Be Excellent To Each Other

Been rummaging through some recent stuff by old bands that are still going and hitting the wall of inevitable disappointment in many cases. Any old bands still cranking out greatness for you? For me:

Depeche Mode: Sounds of the Universe is on iTunes right now and is horribly horribly average in almost every way. Few hooks, little interest, everything at one level. Phoned-in, and lacking the punch the band had when Wilder was around. Last good album: Songs of Faith and Devotion.

REM: Bought both their most recent albums on the very cheap in HMV. Three quid per album was, frankly, overpriced. Little imagination and lots of dross. Accelerate has a few good tracks, but I think Up was the last album I really liked.

Cure: Seem to have been treading water since the mid 1990s, with Robert Smith penning the same album again and again. Sad when you look at how exciting the band was until the late 1980s. Last decent album: Disintegration.

Jury out:

Pet Shop Boys: Most people hate these guys anyway, but the first few albums are great cynical pop. Turned to shit over time, but Love Etc piqued by interest, and the first few tracks on Yes seem surprisingly good, despite the dreadful mix.

Nick Cave: I wasn't entirely convinced by Nocturama, but it's got a few really good tracks. Dig, Lazarus, Dig!!! just sounded like a noisy mess to me, though (as did the gig I went to for that album). I'm hoping it's a blip.

Those still doing good stuff:

Susumu Yokota: Can do no wrong. Love Or Die = excellent.

NIN: I'm not a huge fan of NIN, truth be told, and I found the first few tracks of freebie The Slip fucking dreadful, but track four on is really solid, engaging music.

Wire: Object 47 has great songs, even if I don't care for the production. Not as in-your-face as Send, but it'll do.

Abbatoir Blues/Lyre of Orpheus is much better than both. It's in fact one of my favorite albums of him. Dig! isn't quite as good but its still solid.

Dig is great, so was the grinderman stuff.

My girlfriend bought the new DM album this morning and I'm waiting for a first listen. I have to agree with you on the cut-off point Craig. Alan Wilder was Depeche Mode, and it's all rather limp afterwards.

From 1983 to 1993, they had a strange band dynamic, but it somehow worked: Gore wrote demos, Wilder then turned them into songs, Gahan warbled over them and Fletcher, er, did the accounts (or something). With Wilder gone, they've never filled the hole. The claim was always that producers would do this, but Wilder effectively co-produced (and co-engineered) the band's best albums. Since then, there's been no-one to really reshape Gore's stuff. Now, there's even the schism in the band where Gahan's 'writing team' wants to muscle in. God forbid Gahan and Gore actually, you know, write something together or something.

It's a shame, really, because even in the very worst Depeche Mode albums there's something great (Exciter is utter shit, but Dream On is great), but SotU lacks even that, although at least the general quality isn't nearly as bad as on Exciter. (Also, nice work, Depeche Mode, for releasing a box-set for 60 fucking quid. A nice thank-you for the fans, there, then. What would have been a thank-you is just uploading the demos CD to your fucking website, you greedy sods.)

"Depeche Mode: Sounds of the Universe is on iTunes right now and is horribly horribly average in almost every way. Few hooks, little interest, everything at one level. Phoned-in, and lacking the punch the band had when Wilder was around. Last good album: Songs of Faith and Devotion."

DM have been my favourite band for over 20 years, and I have to agree about the new album.
It's incredibly average. 3 or 4 very good tracks (none of them classics though), and the rest of the album is average or bland.

The main problem for me is that none of the tracks really build or "take off".
They start, they sound decent enough, and you often expect them to kick up a gear as they progress.
They never do though....
Far too many tracks here that sound almost exactly the same in the last minute as they do in the first minute (ie. there has been no build-up or progression through-out the track, and that leaves you feeling rather bored by the end of it due to the monotony).

Alan Wilder is certainly missed, but I still think that both Playing The Angel & Ultra are very strong "post-Alan" albums (not up there with the classic one-two of Violator & Songs Of Faith & Devotion though).

This album though, does indeed sound "phoned-in" and lacks any real depth.

Goes into my "Worst 3 Depeche Mode album" list along with Exciter & A Broken Frame.

