The Death of eBay

Dimrill · **Posted:** Mon Jul 13, 2009 19:05

http://www.worldtrademarkreview.com/dai ... 6a13097ced

Quote:

Brand owners have today come out in force to protest against an action that they say is a deliberate attempt by eBay to confuse consumers and EU policymakers. Several brand owner groups have told WTR that, in its campaign to amend EU competition law, eBay is misrepresenting the legitimate fight against counterfeits as a way of stifling all internet trade.

eBay has this week contacted UK private sellers to argue that it is "under threat" from brand owners who, it alleges, are trying to "block the sale of their products on online marketplaces". The website adds that "brand owners argue that their objective is to prevent the sale of counterfeits on eBay," then encourages the 14 million UK users to sign a petition to amend the EU Vertical Restraints Regulation (2790/1999).

Doesn't sound promising.

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Jul 13, 2009 20:09

Oh, I got that email. Didn't open it.

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Mon Jul 13, 2009 20:33

I'm glad I didn't sign their petition now. Fat lot of good it will do them any way.

I'd miss Ebay, but it does suck.

Derek The Halls · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 3742

Ebay can be very useful so I wouldn't want it to disappear. Also it might encourage people to become competition for me on Amazon which wouldn't be good. It's just big corporations being crap again.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Don't use it much but am selling the oldest camera on there at the moment.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

It's about a year since I said I wouldn't be surprised if ebay crumbled within two years. I stand by that, to be honest. They've pissed off too many people to last forever.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

I think SA is wrong. eBay won't disappear because people are annoyed with them; it'll only disappear if there is a credible competitor for people to move to, and there isn't. For all the grumbling, eBay continues to make money, so they're clearly doing something right.

DBSnappa · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:47

Pain killers not working then?

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

sinister agent wrote:

They've pissed off too many people to last forever.

Because pissing people off always brings evil mega global sinister corporations to their knees. How can we forget the collapse of Microsoft a few years back.

Oh wait.........

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

DBSnappa wrote:

Pain killers not working then?

Not so well in the small hours, no

Plissken · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:29

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

eBay won't disappear because people are annoyed with them; it'll only disappear if there is a credible competitor for people to move to, and there isn't.

And the keyword is "credible".

kalmar · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:32

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

I think SA is wrong. eBay won't disappear because people are annoyed with them; it'll only disappear if there is a credible competitor for people to move to, and there isn't. For all the grumbling, eBay continues to make money, so they're clearly doing something right.

Quite. I'll continue to use them until they do something that is either completely outrageous or they piss me off personally.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

Well that's kind of what I mean - someone else will come along, do it better, or even about as well, and enough people are pissed off with ebay that they'll just jump ship and go to the new place. Especially if someone cleverly combines a wanky faddo myspace-alike with an ebay-alike and gets all the kids on board.

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

The barrier to entry is huge though, you need to get over the hump that there's no bidders because there's fewer items than ebay and no items because there's fewer bidders than ebay.

I can only see Microsoft or Google have the resources to beat that and idiotic fanboyism would probably kill the first one.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Dudley's right about the chicken-and-egg thing. Mostly, a potential eBay competitor would have to have a strong enough brand to provoke interest and trust. I think the most likely candidate is Amazon, as the Marketplace is already the closest thing to eBay. I'm not even sure if they would need to add an auction system to it; I don't think the auction setup is why most people choose eBay.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2009 15:51

What's the difference between an egg and a wank?

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

You can beat an egg.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

There've been plenty of attempts to take the eBay crown in the last few years, haven't they? All fallen by the wayside unless you live in Japan.

Plissken · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2009 16:07

I think that one trick is to go around it and specialise in providing a niche service with little hassle. I think Etsy is one to look out for.

devilman · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2009 16:11

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Dudley's right about the chicken-and-egg thing. Mostly, a potential eBay competitor would have to have a strong enough brand to provoke interest and trust. I think the most likely candidate is Amazon, as the Marketplace is already the closest thing to eBay. I'm not even sure if they would need to add an auction system to it; I don't think the auction setup is why most people choose eBay.

Amazon did have an auction section for a good while but it was tucked away and the games section had the same few items repeatedly listed.

