Be Excellent To Each Other

Ok, I am about to head out into the big wide world and rent somewhere to live on my own. Because I am useless at stuff I will fail to think of at least 3 obvious things that I should bear in mind before renting a property, so I would like to call on the collective expertise of the forum to make sure I don't find myself screwed somewhere down the line.

One of the properties I'm planning on viewing is let only, and from what I understand this just means that the landlord has asked the letting agent to find them a tenant and that will be the end of their involvement. Presumably my contract will be with the landlord, will I have any comeback with the letting agency if the landlord isn't living up to their side of the bargain?

So, basically, what should I know, what should I ask and what should I look out for?

Thank you fellow BeeXers (sorry Grim... )

Joans! I need to move out too-me and you can live together!!!

I'm afraid I've already told the agency it's just for 1 person. Sorry.

BeeX HOUSE!?

Seriously though. The landlord probably pays a fee to the agency to manage the house. You'll get a standard agreement from them (in my experience)

If you're going through letting agencies, then your contract and any contact will be made through them, not your landlord. Basically landlords pay them to sort all the shit out on their behalf.

you suck!

You'll need to report to them, not the landlord as all contact goes through them. Make sure to take pictures when you enter the place for the first time as people sometimes get awkward about the 'state' that you will leave it in-arseholes like to keep deposits basically imo.

Also make sure when they do the 'evaluation' of the flat that you do open your mouth and say 'I agree that the carpet is in v.g.c or I don't agree it is' because in the end it is going to be YOUR home and when you leave it (if you do) they can't say 'the carpet was in v.g.c and it's only g.c now! Lets have some deposit money off you to keep our filthy mitts on!'

Don't be afraid to ask basically, a closed mouth catches no flies

Yep. Once you've rung them to tell them your requirements, it's set in stone. No changing it - nosirree.

I believe that's what usually happens, but in some cases, landlords just use the letting agencies to find them a tenant, but they do all the actual managing themselves (I can't remember if this means they get the full rent and pay a one-off fee to the agency, or if they just get a higher percentage of the rent).

Anyway, this is only one case, so it may not be relevant. I will just have to see how trustworthy I deem the landlord.

Quiet you.

Myp and DavPaz are wrong. I'm 90% sure that Joans is right and "let only" means that the landlord has only contracted the agency to find the tenant, and that all ongoing maintenence etc will be carried out by him or his agents directly -- this was the case for one of the houses I rented in Cardiff.

You can always check with the agency, of course.

I'm not sure if this increases or decreases your chances of getting screwed. Your legal rights are the same in both cases, and unless the landlord is a shit, it's probably faster to go straight to him/her with problems than it is to go through a letting agency who will probably have to get his permission for stuff anyway. I don't think it's a reason to not rent that property.

Good advice that.
However, another option to save on the hassle is just make sure to not pay the final months rent when you move out, in order to recoup the deposit that they will otherwise almost certainly confiscate on some pretext or other.

You'd have room for 7 cats though wouldn't you Joans?

I've ALWAYS gone through an agency when renting. It's just easier and you're less likely for them to shaft you. Let's just say I never lost a deposit because I made Ange scrub the place spotless.

You could go private and JUST deal with the landlord, but finidn those type of places now is damn near impossible as letting agents have all the bits and bobs set up so it's less hassle for the owner of the property. The letting agent will be your only port of call, they won't let you speak to the owner-they'll pass stuff on...or wont, as the case sometimes is.

Basically treat the letting agent as if it is THEM that own it, because essentially they do for your agreement in a way

3 cats Kalmar hehe


EDIT: Also if it's like Dr.G said then why don't you ask to take a copy of the lease information and run it through with a solicitor for a free 30 minutes? It'll put your mind at ease

Shall I start again?

I am going through letting agencies. However, I have been told that one of the properties I am viewing is 'Let Only', so the landlord will be doing the viewing and everything else in this case.

Hilariously, I've just had a phonecall from the letting agency to find out where I am because the landlady (as it is in this case) is outside the flat. Unfortunately, I'm about 40 miles away as I'm supposed to be seeing it tomorrow, so there's my deposit gone straight away.

When you take the keys, before you move any furniture or other items in, take photos of the entire place - every nook and cranny. File them away, you don't know when you'll need them.

They'll give you an inventory of everything that's in the place. Check it religiously before you move stuff in. If anything is on the inventory but isn't in the flat, or vice versa, tell them. You don't want to be accused of theft when you leave.

