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LewieP
 Post subject: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:07 
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SavyGamer

Joined: 29th Apr, 2008
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The fuckers.

Nokia have made their (apparently rather good) Satnav software "Ovi Maps" a free download.

It is compatible with my 5800.

However.

HOWEVER.

I am on O2.

To use the new version of Ovi Maps, you need to be on firmware version 31 (the newest version).

O2 have not updated the firmware past version 21 (which is very very old)

You can hack your device (voiding your warentee) and update it without O2's permission. For this you need a USB wire for the phone. However, I have lost mine, and since it is not a standard USB for no good reason whatsover, I would have to buy a new one from Nokia for £expensive.

And this is on a phone that O2 still sell brand new. It's not like this is asking for legacy support or anything, it is a handset that they sell new, and have outdated firmware which locks out hugely useful features.

Fake edit:
Everyone wrote:
Get an iPhone
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:09 
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The maps are a free download, you still need a license to use the navigation software. In it's current form, it's not as good as the free Google Maps app.

You're not missing anything, man.
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Grim...
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:09 
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None of this is really Nokia's fault, is it?

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LewieP
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:11 
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DavPaz wrote:
The maps are a free download, you still need a license to use the navigation software. In it's current form, it's not as good as the free Google Maps app.

You're not missing anything, man.

Nah, as of today they made the navigation software free too.

Grim... wrote:
None of this is really Nokia's fault, is it?

A little bit. They are responsible for the shitty proprietary USB port, and for making firmware updates that aren't universal.

Edit: It didn't help that after being on hold with O2 for half an hour, they just said "Ring this 0845 number for Nokia, they will sort it out"
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Grim...
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:13 
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LewieP wrote:
Grim... wrote:
None of this is really Nokia's fault, is it?

A little bit. They are responsible for the shitty proprietary USB port

Which you lost the cable for.

LewieP wrote:
, and for making firmware updates that aren't universal.

They are. O2 don't send them out until they've "O2-ified" them. It was the same (although nowhere near as bad, I've heard) on Orange, which I had for my N95. I just unlocked that. If it breaks and you need to exchange it just drop it in a sink for a day.

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metalangel
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:18 
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Is the 'shitty proprietary USB cable' the same as an N95 one, anyone?
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Grim...
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:19 
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MetalAngel wrote:
Is the 'shitty proprietary USB cable' the same as an N95 one, anyone?

I doubt it, the N95 one was just mini-usb.

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I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.

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metalangel
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:21 
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Honey Boo Boo

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Thought I'd ask. My dad has an entirely different model of Nokia and yet his cable worked with my N95.
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:21 
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Genuine-CA-101- ... B002ASFKTQ

Check it. Word, yo.
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LewieP
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:23 
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SavyGamer

Joined: 29th Apr, 2008
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Thanks for that link, I might end up doing that.

I just resent a lot that I should have to void my warentee just to get a bloody firmware update.

MetalAngel wrote:
Thought I'd ask. My dad has an entirely different model of Nokia and yet his cable worked with my N95.

Yeah, they like to chop and change what ports/functionality they include just to keep people on their toes/fuck up the environment.
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:25 
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Not for much longer.

When does the micro-usb standard kick in?
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Bluecup
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:34 
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O2 5800 is up to the v31 firmware. It's not upto the newest v40whatever firmware. I updated just the other day.

And also you don't need to update using USB, you can do it over the air. And it also keeps your settings.

So Lewie, on the 5800 go Settings > Phone > Phone mgmt. > Device Updates > Options > Check for Updates.

:nerd:
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LewieP
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:35 
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Joined: 29th Apr, 2008
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Bluecup wrote:
O2 5800 is up to the v31 firmware. It's not upto the newest v40whatever firmware. I updated just the other day.

And also you don't need to update using USB, you can do it over the air. And it also keeps your settings.

So Lewie, on the 5800 go Settings > Phone > Phone mgmt. > Device Updates > Options > Check for Updates.

:nerd:

Did that.

Won't give me anything past v21
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:36 
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My T-Mobile 5800 is on v31.0.101 and runs the maps apps fine.
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Sir Taxalot
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:36 
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Can you dig it?

Joined: 5th Apr, 2008
Posts: 4756
Grim... wrote:
They are. O2 don't send them out until they've "O2-ified" them. It was the same (although nowhere near as bad, I've heard) on Orange, which I had for my N95.


My wife had a Sony Ericsson K810 on orange, and I had one on o2. The orange software was utter gash, the menu icons changed to ugly ones, no customisation, options missing (you couldn't get the option the big clock at the bottom of the screen FFS) and it seeme dto run really slowly and have 'orange' crap all over the place >:( .

I had to debrand it, which wasn't too hard but sounded quite risky, and then update the firmware. Then she dropped it into a pint of squash and had to get a new one :facepalm:

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Bluecup
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:38 
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LewieP wrote:
Bluecup wrote:
O2 5800 is up to the v31 firmware. It's not upto the newest v40whatever firmware. I updated just the other day.

