Be Excellent To Each Other

Astoundingly awful in every way.

They're not that much worse than some of the things on Britain's Got Talent.

Wow. Imagine the complaints if that was broadcast on the BBC

I'm not sure it's the talent that's being criticised here!

Malc

Can't even hold a tune. If you want horrible racist entertainment where the performers can actually sing, you need this lot.

Compare the skin tone of the Aussie lot to Mr Walliams, the aussie lot are not much better than those Spaniards pretending to be "Hamilton's familly"

Malc

Someone needs to write down where the 'darkness of brown makeup' cut-off line is between 'racist' and 'funny'*.


*No, I don't think so either

There's a local discount store near me that sells Gollywog dolls, ornaments and other tat. I thought they were all banned?

What if they could actually sing rather than just take the piss? Would that outweigh the racist undertone of being blacked up?

Also, the Japanese Bruce Willis from the same show is awesome.

@Z, Nah you can sell Gollies, just not Gollywogs

That is awesome!

Jesus. Is that how they get round it?

They were the Robertsons Jam/Marmalade mascot weren't they? Also remember them on the local newspaper stands saying "Golly! It's the Gazette!", remember that markg?

Hang on a second.

What the fuck

Micheal Jackson was black


My worldview is shattered

He's got his own youtube "channel", but this one is my favourite

Vaguely now you mention it. Saw the "Gollies" in GeeTees as well

The concept of "black face" is an interesting one. Where do you draw the line? What is offensive?

I think it depends on the context and how well something is done. It's not clear cut. The Aussies sticking boot polish on their faces and dancing around like that is at best thoughtless at worst downright offensive. But it's Australia which is actually pretty backwards when it comes to such things. Remember the discussions we had about the "chk chk boom" woman a few months ago?

Recently I've been watching episodes of It Ain't Half Hot Mum on DVD. For those who don't know, it was by Jimmy Croft and David Perry and ran for several series from the early 70's to the early 80's. It's pretty much Dads Army set in the jungle. In fact while Dads Army was loosely based on Jimmy Perry's experiences during the war, It Ain't Half Hot Mum was based on the experience of David Croft.

Although it was an equal hit to Dads Army in its day, it's hardly ever been repeated on the BBC. Why? Well the main Indian character was a white man who was blacked up. Looking at that fact on the surface, it looks cut and dried. Racist sitcom, not to be aired.

Or is it? Back in the early 70's when casting the series, Croft and Perry struggled to get Indian actors. The main Indian role was based on an old man David Croft knew in India. It was a lynchpin role and they were really struggling (as it was they were already having to cast people from other Asian countries in the other Indian roles).

Someone at the BBC mentioned the name Michael Bates to them. Bates was a well known character actor of the era who was at that time playing the "third man" in Last of the Summer Wine. Crucially Bates had been born in India and had only come to the UK after partition. Fluent in Hindi and also able to speak Urdu, during the war he had fought in an Indian only regiment.

Bates agreed to take on the role, basing his performance around someone he knew while he was growing up. He also insisted on adding his own Indian jewelry to his costume for authenticy. He was also able to throw authentic lines of Hindi into the scripts so Indian characters could be seen talking to each other in an authentic way. I saw an interview with that guy from Goodness Gracious Me a few years ago when he commented that the first time he ever saw Indians talking realistically to each other was in It Ain't Half Hot Mum and it was only years later he realised it wasn't a real Indian!

Now I'm not saying in 2009 that you could do that, but what I am saying is that in 2009 we still get endless repeats of bloody Dads Army when there is an arguably better sitcom sitting in the archive.

I think it's down to the intent, and how much effort is put in, once again his skin tone looks natural, and he's trying to get Armstrong's mannerisms and stuff, whereas the Aussies seem to have taken "Blacking up" literally. and are relying on the mere concept being funny (well perhaps their younger selves in 1989, but to come in 2009 and do it again, when you're in your late 30s/early 40s! I suspect they wanted to shock as well.)

Malc

That's a very long and convoluted way of saying "I hate Dad's Army"

I personally think there's nothing racist about wearing makeup, it's (a) your reasons for doing so, and (b) what you do when you've got it on.
I didn't think those Aussie (oh noes!) chaps were being racist, they were just crap.
I didn't watch more than two minutes though, so maybe I missed something.

Malc

Back when I lived in Lancs, we had the coconutters which were basically blacked up morris dancers..

http://www.farcourt.co.uk/ge/Coconutters.html

Dads Army is a great sitcom but it has been repeated to death. It's been elevated to greatness which is fair enough except the other Croft and Perry stuff gets ignored. You Rang M'Lord is also criminally ignored despite having some of their strongest scripts and very high production values. A 50 minute long studio comedy series was a bloody brave thing to do and they pulled it off. I don't see anyone today trying!

Theme tune sung by Bob Monkhouse as well. CHINNYTRUFAX!

I knew someone who did that kind of thing, and it's not a racial thing. I had it explained to me but I've totally forgotten!

The first Coconutters troup was formed in 1857 and the Britannia Coconutters are unique as the only surviving troupe practising this kind of dance in this country and maybe in the world, out of four or five troupes that once prevailed in the Rossendale area.

The dances (5 garland dances and 2 nut dances) are supposed to be pirate dances brought to Cornwall by Moorish pirates who settled there and became employed in the mining industry. As mines and quarries opened in Lancashire in the 18th and 19th centuries some of these men moved north, bringing with them their expertise in mining, and of course the dances.
The Garland dances (each dancer carries an arched garland decorated with red, white and blue flowers) are Spring ritual dances of Pagan or Mediaeval origin, celebrating the coming of Spring and renewal of vegetation. The dancers black their faces to prevent them being recognised by the evil spirits afterwards; this may also reflect the mining connections.

The Coconut dances are unique. The dancers tap out rhythms on wooden discs or 'nuts' fastened to their palms, knees and waist (said to represent the protective cover worn on the hands and knees when crawling along narrow passages in the mines). The origin of the dances has not been traced, but it is known they were performed in feudal times. Their usual accompaniment is the English concertina.

Used to love Ain't Half Hot Mum, especially as they used to re run them on UK Gold back in the nineties.
I think why you probably couldn't show them now is probably due to homophobia as well. Windsor Davies used to call the concert troupe guys, in every show a bunch of Poofs, probably not enough to cause outrage then, but now certainly unwise. Which is a fucking shame.



When we went on a holiday to Derbyshire last year they had gollies everywhere. Seems the further away from the big cities you go the more you see them.

And finally, something from the always excellent, Confederate states of America.

Ironically the reason that catchphrase is used is because that's how one Sergeant Major used to refer to the real concert party that David Croft was in. I just wish people were allowed to watch things and allow for the context of the era it was made. There was properly offensive stuff on the TV in the 70's, but It Ain't Half Hot Mum isn't one of them.

Episodes of Only Fools And Horses sometimes make reference to "the paki's that own the corner shop". No-one laughs or anything, that's just how people talked then.

Aren't Jonathan Ross's house band called Four Poofs and a Piano?

Seems not. They do them here too. Garden center has ones with straw hair you can stick on your lawn.

Yup.

Jonathan Ross was in the last ever episode of IAHHM as an extra. CHINNYTRUFAX!

Presumably they are calling themselves that, and they are in fact gay! Whereas someone in a position of authority calling his underlings poofs because they don't do a "manly" job is actually quite insulting.

Malc