Other than that, there's not much more to be worried about. Any maintenance etc. is carried out by the landlord and not you, so there's no running costs although he may (read: will) levy service charges and possibly ground rent charges etc. on your ass.

If there's anything in the rental agreement that you don't like (for example: "No pets") then query it and state reasons, it's quite possible that the landlord will be willing to make an exception.

Before you do anything to the property that modifies the structure (even something as simple as hammering picture hooks into the wall) be sure to ask the landlord.

Trouble with this is that when you move into a new place to rent you will have a black mark against you when you ask your old letting agent for a reference and not many people will touch you if you didn't pay (FFFF-bloody-NARR!)

I currently rent from a private landlord, and prefer this vastly to a letting agency.

Basically, it's cheaper and less hassle.

If anything minor needs doing, I do it. If it costs money, I ask for it and get it.

The house is old and would need substantial upgrading (complete rewiring etc) to be actually legal to rent, so what they charge me is probably half what it would be if everything was up to scratch.

Not actually true, I'm afraid.

Landlords pay letting agents to either (a) find a tenant for them or (b) find a tenant or them and then manage the property.

In (a), you'll speak to the letting agent, they'll show you the property, you'll sign a contract with the landlord and then you'll likely never speak to the letting agent again.

In (b), the start is the same as (a), but once you've signed the contract with the landlord, the letting agent will act as the landlord's agent in law running the property, and will be given the power by the landlrod to act on their behalf (in exchange for the agent getting cash monies from the landlord). The landlord will be liable for the property (as they're the landlord and your contract is with them) and will also be liable for the actions or inactions of their managing agent.

I'd be utterly gobsmacked if a letting agency were to sign a tenancy agreement as the landlord of a property they don't own. They *may* be given the power to sign on behalf of the landlord as their agent in law, but the contract will still then be with the landlord.

That's a BAD idea. Naughty Kalmar, back in your box.

All of this. Especially about the inventory. This is where they'll try and rape you for redecorating or replacing the kitchen.

Just to clarify, I won't be doing that at my current place. But previous flats have had properly dodgy bastards as landlords and you could see it coming a mile away.

Also if there are any problems, like the hot tap in the bath doesn't work (check ALL of this-even if they aren't checking it when they show you around) and watch them LOG IT as the fuckers sometimes won't-this may be because all the letting agents around here are fucking cunts, but please do this as it's too late when they say 'that wasn't broken when you got there-you need to contribute,' because they will not fix 'everything' for you. If you've broken something you will need to help pay-and make sure to take out the insurance thing they offer!!

But usually when you deal directly with the landlord things get cheaper. I made some visits to properties i saw the ad in the newspaper without any photos or anything. Most of them were shit, except for the flat i'm living now which is lovely, cheap and incredibly located. I would certainly pay more 100€/month if it was on Remax or something.

Well, this should all but go without saying. Whether the letting agent is merely finding a tenant or managing the property as well, the landlord has to pay the letting agent for their services, and that money isn't going to come straight out of the landlord's pocket.

I'm desperate to find just the landlord and no letting agent! I prefer things that way, but there is fuck all here

GOOD LUCK DR.JOANS! And post pics please, I also want an invite fully extended to me and KKGU so we can come and get drunk with you and play combined frogger

(edit: apart from the legal stuff that Mr Chris mentioned) However, it can pay to be friendly with the actual owner as well, not least because if they ever want to sell (and you want to buy), you might be able to get a very good deal on a private sale of a property that you already live in. Obviously this only applies to a minority of cases.

Buy a house, they are dead cheap now.

CHECK THE SHOWER WORKS AND THAT YOU GET HOT WATER FROM IT AND THAT IT IS SATISFACTORY TO WAKE YOU UP FROM A HUNGOVER MORNING.

Other than that, some good advice here. I personally prefer letting agents (cf direct landlord), as there is nearly always someone there and they are local, and generally helpful.

Remember that general wear and tear cannot be taken from a deposit when moving out.

Make sure windows open/lock properly. Check security issues like easy access from a dodgy back window from a dark alley.

Other stuff, find out why previous tenants are leaving, what are upstairs neighbours like, do the downstairs neighbours smoke like chimneys meaning you can't open your window in the summer. Will your TV fit in the lounge?

No, not not so much.