And also you don't need to update using USB, you can do it over the air. And it also keeps your settings.

So Lewie, on the 5800 go Settings > Phone > Phone mgmt. > Device Updates > Options > Check for Updates.

:nerd:

Did that.

Won't give me anything past v21


How odd then. Mine worked fine OTA.
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LewieP
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:41 
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On the phone to nokia now. They say that the PC suite should let me do it.

@Bluecup which colour is yours? Because the different colours have different firmwares (mine is red)
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Bluecup
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:46 
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Mine is red as well. Think we got ours at around the same time as well :S

Can't remember now if I did it over wifi or 3g now. That might of made a difference.

Nokia maps does look good. Might be best to get a new cable anyway as you can preload maps onto it saving bandwidth/battery from streaming the map data. Just can't try it out very well from my desk.
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:49 
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Hmm... you've got me wondering if I should debrand my phone now. Buggers.

http://sjc-nokia5800.blogspot.com/
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metalangel
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:53 
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Joined: 28th Mar, 2008
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Sir Taxalot wrote:
Then she dropped it into a pint of squash and had to get a new one :facepalm:


I'm sure myfinger and The Egg will chuckle with glee remembering a phone going into someone's pint in Wetherspoon's.
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Bluecup
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:54 
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DavPaz wrote:
Hmm... you've got me wondering if I should debrand my phone now. Buggers.

http://sjc-nokia5800.blogspot.com/


I'm pondering that as well. The new v40whatever firmware does look a lot better. More menus have kinetic scrolling, improved home screen etc.
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parm
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:57 
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In my experience, it's definitely worth debranding a Nokia phone that's come from pretty well any UK network.

Because networks like to brand the user experience - slapping their logos, custom themes, shitty little photo sharing applications that add 15 seconds to the time it takes to take a photo (I'm looking at you, Orange) - every firmware update from Nokia (or any mobile company) has to go through the networks to be branded (made shit) before it goes out to customers. So, Orange customers run a slightly different firmware revision to O2 customers, Vodafone customers, etc. The way this is done is the phones have different product codes for each network, and its this that determines which version of the firmware you get.

Fortunately, the product codes are stored in flash memory on the phone, and some clever bods figured out how to change it. If you change the product code to the generic straight-from-Nokia product code, you can install a generic firmware and get all the extra spangles - Nokia are actually pretty great for after-market support for their devices but you wouldn't know it from the way the networks hand out the updates.

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TheVision
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 14:59 
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I won my 5800 from Pepsi and as such it hasn't got any kind of branding on it. Win!

It does however keep fucking up with regards to the screen so... you know, win some.. lose some. :facepalm:

I debranded my old N95 which was on Orange and it was the best thing I ever did with it. It was also a lot easier than I thought it would be!
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Bluecup
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 15:09 
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This Nokia Maps is a big thing for nokia phones.

engadget wrote:
Man, you thought Garmin and TomTom were in trouble when Google announced its free Navigation service... wait until investors hear Nokia's news. Reuters is reporting that Nokia will offer free navigation on its smartphones. However, instead of just the US (the current Google limitation sans hacking), Nokia will be demonstrating its reach by offering free turn-by-turn directions in 74 countries in 46 languages -- a move that should cover 20 million smartphones globally with Ovi Maps available in over 180 countries. Damn.

..

Starting today, Ovi Maps walk and drive navigation is free across the globe. Drivers receive turn-by-turn voice guidance including lane assistance, traffic information (in 10 countries including the US), and safety camera and speed warnings while pedestrians will be guided on shortcuts through parks and pedestrian-only zones in over 100 cities across the globe. It all works offline too, which should extend battery life and keep that navigation humming even while puttering about in data dead zones without racking up international roaming charges (take that, Google). From March 2010, all new Nokia GPS-enabled smartphones will come installed with the new Ovi Maps application and pre-loaded with local country map data and walk and drive navigation with access to location-aware Lonely Planet and Michelin travel guides at no extra cost. Additional premium guides like a weather service and events / movies are also included. Just 10 devices from Nokia's massive catalog are available today -- a list that includes the N97 Mini, 5800 XpressMusic, 5800 navigation edition, E52, E55, E72, 5230, 6710 navigator, 6730 classic and X6.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/noki ... nes-globa/
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LewieP
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 15:11 
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Joined: 29th Apr, 2008
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Yeah, it's basically thanks to google doing the free satnav for Android.
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 15:16 
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Well, I followed that website's instructions on debranding... it did nowt. Nada. Still stuck with v31. Never mind
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Joans
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 15:25 
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Wait, tell me more about hacking this onto my G1.

