Be Excellent To Each Other

Eurgh. Just went to pre order and noticed this.



Fuck that, I think I'll pass and wait for a hacked one.

Get a 360.

Tell. Them.

If people who actually don't buy it because of this shit never tell them it won't change.

Is that not standard for PC games?

I'm sure people have told them.. I can't blame them tbh. The problem is it simply won't run on my PC.

I have Nero tools which creates virtual drives and Daemon for mounting ISOs, IMGs etc.

Funny part is I use them for perfectly legal reasons.. I have hundreds of original PC games on CDs. And because I'm quite aware that Cds don't last forever I have iso'd them and put numerous games on one DVD as isos just incase. Stuff like Daytona USA PC is very hard to replace and plus, I've paid for it (I have about 90% of all Sega PC titles).

As soon as you install securom it looks at your drives, finds the virtual ones and then immediately accuses you of being a thief and the game won't run.

This wasn't so much of a problem with stuff like Crysis, because it's a pretty much single player game and so I just got a nodvd exe for it. However with a game that's built soley for online play (well, pretty much.. I would imagine one player bites chunks) then I will never get it online using a nodvd or any kind of securom bypass.

Thus, it's un-buyable on account that it simply won't work. And I'm not changing my software config around just to get it running (IE removing all traces of nero and daemon tools).

Meh

It is now yes. However, as I said, sometimes I am happy to buy a legit game and then use a nodvd because you don't forfiet any online play. Plus you get the added bonus of load times being extremely fast as opposed to constant winding up and down of your dvd drive. Problem is that any game that's designed soley for online play and is being pimped as such is just a worthless waste of money if you nodvd it because then you can't play online.

I rely on my drive imaging and mounting (another one is Acronis true image) too much to remove it for a game.

So basically you have set you machin up in a way that you can't play legit games?

Yup. Using perfectly legal software setups.

Ones that I am not prepared to change or alter because they rely on the wellbeing of my PC. Securom finds any virtual drives and immediately throws up a flag and labels you a criminal. Even though I use them for totally legal reasons.

I suppose I could always go dual boot and have a litter tray OS for gaming but it just seems like way too much hassle.

You are a criminal.

Very funny.

It's not funny, it's a fact, look:

See?

Plus he plays (or at the very least, played) a pirated version of Fallout 3. For a long time.

I use vitrual drives and never had a problem with SR...

So what you guys are saying is you don't own anything at all that's not perfectly legal?.

Be it a film, mp3, game or whatever. You've never played an emulator because you don't own the roms legally (IE in original form) or anything arcade because you don't own the board or machine?

If that's the case? fine. If not (which I highly suspect) then please get off the high and mighty "you're a criminal" stool.

Oh no, I torrent a world of shit, but I don't harp on about how anyone has "forced" me to, I freely admit it. I know what I'm doing, and I'm not the hypocrite here.

No-one's said that they don't also do this sort of thing. But we don't complain when the games we've purchased (rightly) deduce that we're criminals and prevent us playing the game.

It's wrong for them to do it anyway, owning pirated software shouldn't stop you playing other software that you've purchased legally, but you have said on a number of occasions in this thread that the software has decided that you're a criminal when you're not, which is clearly wrong.

I don't see how wanting to buy a game legally and then running it hacked because it will not work legally is hypocritical. At the end of the day if it was able to work on my computer I would have had no issue or qualms about paying for it (and usually do more often than not).

What I said was that Securom accuses me of wrong doing even though I have not yet done anything wrong. When I tracked the error when Crysis (that I bought legally) would not work it came back saying it was being caused by virtual drives and that I should disable, remove and uninstall any software that creates virtual drives.

Which after handing over 35 quid for the game I was not prepared to do just to play it so I had to behave like a criminal in order to get something to work that I had completely legally purchased and owned.

And I have done the same thing again (even though I find it incredibly annoying) to get other games running. Sadly as I mentioned certain games are just not viable using these methods. Not only that but I then have to take a risk of getting a virus or malware in order to get the product I paid for functioning.

I don't recall playing the whole "whiter than white" thing. What I said however was perfectly valid. I didn't even use the "treat me like a criminal and I will behave like one" excuse.

In every game I have on PC since quake (as it had the music as tracks on the cd), you can quite happily remove the dvd from the drive after it's started, it doesn't rely on the dvd for data purposes.



In my case, yes. If I have not given the appropriate people the correct payment, I cannot see why I sholuld have a right to what they're offering. If I do not agree with the payment, or how they're offering, I don't take it by another means.

Any game with Securom on constantly checks that the original disc is in the drive. That's how it works. It also tags the drive that the game was installed in and the game will then only function in that drive. Because of this method it needs to search for a small piece of data on the dvd to validate it. Thus, it needs to spin the drive up, find it and then spin it down causing lag and wait times.




I don't recall saying I had a right to it at any point?

STOP DERAILING MY FUCKING THREAD WITH BORING STUPID TECHY PIRACY DRM TALK.

Thank you!

Well if it isn't hypocrisy it's a case of pot kettle & black.

In which case, I just have to go "PC games, tch", and stay mostly using machines designed for the purpose.



I wasn't saying that you thought you did, that's just my take on pirating stuff, and why I don't.

Mr Dave, securom games work in most PCs if the spec is right. As long as you haven't wangdoodled your machine.

It is like formatting your Xbox HDD for a MAC and complaining your Xbox won't read it anymore.

Who's in a splittin' mood?

Not really, because I don't care if my PC thinks I'm a criminal or stops me from playing legit games. Because, you know, it's right.