Peaked with Very in the early/mid nineties. That's one of the greatest albums of all time. Had quite a few decent songs since then, but no completely satisfying albums.

Intrigued by new one because of the use of Girls Aloud producers - and anyone who doesn't like Girls Aloud doesn't like pop music.



Nah, Dig's a fantastic album. I didn't think much of Nocturama either, apart from Babe I'm On Fire, which is fifteen minutes of awesome.

Other stuff? I'm very much enjoying Miranda Lambert and the second CSS album isn't nearly as bad as people say.

Behaviour for me - the perfect album.

I'm having a think about this now... I don't really listen to any of my old favourite bands anymore, with a few noteable exceptions. Going back about fifteen years to my mid teens, I was into (in no specific order at all)

Faith No More, Alice in Chains, etc - all that lot from then - any decent rock bands that are no more, ignoring dodgy reunions.

Black Crowes - as above, although I think they are only intermittently together these days. Anyway The Southern Harmony and Musical Companion never got any close competition and I lost interest.

Metallica - downhill all the way, Death Magnetic was the album they should have released after the Black Album, if only to reassert their manly credentials, and it is a thorough return to form, fair play.

Guns N' Roses - Contentious, but fuck off - they avoided the Metallica/Chilli Peppers/Etc trap every other main act of the era fell into, by not releasing anything in order to avoid releasing any shit. Chinese Democracy, on a good stereo and with a bit of patience, is as close to a masterpiece as one could reasonably expect given the circumstances. In the reckoning, I'm happier waiting fifteen years for this than I was listening to the last decade and a half of shite most of their peers have trotted out.

Tool - Perfect all the way

New Model Army - stayed brilliant until the last album, High. The departure of lead guitar Dave Blomberg changed their sound slightly, but it's a game changer for me at the moment and while they are doing well presently, the current sound just isn't for me in anything like the way the rest is.

Pearl Jam- Yawn.

British Indie Bands - all gone, all of them. WTF happened?

I'm going to digress now and then shut up or I could rattle bands off all night. It has just occurred to me that stuff I've liked since tends to decay in appeal faster than when I was a youth. The Streets I fucking adored with their classic first record, probably one of the top 50 records ever to come from the UK, but the moment has passed now even if he's still a talent in his field. Ditto everything from Iceland, everything on Warp and all the othr phases a tasteful person can go through. As we age time appears to go faster, perhaps tastes do too, or we make them. And maybe that affects our ears when we listen to the new Depeche Mode album. Is it 'on' Pirate Bay yet?

@BertyBasset: I feel the same. Most of the tracks on SotU don't go anywhere, but also the entire album's at roughly the same level. Interestingly, this is clearly a Gore thing. Check out, if you can, the demos CD that comes with the stupidly expensive box-set—all the tracks sound very similar in the way they're performed, and yet Depeche Mode stuff pre-1995 had a lot of variety, despite still being coherent in terms of each album. (For me, Ultra lacked that—it was several DMs mashed together, and PTA just annoyed me, although it has a few good tracks.)

@The Rev Owen: I have to say, while Yes isn't "completely satisfying", it's actually surprisingly good. All tracks rated above 2/5 in iTunes right now. Best since the debut for me. As for using the Girls Aloud producers, didn't Tennant say PSB were fed up with penning gloomy stuff and wanted to do a great pop record, like old times? They've certainly succeeded there. Yes won't sit on my favourite CDs shelf, but for something I thought would be just OK, I've been very pleasantly surprised.


Ah, well we'll have to agree to disagree there. I thought it was lazy, boring shite. It's like someone told the band to put all the good stuff in a pile and all the bad, and then they chose the wrong pile. All the quirky, interesting bits: gone. All the dull indie shit: HERE! Bah.


Most of them only had one idea, and half of those ideas were Wire's or Talking Heads' in the first place.


Worm is Green: still on top form (although I'm a little concerned about what I've heard from the first album).
Múm: ceased to be good a couple of albums back.
Bjork: I like the desire to experiment, but can't stand the music anymore.
Sigur Rós: so close with the new one, but they utterly bottled it half-way through. Something of a return to form, though.
Mugison: still on fine form.