Edit - The google stuff, obv, not the nokia stuff.
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 15:28 
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DavPaz wrote:
Well, I followed that website's instructions on debranding... it did nowt. Nada. Still stuck with v31. Never mind

Wait, forget that, it's updating now to 40.0.005. Woo and indeed hoo.
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 15:58 
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... aaand, it's changed nothing of consequence.

Bah.
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LewieP
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 16:15 
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Bloke on the phone at O2 doesn't know what firmware is....
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Grim...
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 16:32 
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DavPaz wrote:
Not for much longer.

When does the micro-usb standard kick in?


Isn't that just for charging?

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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 16:34 
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Grim... wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Not for much longer.

When does the micro-usb standard kick in?


Isn't that just for charging?

They'd be buggers if they didn't use it for data as well.

Wait, what am I saying...
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LewieP
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 16:35 
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ooh, this looks fun
http://support.skyfire.com/forums/index ... topic=5399
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TheVision
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 21:39 
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I've said it before and I'll say it again.. The Nokia software is rubbish! Proper rubbish. It promises that it can do tons of nice things then fails to do the simplest.

It took me 4 or 5 attempts to update the software on my phone... It's crap.
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Bobbyaro
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 22:36 
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Don't get me started on this, I have a bug on my phone which means I lose half the functionality of the touch screen. This has been abot since they first released the phone and they haven't fixed it. I shall not be getting a Nokia again. Oh, and what The Vision said.

Also, what the hell is Kinetic Scrolling?

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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 22:54 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
Also, what the hell is Kinetic Scrolling?


Dunno. I'm on the latest firmware now and, apart from the Home Screen looking a bit different (and shite), it seems *exactly* the same.
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Bluecup
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 23:39 
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DavPaz wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
Also, what the hell is Kinetic Scrolling?


Dunno. I'm on the latest firmware now and, apart from the Home Screen looking a bit different (and shite), it seems *exactly* the same.


You should be able to flick up and down on the screen and the menus just move. But not all. Nokia software is pretty much all half arsed in recent years. Even I, who has only had Nokia phones, am thinking of getting a different brand next time.

Although Ovi Maps does seem to be very good.
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TheVision
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 23:44 
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My Ovi maps is still trying to charge me.... ?:|
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Grim...
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 23:57 
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TheVision wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again.. The Nokia software is rubbish! Proper rubbish. It promises that it can do tons of nice things then fails to do the simplest.

Goodness - I always loved the software that came with my N95. I guess they made it too complicated?

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Bluecup
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 0:03 
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TheVision wrote:
My Ovi maps is still trying to charge me.... ?:|


You will need to update it. There should be an "app update" app somewhere on the phone. When I did it I had to do it twice, but that might of been my fault for not refreshing the update list.
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TheVision
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 0:27 
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Ahhhh... found it. It's updating now!

Thanks! :hat:
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TheVision
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:55 
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Interestingly enough... the firmware update changed the way I have to deactivate my morning alarm.

That was fun trying to figure that out at 7am this morning.
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LewieP
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 13:45 
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Joined: 29th Apr, 2008
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Finally.

Got a replacement wire, and after much more hackery than I would have liked, I am on v41, and got Ovi Maps downloading now.
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 13:48 
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Yep, it seems I was wrong about the freebie Maps. It is indeed free and very useful. Must get a car charger...
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Bluecup
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 14:31 
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TheVision wrote:
Interestingly enough... the firmware update changed the way I have to deactivate my morning alarm.

That was fun trying to figure that out at 7am this morning.

:this: It's got a funny slider thing now to turn off the alarm. Still don't quite understand it.

However the fact that it always switches to qwerty keyboard when you turn it on it's side is nice. And it's seems to be menu lists (like program options or the contact list) that you can flick and it scrolls, but it doesn't work on the main app select screens. Which is the the sort of half-hearted approach that is turning me away from Nokia.

Ovi maps is nice and quick. And you can get it to sync up with the Ovi maps website and sync routes and stuff though your ovi account. I can see me using it a lot more now. A car charger and a mount is only about £5 on ebay, but then it's a case of picking the one that won't be crap.
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metalangel
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:54 
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Honey Boo Boo

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So are the new Ovi maps better than the old ones? Do you get full navigation and everything for free, or is it still GPS location is free but navigation costs?
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:57 
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As far as I can tell, it's all free. The maps certainly are.
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LewieP
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:28 
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Yep, free turn by turn navigation.

You even get the voice of a lady who knows all the street names (albiet phonetically).

I gather it works in shedloads of countries too.
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DavPaz
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:29 
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Ah reminds me... car charger.
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Bluecup
 Post subject: Re: Fucking Nokia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:31 
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LewieP wrote:
Yep, free turn by turn navigation.

You even get the voice of a lady who knows all the street names (albiet phonetically).

I gather it works in shedloads of countries too.


The Surfer Dude voice navigation is "hilarious".
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