your own, or at the very least add your own comments at the start of the email.

I've had a lot of replys since I started using them. All saying bollock all, obviously, but better than nothing.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 22:13

Wogan'sTrouserBulge wrote:

Quote:

XXXX wrote:

Free speech!

Hehe!

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

I love the way the presumably made-up numbers of attendees at various marches always makes its way into established fact

The Guinness Book Of World Records believes the Iraq War "million protestors" figure; I'm inclined to trust their fact checking. Even the police -- by your admission, who would estimate on the low side -- esimated "more than 750,000" at one in Hyde Park, and the BBC put it at "around a million".

I'm sure the Met said at the time of the march that it was 250,000 or something, and everyone got uppity at their underestimates. The march organisers were claiming in excess of a million at the time (I swear I heard two million at one point). My point is that the numbers vary fairly wildly, and I can't see any way that even the MIGHTY GUINNESS BOOK OF RECORDS could actually determine the number with any degree of accuracy, especially given that (I assume) they're relying on other people's estimates.

Next time they need a turnstile and a bouncer with one of those clicky things.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38651

So assuming they were all UK citizens, 1 out of every 60 people was there.

Pft. I, say

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

DavPaz wrote:

So assuming they were all UK citizens, 1 out of every 60 people was there.

Pft. I, say

Assuming most of them were over 18, that's 1 out of 40 adults, or something like that.

I can well believe it, given the strength of feeling over it (I would have gone if I'd been arsed), but I can't see any way we can know that it's true.

DBSnappa · **Posted:** Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:39

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

I love the way the presumably made-up numbers of attendees at various marches always makes its way into established fact

The Guinness Book Of World Records believes the Iraq War "million protestors" figure; I'm inclined to trust their fact checking. Even the police -- by your admission, who would estimate on the low side -- esimated "more than 750,000" at one in Hyde Park, and the BBC put it at "around a million".

I was there on that day. There were a LOT of people.
I wasn't at the actual demonstration, a friend got married that day and the trip to the reception from the church was affected by the river of protestors

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38651

Pft. I say.

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:39

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

I'm sure the Met said at the time of the march that it was 250,000 or something, and everyone got uppity at their underestimates. The march organisers were claiming in excess of a million at the time (I swear I heard two million at one point). My point is that the numbers vary fairly wildly, and I can't see any way that even the MIGHTY GUINNESS BOOK OF RECORDS could actually determine the number with any degree of accuracy, especially given that (I assume) they're relying on other people's estimates.

If there's an aerial photo at the peak of the event (and I'm sure there were many), they could use the same techniques used for counting flocks of birds or whatever. Not highly accurate but good enough.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

kalmar wrote:

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

I'm sure the Met said at the time of the march that it was 250,000 or something, and everyone got uppity at their underestimates. The march organisers were claiming in excess of a million at the time (I swear I heard two million at one point). My point is that the numbers vary fairly wildly, and I can't see any way that even the MIGHTY GUINNESS BOOK OF RECORDS could actually determine the number with any degree of accuracy, especially given that (I assume) they're relying on other people's estimates.

If there's an aerial photo at the peak of the event (and I'm sure there were many), they could use the same techniques used for counting flocks of birds or whatever. Not highly accurate but good enough.

I'd prefer the turnstile, thankyou. The photo could have been photoshopped, like those jubilant crowds in Iraq.

Kern · **Posted:** Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:43

I always go by:

Organisers' estimate / Police estimate = My Guess

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38651

2000000/750000 = Under 3 people.

Quiet day, all told.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

I was also there that day. Trying to go in the opposite direction to everyone else to get to the British Museum.

Kern · **Posted:** Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:46

Hmmm... might need refining...

Wullie · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 6183

kalmar wrote:

If there's an aerial photo at the peak of the event (and I'm sure there were many), they could use the same techniques used for counting flocks of birds or whatever. Not highly accurate but good enough.

That's how I'd assumed it was done.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:55

At the risk of dragging this back to the topic, I received a letter this week from my MP, responding to the email I sent her. That's good of her!

I'll give details on what she said when I get home. Need to do lots of work today, and bloody trains made me 90 minutes late already...

pupil · **Posted:** Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:35

I got this reply from my MP after I signed the libel reform petition and did the "send email to your MP" thingy afterwards:

Quote:

Thank you for your letter regarding the state of libel law.

It is indeed absurd that the right to free speech in this country is subject to libel tourists and the might of corporations with their ability to obtain injunctions to silence those who speak out. It is absolutely bizarre that litigants are coming to England from all over the world to make use of our restrictive libel laws.

Professor Richard Dawkins addressed the Liberal Democrat Conference on reform of libel law back in September, tabling an amendment to the Civil Liberties motion. The law needs to be rebalanced to be fairer towards free expression, responsible journalism and the public interest.

My colleague Dr Evan Harris MP has been a keen champion of the campaign for libel reform and I will be sure to support efforts in the future to amend the draconian law so that the burden of proof in libel cases rests on the claimant and not the defendant. I will support calls by English PEN, Index on Censorship and Sense About Science for a Libel Reform Bill.

I have signed EDM 423 to show my support.

Thank you for taking the time to get in touch.

Kind regards,

John Leech

Bigup John Leech (Lib Dem MP for Withington, Manchester btw)

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