I suspect so. And you're probably partly right with the way tastes work. Also, bands probably have to work harder over the years to retain interest. However, when I hear something new and brilliant by an old band, I know it. Dream On was an absolute corker when I first heard it, which made the rest of Exciter (an absolutely dire record) a real shock.

Hoo boy, will I be posting in this thread later today. For now, sleep.

I thought the last múm album was just what they needed after the 2 average ones before it. They needed the change in style and I like how it came off.

I have to agree with Craig re: The Cure.

I'd say that the Wish album was good also but after that they've been average to poor. Such a shame, The Cure were my favourite band.

Re: New Model Army. I stopped listening to them when Stuart Morrow, my bass hero, left the band. Those first two albums were great though.

Also, Killing Joke. They were amazing, then rubbish (mid-late 80s), then amazing but their last two albums are truly awful.

I'd disagree a little bit about The Cure. I think Bloodflowers was a good album and there was a fair bit of variety on Wild Mood Swings. That one with the childlike drawing on the front was a bit rubbish though.

DM's new album is reasonably interesting in the sounds used compared to other recent stuff. The lyrics and vocals are horrible though.

I haven't liked NIN since Downward Spiral really. Or before really, come to think of it.

I'm not sure about PSB but I agree that Love Etc sounded kind of interesting.

Siouxsie, however, is completely and utterly amazing. Mantaray wasn't her best work but it shows a great deal of variety and versatility.

Does PJ Harvey count?

The Cure disappoint me like no other band these days.

Nick Cave D,L D! is an absolutely corking album, he has much more energy/less smack in his bloodstream these days.

NIN latest album is a cracker too (Discipline & Echoplex being real standouts for me).

The Prodigy need to stop.

The Vengaboys latest album was a letdown. Perhaps venturing into African Throat singing mixed with Alaskan Hardcore Grind was too bold a move?

I've enjoyed all Ian Browns stuff since the Stone Roses, pisses all over John Squires Seahorses.

I've been told Iron Maiden are still very good live. There's a movie (at the cinema WTF) about them coming soon.

[edit]Ooh, it's out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHWv6wp06Qo

I prefer the Beatles now they're Drum & Bass.

WMS and Bloodflowers really didn't do it for me. One good song per album. Cure 2004 was pretty awful throughout. I don't like the sound they use these days. it's too big, too textured. They used to have that kind of depth before but it was clearer and they had more hooks. Not just poppy ones.

Not heard much Siouxsie since the early 90s. I went off the Banshees when they got that rubbish guitarist. John Klein or something.

Has a band ever lost it as spectacularly as The Cult?

@Runcle: I've not heard all of the new múm. Will investigate.

@Nirejhenge: I think my point about the Cure isn't that they're rubbish these days, but that they stopped around 1992 and then released the same record every few years. Compare the last three albums to the sheer development and level of experimentation during the early 80s, or even the progression from Head on the Door to Disintegration. It's like Robert Smith's only got two songs in him (misery gothy and happy happy) and just performs variations.

And, yeah, I agree about DM's new album having lots of great sounds. A real pity they weren't put to better use. Definitely time for them to find a producer that can do this, though. It's pretty clear Hillier can't do enough to shape the songs into something more interesting. And while the likes of Wire can get away with 'wind it up and let it go... and then stop', Depeche Mode really can't.


In my mind, yup. And in my mind, she'd be happily within the 'still got it' camp, despite a few wobbles.

@Zardoz: on NIN, Discipline through to The Four of Us... all rated 4 here. Those first three songs are really bad, though. And, yeah, the Prodigy really do need to stop. New album phoned in from 1993 and watered down some, and I even decided against buying it for three quid on iTunes. Then again, I think they ran out of ideas on Fat of the Land and Jilted was the last decent album they did.

Substitute in RHCP and 1999 and you have my views.

I thought Bloodflowers was good. Not so keen on the 2004 album, though.

Get off, Vhernen are awesome and keep getting better.

Röyksopp continue to be good. Not icelandic though.