I can only see Google being able to realistically compete with Ebay but I doubt they would as I imagine Ebay spend a fortune on Google Ads and I think that Ebay displays Google Ads too? (I can't remember as Ebay was the reason I installed Ad Block Plus)

throughsilver · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6197

sinister agent wrote:

Well that's kind of what I mean - someone else will come along, do it better, or even about as well, and enough people are pissed off with ebay that they'll just jump ship and go to the new place. Especially if someone cleverly combines a wanky faddo myspace-alike with an ebay-alike and gets all the kids on board.

Let's start BeBay.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2009 17:30

Considering The French made a big fuss about their own word for e-mail, I'm surprised they haven't gone and made a French only online auction house. OuiBay, maybe.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

Excellent. See also the Baltimore gangsters version.

kalmar · **Posted:** Tue Jul 14, 2009 17:31

Hah, I got that! Yay me.

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

http://www.gamerbay.co.uk/

New free games only auction site. This might be the way to attack ebay, by nipping away at specific subject areas.

devilman · **Posted:** Wed Jul 15, 2009 13:35

Dudley wrote:

http://www.gamerbay.co.uk/

New free games only auction site. This might be the way to attack ebay, by nipping away at specific subject areas.

Maybe, although I did join another games-only one a year or two back and I can't even remember what it was called, which says a lot.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

56 people now watching my camera. Some of them possibly murderers. Who knows?

But that's a decent amount of interest I'd imagine so perhaps Ebay is far from dead.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Well it went just now. Hoping I'll get the payment then I can DHL it.

Despite it being a UK auction someone from Fiji was bidding and trying to scam the camera from me at the last moment. He just happened to have a friend in London. Yeah right!

End of an Era · **Joined:** 25th Nov, 2008 **Posts:** 1041

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Dudley's right about the chicken-and-egg thing. Mostly, a potential eBay competitor would have to have a strong enough brand to provoke interest and trust. I think the most likely candidate is Amazon, as the Marketplace is already the closest thing to eBay. I'm not even sure if they would need to add an auction system to it; I don't think the auction setup is why most people choose eBay.

Amazon at one point had an auction system. No idea if it still exists, but they used to.

I think Dudley is wrong in suggesting that only a mega-corporation like Google or Microsoft stands a chance of competing with eBay, in fact I'd suggest the reverse. A viable competitor would have to be a very agile outfit capable of responding to change very quickly. They'd need substantial venture capital for advertising (online and offline) which works or at least is memorable (like that Compare the Meerkat campaign) plus they'd also need a new spin on the whole auction-website - no idea what this is, which is why I'm still working, but consider the explosion of social networking sites. I still consider Twitter to be a crap idea, but it doesn't stop it from being a popular alternative (or supplement) to blogging.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

The cunt who won is bickering already that he won't pay the VAT. He can GTFF frankly, he pays up or he doesn't get the goods.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:12

chinnyhill10 wrote:

The cunt who won is bickering already that he won't pay the VAT. He can GTFF frankly, he pays up or he doesn't get the goods.

He should have read the conditions before bidding. He does not have a leg to stand on

metalangel · **Posted:** Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:53

chinnyhill10 wrote:

Despite it being a UK auction someone from Fiji was bidding and trying to scam the camera from me at the last moment. He just happened to have a friend in London. Yeah right!

You'd need a camera in Fiji, to take pictures of all the hot girls running naked on the beach.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Kovacs Caprios wrote:

chinnyhill10 wrote:

The cunt who won is bickering already that he won't pay the VAT. He can GTFF frankly, he pays up or he doesn't get the goods.

He should have read the conditions before bidding. He does not have a leg to stand on

Well yes. I pointed it out twice in the listing and again in an update when someone queried it.

He then pointed me to some obscure Ebay rule that says I am responsible for the VAT. Like fuck I am!

I set out a contract which he then accepts. It's all made very clear. Frankly I'm prepared to get banned from Ebay over this (I can just setup another account anyway) so he pays up or can GTFF.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

"Dear Fuckface257,

I offered you a contract that you that you didn't read but then agreed to and are now bitching about it. Pay up or fuck off.

Love Chinny".

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:05

Wait, you're charging VAT on top of the auction ending price?

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Grim... wrote:

Wait, you're charging VAT on top of the auction ending price?

As clearly stated in the listing. In big letters. Twice.

I charge VAT on every other service I sell and I'm not taking a hit on it frankly when it also turns out that Fuckface257 is VAT registered and can claim it back anyway.