Fair enough. TBH I don't like 'stealing' or being a criminal much at all. TBH after watching the video of it I think I'll pass any way because it doesn't look much different to Flatout 2.

I do have a conscience (sic) and I do know right from wrong. So I don't really need it pointing out to me. (that wasn't aimed at you, just how I feel).

As with any one I suppose I try my hardest not to break the law, sometimes I do. Humanity does not come with perfection.

I'm finding this pretty confusing.

If what you are saying is that Securom has labelled me a criminal (which I don't take issue with because, you know, it's true) that's fine.

However, there then lies the reason it is labelling me a criminal which doesn't make it right.

It does so because it doesn't like perfectly legal software that has a plethora load of legal uses, ones which I use it for and thus is probably wrong many more times than it is right.

I own (at a guess) about five 'illegal' games. Two of which I have actually played. However, if I didn't then what Securom is labelling me as would be entirely wrong.

Sure, it's right in the general scheme of things . I do own illegal software. However, the reason it seems to think it is justified in stopping what I paid for from working is completely and fundamentally wrong.

Using a nodvd crack is actually an offence under copyright law, regardless of whether you own the original game.

You're aware that this

isn't legal in this country?

Get out of my head, Craster.

I would imagine so. However, I would also imagine that charging someone money for something that doesn't work is also an offense.

Not that I want to go down that road any way. By my nature the sole reason I run a nodvd is because I can't be arsed complaining, returning the game and so on. Not because I think that I am owed anything but more for the fact I don't like hassle or getting annoyed.

I wasn't no.

Am now.

I wouldn't touch a game that decided it wanted to control what else it did with my PC. That's not how computers work.

That said, I have several games with securom and not one of them has complained about Daemon Tools yet.

Rubbish but true, I'm afraid.
Mind you, the same can be said for all the MP3s people have on their iPods, so I don't think the Po-lice will be knocking on anyone's doors.

but it does work, you have by choice set your machine up so it won't. You can't blame securrom for that can you?

That's like saying it would be perfectly reasonable to release a game that doesn't work in people's houses who have a red front door. After all, they chose to have a red front door, right?

Stopping your all purpose machine doing many useful things so you can play a game is so obtuse that it's close enough to "Doesn't work" for me.

If I had a car with a big boot and my new furry dice stopped the car working unless it was filled with cheese I'd complain too even though I have the choice to set up my car so it works.

Right, that's the car analogy out of the way, who had Hitler?

Except that if you're using cracks for it, you'd also fall foul of the 'knowingly circumventing copyright protection' clauses, too.

I want a car with a boot full of cheese.




Fuck - I want a car.

That's not quite fair though - 99% (a made-up number, but I suspect I'm still being generous) of people who use v.drives are probably using them for EVIL PURPOSES.
I'd much rather it did it like this than go hunting for .torrent files

99% of people who have WINDOWS use it for evil purposes. Perhaps it should check for that?

(I wonder if 99% of people speed occasionally in cars...)

I agree, with you the game should work, but it must be hard to develop games to work on any setup.

So if you have vastly altered your machine, and the game does not work...

It is like converting your pickup truck to a monster truck, then complaing your spare wheel won't fit any more.

Nah, i use Linux for evil purposes

Whoah, whoah. They have deliberately written this stuff to go out and look for virtual CD type applications and then refuse to run. That's not the same as having difficulty coding for heterogeneous setups.

Going down the 'software conflict' path is going to become extremely complicated and tbh? a bit ridiculous.

If I was to argue my case I could quite simply say that I could delete any illegal MP3 or video files from my PC, destroy the 5 or so 'totally' illegal DVDs of games I own and then turn around and say -

"I've done absolutely nothing wrong and this software is accusing me of wrongdoing and stopping a game I paid for from running"

As I said before, fundamentally what Securom is doing is wrong. Obviously it's doing it for a reason and stops my games from working because it knows that Daemon/alcohol etc can be used for running pirated software. But the point remains there are perfectly legal uses for all of that software (one for example creating backups and images of software I created myself).

I'm perfectly aware of software problems and conflicts as I used to work in a IT company. IE - "we're not touching that with a 40ft pole" the same as any other computer company (Dell, Alienware, etc only cover faults with hardware).

I'm also perfectly aware of the pristine brick wall you end up banging your head on trying to resolve these matters (as software companies play the "now pass the blame and don't blame me" game) and thus I'll usually find my own fix without worrying too much about being right or wrong.

No it isn't, having a DVD drive is not "vastly altering your machine" by any stretch. If we must persist with this insanity it's roughly on the "adding an extra cup holder" level of modding. And as craster points out it's not accidentally not working (something I've only known happen once, with Sensible Soccer 2006 that crashes if you have an X:\ drive of any type), it's deliberately refusing to run because you've used software it doesn't approve of.

A few years ago, out house was busted by the police, thinking my housemate was head of a child pron ring/pirate ring or somesuch*. They took anything they could allowably get their hands on (i.e. they weren't allowed in my room, or any of the other unrelated parties living there, but took anything vaguely relating to the description in communal areas and his room. So off went any VHS tapes, recorded CDs, computers, etc etc)

A few months later, most of it was returned, including all the series of south park burned onto a few DVDs, and similarly obviously copied stuff. The only things that weren't were the hard drives in his computer. (The one in the lounge computer was returned. Unsurprising, as that was my computer)

Shows how much they actually police this beyond the headlines.

* - turned out to be mistaken identity due to his use of Kazaa, I seem to remember.

and using virtual drives is not the the same as sticking a DVD in is it?

To the OS or any program using them, yes it is. That's what they are. To windows they're identical to actual (usually SCSI) drives.