As proved by their last album, The Prodigy are still good.

I went to see Earth last night. They were amazing, and their last two albums are ridiculously good. They've been going for 20 years, so fair play. They've also managed not to be produced by Timbaland, which is a bonus.

Well, there was a big ole lull in the middle due to heroin addiction, but yeah 20 years since they formed. /nitpicking pedantic cunt.

Don't forget it was Dylan's gun that Cobain topped himself with, so he deserves ultra success for that blessing.

Can't beat a bit of Pink Floyd (God damn scissor sisters)- the live dvd is perfect for having on during a wee game of poker.

Also love Nick Drake, a friend introduced me to his music when I was about 18 and we then went to see a documentary about him at Glasgow Film Theatre which was brilliant (although sad, obv.)

John Martyns Solid Air album is one I could listen to again and again.

Not really an old band but Biffy Clyro- I first saw them when I was 18 and they are now on their fourth(?) album but still brilliant.

Can't think of any who have went downhill that I listen to.

As for The Prodigy, I saw them at T in the Park a few years ago and they were fantastic, but when i saw them again last year I didn't enjoy it and left half way through despite their set being one of the ones I had looked forward to most. The Chemical Brothers however-they were something special.

It's like something they phoned in from the Jilted era. In fact, it sounds like cast offs from that era. It's not absolute shit, but it's pretty clear not only that they ran out of ideas for the album after the first four or so tracks, but that the band itself ran out of new ideas entirely some time during the 1990s.

I give him bonus points for not dying.

Not a particularly old band, nor one that I was really a fan of, but I quite liked Take That's last album, not enough for me to buy it but I did listen to it and not turn it off, which for me is an improvement over their old stuff.

I'm sure a lot of people still think the're great.

I haven't heard the new album, but 'Shine' and 'Rule the World' were fucking great.

I can contribute plenty of the (very) old rock bands to this:

King Crimson - Never lost it, always reinventing the wheel and yet sounding contemporary, although their last album was in 2003, it's probably their best.

Deep Purple - An interesting one this, because they'd actually lost it big time with the 'reunion' era of the classic mark 2 line up in the 80s. They'd been quite rightly written off and yet when Ritchie Blackmore left in 1993 they've got better ever since. Some great albums, and fantastic live. Blackmore was also inspireed by escaping from Purple, and now plays rather excellent renaissance pop. They are actually underappreciated are Deep Purple, better than you think, you.

Iron Maiden - As someone has already said Maiden are still excellent. Since Bruce Dickinson returned in 1999 they've got better and better. Great albums, great live performances. Also check out Bruce's solo album from 1998 - Chemical Wedding.

Dream Theater - Very dense music (and too uncool for some, of course) but their last five albums have been awesome. the only problem being that vocalist James LaBrie's voice is pretty poor compared to how it was in the 90s.

Bands that are broken:

Yes - Still touring churning out the same old old. You can really tell that Steve Howe smokes a bowl of weed every day. Their last album (from 2001) was actually finally a return to form but that's it. Now it's just nostalgia tours.

Bowie - Went back to playing tedious old man music after the awesome Outside (and Earthling) in the 90s. He must be so very old now.

Metallica - I personally think that people are getting carried away with how good Death Magnetic is. it's just not as bad as St Anger.

Led Zep - Yeah, I know what with one of them being dead and everything it's kind of inevitable, but Jimmy Page has sounded arthritic since 1979 (despite a brief improvement in the 90s to be fair).

Thin Lizzy - Yes, that's right. They are still touring. What?

Sabbath - Another geriatric nostalgia touring band, whether it be with Dio or Ozzy. Sadly, their last album was their worst.

I never really understood why those album were roundly panned at the time. They were both great, inventive albums, with some fantastic songs. Now, he's doing drab versions of his music from the 1970s/early 1980s half the time. *sigh*

I recall sitting across a studio desk from 'Maker' enfent terrible Neil Kulkarni as he ripped into Little Wonder when it was released, and the album as a whole. The guy has some impeccable taste, but his "Bowie doesn't understand drum n' bass" message was lost on me.

