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 Post subject: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:45 
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A Texas judge ruled Tuesday that Microsoft cannot sell one of its flagship products, Word, in the United States because of patent infringement.

You read that right: Microsoft cannot sell Word, the judge ruled.

Judge Leonard Davis, of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, ordered a permanent injunction that "prohibits Microsoft from selling or importing to the United States any Microsoft Word products that have the capability of opening .XML, .DOCX or DOCM files (XML files) containing custom XML," according to an announcement by the plaintiff, Toronto-based i4i Inc.

XML essentially is a programming language that allows users to customize the underlying format of their word-processing documents, for example, and makes them readable across different word-processing programs. The ability to read and write XML documents is an integral feature of Microsoft Word.

In its complaint (PDF), i4i alleges Microsoft willingly violated its 1998 patent (No. 5,787,449) on a method for reading XML. The company, whose Web site advertises that users can "Create and edit XML content in Microsoft Word," helps clients work with XML.

i4i filed the lawsuit in March 2007, seeking an injunction and damages. The Eastern District of Texas is known for being a haven for patent litigation.

The injunction (PDF), which becomes effective in 60 days, prohibits Microsoft from selling future Word products that allegedly use the patented technology. It also enjoins Microsoft from testing, demonstrating, marketing or offering support for those future products.

Davis also ordered Microsoft to pay i4i more than $290 million in damages.

"We are disappointed by the court's ruling," Microsoft spokesman Kevin Kutz said in a statement. "We believe the evidence clearly demonstrated that we do not infringe and that the i4i patent is invalid. We will appeal the verdict."

Indeed, Microsoft will likely do everything in its power to overturn Tuesday's ruling. And indeed, Microsoft will likely prevail.


Ouch.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:46 
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baron of techno

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This is, surely, bullshit. As with most US legal outcomes. Amusing though!


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:48 
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Links!

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:49 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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how odd.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:51 
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http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/176223.asp
http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/176223.asp
http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/176223.asp
http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/176223.asp


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:51 
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Skillmeister

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Grim... wrote:
Links!


Ah yes, Thought I'd included them in the OP.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/176223.asp

Actual injunction: http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/lib ... nction.pdf
i4i's complaint: http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/lib ... plaint.pdf
Judgement: http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/lib ... dgment.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:52 
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It'll either be overturned on appeal or Microsoft will pay up.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:53 
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Is there an option for them to licence it, then?

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:56 
SupaMod
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"It", in this case, being "Method and System for Manipulating the Architecture and the Content of a Document Separately from Each Other".

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:56 
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Of course it'll be overturned, pure software patents aren't valid any more. Christ knows why MS couldn't successfully use that good court thingy to defeat the case this time around.
Quote:
XML essentially is a programming language that allows users to customize the underlying format of their word-processing documents, for example, and makes them readable across different word-processing programs.
I wish people wouldn't bother if they can't write it coherently.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:56 
SupaMod
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XML is a programming language? Does the 'M' not give people a clue?

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 13:57 
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Grim... wrote:
Is there an option for them to licence it, then?
What's the patent holder going to do, turn down pots of cash?

Quote:
Of course it'll be overturned, pure software patents aren't valid any more.
Citation needed. It is my understanding that US software patents are confusing.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:07 
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Citation casting: R-E--B-I-L-S-K-I.

XML does not require a specific machine to operate on, and so on.

In fact, in being specifically designed to be human-readable, XML doesn't even require anything more than a human brain to process. It should be pretty fucking fundamentally unpatentable in any sane system. Even the broken US one shouldn't this be capable of this level of retardation.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:07 
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MR EXCELLENT FACE

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Software patents sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:15 
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BikNorton wrote:
Of course it'll be overturned, pure software patents aren't valid any more. Christ knows why MS couldn't successfully use that good court thingy to defeat the case this time around.


Something to do with it being an East Texas court, which is notorious for this kind of nonsense.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:27 
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It's a bit worrying* for us, given nearly everything we do is based around the manipulation of XML, including generating meta-XML to pass around multiple documents in one batch, and so on.

* Only insofar as a dribbling idiot in a wig in Texas has upheld it. And a dribbling idiot with a badge issued the thing in the first place. Obviously if Word is hit by this, nearly anything that manipulates XML (especially XSLT!) is too, and we'll be waaaaaay down the food chain.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:29 
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What happened to those twats who tried to patent the JPEG? I take it they didn't succeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:29 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It'll either be overturned on appeal or Microsoft will pay up.

What other options are there? Isn't this like saying "the sun will either rise tomorrow, or it won't"?

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:30 
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Well compuserve quite happily patented the gif for many years, didn't they? Despite how unenforced and universally ignored it was.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:30 
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What-ho, chaps!

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Quote:
"It", in this case, being "Method and System for Manipulating the Architecture and the Content of a Document Separately from Each Other".

Oh dear.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:31 
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PNG only exists because of Unisys and their fucking GIF patent (which was the encoding; decoders were free). They only started really kicking up a fuss towards the end of the 20 year period; it expired going on a decade ago now, or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:31 
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TheAlbin0Kid wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It'll either be overturned on appeal or Microsoft will pay up.
What other options are there? Isn't this like saying "the sun will either rise tomorrow, or it won't"?
The option the thread topic suggests, that Microsoft stop selling Word.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:31 
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Craster wrote:
Well compuserve quite happily patented the gif for many years, didn't they? Despite how unenforced and universally ignored it was.


Yeah they've always claimed that, or at least as far as I can remember. The JPEG application was seeking retrospective damages and licenses, if I recall correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:32 
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PNG only exists because of Unisys and their fucking GIF patent
Which is good, of course, because PNG is better.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:41 
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Unless you wanted an animated image, and GIF (when optimised properly) would often still be better for small, low-colour images. Both of which being what the internet was full of back then. But in general, very much yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:42 
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Yeah, I guess. Animated PNGs exist, and I have to say that anyone using animated GIFs is doing something wrong, somehow.
Also I could never get the hang of the name, ie. pronouncing it 'jif'.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:44 
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PNG didn't do animation until after GIF expired - as I remember it, so the usual pitcher of salt.

Edit: Chrome 3 says "Your browser does not support animated PNGs", so apparently it's still not quite there. 8)
Edit: Also IE8 on Win7.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 14:54 
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Grim... wrote:
and I have to say that anyone using animated GIFs is doing something wrong, somehow.


Cunt.
Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 15:29 
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I don't get it, are they saying that the usage of XML to modify a word document is infringement. Or that Word's ability to open XML files is the infringement? Or simply using XML? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 15:32 
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It's probably the way it modifies them that's the issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 17:12 
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Yeah, the patent starts off saying it's a system for modifying the architecture and content separately from each other.

It then proceeds to dribble incomprehensibly about maps of metacodes and other things, in the way patents do.

The actual patent text, if anyone else is mental enough to want to see it.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore due to judge's verdict
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 18:59 
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BikNorton wrote:
PNG didn't do animation until after GIF expired - as I remember it, so the usual pitcher of salt.

Edit: Chrome 3 says "Your browser does not support animated PNGs", so apparently it's still not quite there. 8)
Edit: Also IE8 on Win7.

Also Firefox 3.5 on Mac.

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