The contract will always be with the landlord. The letting agent may be employed as the landlord's agent to run the property and deal with shit that the landlord can't be arsed with, but it's still a tenancy agreement between the tenant and the landlord.

/lawyer

Fuck it, I'm going to shoot myself:

Yep, you're right. I was getting confused with the fact that I've never even met any of my landlords. Their signature will have been on the contracts and are liable for any issues, but the agency will always be your first port of call for questions and will organise workmen to come out to fix stuff.

Indeed, if they're employed as managing agents. If they're not, they'll tell you to fuck off (I have had this happen when I wasn't sure if they were managing the property or not)

I've only rented through agencies who have also been the managing agents. I didn't even realise they did let-only until Joans brought it up.

We never got an inventory despite requests.

I've never rented through a letting agent who managed the property. Could be a london thing?

i mentioned it because usually finding properties without agencies demands more effort, as they usually go into newspaper ads with not much information and most are old houses anyway, they don't have the pretty websites of agencies filled with photos of the properties.

I also advise against renting something already equipped with furniture and electronic equipment. In my case, it usually translated to upping the price in around 15%, with the equipment being rubbish anyway. Better buy your own stuff (unless you plan a short stay of course).

Out of curiosity, what's the average price for a 2 bedroom+ 1 living room (do you use the T2 typology there?) flat in the center of a big city in england (excluding london)?

By law you have to have one don't you? Bloody letting agents *froths*

In addition to all the 'check this and that' suggestions, find out where the fuse box/circuit breakers are, as I wrenched an enormous fuse out of the main box downstairs when it turned out the breakers had just flipped and were in one of the kitchen cupboards (ie: hidden)

Also, find out if there's a switch for the power shower and which one it is, as I endured cold water for a week before realizing the huge, dangerous looking switch actually turned on the boiler. If there's a garden, find out about access and who's responsible for maintaining it. Ask about having stuff like Sky and internet put in. If there's only parking on the street, ask about resident permits.

Make sure there's no damp or rat feces or anything.

Oh indeed, it's much more of a fag to do. We did it that way when we were looking at university. It was annoying to have to trek around 20 odd shitty properties that we could have discounted had there been agents and photos... I guess you're paying a premium for life being a bit easier if you use an agent.

Probably I'm choosing to believe the inventory is "nothing".

Which is good, because I've broken the bed.... and not even in a sense.

*Guffaws*

Were you jumping on it eating pringles? That's how ours is going to go

*Scrubs brain*

I thought it was going to be something shark-related?

I forgot what noise he had to make *has tears*

Ooooh....tummy hurts bad

I know, I messed up, which is why I edited it to reflect this straight after posting.

Can you scrub mine too?

Gah, stop all (myp, davpaz, Nik, Shin) shouting about managed properties.

"Let only" means the landlord pays the letting agent a fee to find and contract a tenant* - after that, the only point of contact is the landlord, whose name, address and phone number are in the contract (although the agency will, if they're not cunts, try and help).

Especially stop shouting about how to deal with thieving landlords witholding the deposit - the law has changed and the deposit has to be placed into a government bonded account, and it's biased in favour of the tenant for getting it back - the landlord moaning about tiny marks on walls or slightly worn carpets doesn't wash, as there's an expectation that wear and tear will happen. All that will be, as someone said, based on the initial inventory mind, so it's imperative to make sure that's spot-on. Photos will always be arguable for anything but the most enormous marks/holes. The theory goes that if the landlord is clearly being a dick, they're overruled and you get your money back anyway.

* Generalised list based on the let-only flats I've rented recently: agreed agency contract, inventory, credit/reference checks, key handover, collecting deposit and first rent, setting up standing order. That sort of thing.

Oh, watch out for..actually, fuck it, land law isn't until April.

Ah, useful facts! I didn't know that.
Who manages the arbitration and account thingy then? Council?

Tut, I was trying to edit that but the forum went all fuckity, then I had to reboot to shut Windows the fuck up (ALRIGHT COMPLETE YOUR FUCKING UPDATES THEN CUNT) and now I can't remember what I was going to do.

Er, dunno - I'd mostly stopped listening to the agent by that point. I think it's along the lines of there being some sort of dispute arbitration thing, and as such they're liable to tell the landlord to get-bent-it's-not-worth-our-hassle-over-50-quid, or something.

What I took away from it though is that our landlord has at no point had our deposit in his possession to make away with.