It wasn't drum n' bass, it was a rock record like everything else Bowie has done, which featured the amen break along with some other samples.

I love 'Little Wonder'. Not only is it not a bad little song (double negative!), but it pisses Bowie fans off to the highest degree when I say it's my fave song of his.


You little wan-dah!

Craig is challenging for the Mr Chris award today.

Green Day.

I loved Dookie (got it) and I loved American Idiot (got it). Infact I have all of their albums (notable mentions are Nimrod, Warning and international superhits.)

They have a new one coming soon apparently (May IIRC) So I'll be sure to buy that

Someone said they had lost their angst and grittiness but I think that's just him (mate of mine) getting old.

American Idiot was their grittiest album to date (very political too !).

Holiday was simply an anthem and Boulevard of broken dreams is just sublime.

Neither of them are still good though, are they?

Did you happen to catch the John Martyn At The BBC compilation-o-doc of all his TV performances a few weeks ago? Absolutely awesome stuff, but showing the clips in chonological order meant you pretty much got to watch him fall apart over the course of the last 10-15 years of his life which was strangely eerie and slightly depressing.

I wasn't keen on Systematic Chaos or Train of Thought, though they weren't too bad. I really love Octavarium and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence (disc one), though.

I agree about LaBrie's voice, and I wish he'd stop reaching for those high wails; I thought Octavarium's lower, more natural tones really suited his voice. I wish he'd stick to that, because it really fits the music they put out these days. The old stuff, of course, fits the voice he could put out, but not any more.

Their new one is out soon, isn't it?

Yup, June the 23rd. Black Clouds and Silver Linings. The cover looks like one of their 90s albums.

With regard to Siouxsie it's more a matter of the live performance rather than the recorded music. However she's always changed things about each record anyway. John Klein joined in 1988 and helped produce the magnificent and glorious Peepshow so he can't be all bad. Superstition and The Rapture are kind of low points in the Banshees albums but at least they don't sound like each other or anything else they did. The delightful Kiss Them For Me came from Superstition after all. The Rapture seems largely uninspired but Stargazer and Fall From Grace are tracks of particular note. Probably Not Forgotten and Love Out Me are worth a mention from The Rapture. The B-Sides to the rapture though are amazing. Black Sun, Hang Me High and B-Side Ourselves happily take their place among the best tracks they've done.

Of course the Banshees knew they didn't have much left in them so they then split to leave the Creatures going for it. The Eraser Cut EP which followed was astonishingly brilliant but Anima Animus proved a muddy mess. Again everything was improved a million times for live performance. The creatures final album Hai was an interesting experiment but due to the drums being cut out of a really long improv session, songs sometimes didn't seem fully formed. Siouxsie and Budgie divorced and Siouxie produced her solo 'break up album' Mantaray which is vibrant and varied. Into A Swan is strident, exciting and grand. Here Comes That Day a sneering big band-vamp-a-thon and so on through many different glorious styles. About To Happen lacks something on the album but that's about it.

But once again, if you like what Siouxsie does, it's pretty much all about the live act. Real awesome power. Siouxsie still has the ability to give me chills.

Have you heard Propagandhi? I reckon you might like them. Grittier and more political than Green Day, but they bring the rock and the tunes.

I'll be sure to check it out

NOOOOOOO!!!!!

I saw Siouxsie's Mantaray gig yesterday on Sky Arts.

a - her voice has gone to shit

b - she looks like Elvis (gold catsuit didn't help)

c - her dancing made her look like an embarrassing auntie.


ARGH!

I've grown up with her my whole life and now she's an embarrassing auntie Elvis.

*sob*

Radiohead have been consistently excellent and varied basically since The Bends came out.

I do think NIN are still fantastic too.

Yo La Tengo's new album is excellent.

The Manics are definitely still with it.

Flaming Lips have gotten better with age.

I liked Chinese Democracy if that counts.

Can't wait to see if blur are capable of making a good contemporary album.

i have started listening to The Levellers again it takes me back to my student days. Bought the live album i remember being at that concert

Green Blade Rising is a cracking good album from the Levs, easily the best after the first three.

i have it on my mp3 player and in the car.