The trouble with Ebay is that it and its users need to take a walk in the real world. I suspect the reason Ebay had quietly banned VAT charges is because they can't put fees on them hence are a bad thing. Well fuck them, fuck them all the way to hades. Chinster FTW or I'll keep the bloody thing. :attitude:

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/businesscentre/ ... s/tax.html

Quote:

Do I have to charge VAT on the items I sell?
HMRC's guide to VAT will also help you to find out whether you need to charge VAT on the items you sell. You may also find Business Link's Duty and VAT liability calculation tool useful for working out your tax liability when selling internationally.

Remember that if you're VAT-registered and you've determined that an item you've listed on eBay qualifies for VAT, you must clearly state the amount or percentage of VAT that will be charged in the listing. If you didn't make it clear before the buyer agreed to purchase the item or service that VAT would be charged, it's against eBay rules to charge VAT. Instead, you'll be responsible for paying any VAT owed on the item.

Note: Falsification of information to evade payment of VAT may result in civil fines and criminal prosecution. eBay cooperates with the police and other law enforcement agencies in cases involving potential falsification of information to evade payment of VAT.

Sounds clear cut to me.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:26

Yeah, Fuckface257 is screwed here.

Still, I've never seen anyone charging VAT on eBay before.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38698

Grim... wrote:

Still, I've never seen anyone charging VAT on eBay before.

I've seen it with computer hardware. Nice round figure of say £50 and small lettering saying 'VAT not included'

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Sounds clear cut to me.

Thank you good Dr. Fuckface257 has been sent a copy of that link. The implication being that it's tough shit if he didn't read the contract IN BIG BOLD LETTERS.

I'll see how this one pans out. He's getting a bloody good deal anyway as on the open market it's probably worth £100-£200 more. I'm not bothered what it went for but am bothered if I effectively have to hand over a 15% discount and then he claims that back!

Additionally I've paid VAT on some Ebay purchases before now. Notably the DVD recorder I purchased 6 months ago. It's rare but not unheard of.

metalangel · **Posted:** Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:38

If he makes any more fuss, threaten to report him to eBay for having an offensive username

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Quote:

Dr. Fuckface257

You rang?

metalangel · **Posted:** Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:43

That should be your new gamertag. You can have another 15 minutes of fame!

Quote:

El Reg was shocked to learn that the latest victim of Microsoft's campaign of terror, DrFuckface257, is none other than Dick Gaywood who made headlines last year for having an offensive name.

Acquaintance of the aforementioned Gaywood, Toby 'TobyHiggins' Higgins, scoffed that the 'you can't have your real name as your gamertag' clause cited in the previous case hadn't been used on him yet.

Another witness, who asked not to be named but is described as a lock-gluing flat-topped crisp-munching has-been, also issued a statement but refused us permission to publish it unless we paid him in advance, citing 'problems with this sort of thing before' and a need to buy pellets lest he be eaten by his own rats.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Quote:

Dr. Fuckface257

You rang?

Er apologies. That.s "Dr. . Fuckface257......" I think.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Fuckface257 is still refusing to budge in the face of TOTAL REASON. He's been on the Ebay forums with his chums and sent me a link to try and prove his point. Problem is even the Ebay crowd can't agree (or spell).

So off to the Ebay dispute process we go because I'm not paying £50 in fees for some chancer to try and get the better of me.

I'm fucking done with selling on Ebay. Between the fees and people not bothering to read the listings, what the fuck is the point?

This is what it must feel like to be (Linda Barker - Ed).

Dimrill · **Posted:** Mon Jul 20, 2009 17:09

I'm always wary of selling on eBay. I've done it a grand total of 8 times, the biggest of which was an ECW DVD collection that I was not going to send out by anything less than RM special delivery. Bloke who won it whinged like a fucking bitch about that.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Dimrill wrote:

Bloke who won it whinged like a fucking bitch about that.

What I want to know is, who the fuck sits there bidding 400 quid without even reading the bloody listing?

Dimrill · **Posted:** Mon Jul 20, 2009 17:20

Well exactly. Most think they can bully/negotiate after the auction.

myp · **Posted:** Mon Jul 20, 2009 17:22

Dimrill wrote:

Well exactly. Most think they can bully/negotiate after the auction.

Or just bid in anger without reading them, because they're pillocks.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

Presenting ebay - it's just like working in a shop, except that the nice customers never talk to you.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Mon Jul 20, 2009 18:43

I only every ask the seller to bundle different items, if I muliple buy.

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The Death of eBay

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