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 Post subject: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 14:15 
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The financial apocalyse continues apace; I missed this story when it broke on Friday. The BBC writes:


Quote:
Two major European banks said they have exposure worth billions of dollars to a US broker accused of a $50bn (£33bn) Wall Street fraud scheme.

Spain's largest bank, Santander, which also owns three UK banks, said one of its funds had $3.1bn invested in the firm run by Bernard Madoff.

France's BNP Paribas estimated its exposure to be more than $460m.

Mr Madoff has been charged with fraud, in what is being described as one of the biggest-ever such cases.

Correspondents say the case is likely to fuel uncertainty about the entire hedge fund industry.

'Systemic failures'

Mr Madoff is alleged to have used money from new investors to pay off existing investors in the fund.

Investors are assessing their exposure to the alleged fraud Mr Madoff is said by prosecutors to have confessed to.

US Prosecutors say Mr Madoff, a former head of the Nasdaq stock market, masterminded a fraud of massive proportions through his hedge fund and investment advisory business.

A federal judge has appointed a receiver to oversee Mr Madoff's firm's assets and customer accounts, while the 70-year-old banker has been released on $10m bail.

"While BNP Paribas has no investment of its own in the hedge funds managed by Bernard Madoff Investment Services, it does have risk exposure to these funds through its trading business and collateralised lending to funds of hedge funds," BNP said in a statement.

Santander said its exposure to Madoff was through its investment fund Optimal.

Santander also owns the UK High Street banks Abbey, Alliance & Leicester and Bradford & Bingley.

UK-based asset management firm Bramdean Alternatives accused US regulators of "systemic failures".

The firm saw its share value drop by over 35% after it revealed that about £21m - nearly 10% of its holding - was exposed to the New York broker.

"It is astonishing that this apparent fraud seems to have been continuing for so long, possibly for decades, while investors have continued to invest more money into the Madoff funds in good faith," the firm said.

"The allegations made appear to point to a systemic failure of the regulatory and securities markets regime in the US."

High returns promised

Mr Madoff founded Bernard L Madoff Investment Securities in 1960, but also ran a separate hedge fund business.

Investors have withdrawn from hedge funds amid market volatility.

According to the US Attorney's criminal complaint filed in court, Mr Madoff told at least three employees on Wednesday that the hedge fund business - which served up to 25 clients and had $17.1bn under management - was a fraud and had been insolvent for years, losing at least $50bn.

He said he was "finished", that he had "absolutely nothing" and that "it's all just one big lie", and that it was "basically, a giant Ponzi scheme", the complaint said.

He told them that he planned to surrender to the authorities but not before he used his last $200m-$300m to pay "selected employees, family and friends".

Under a Ponzi scheme, which is similar to pyramid schemes, investors are promised very high returns on their investment, while in reality early investors are paid with money collected from later investors.

If found guilty, US prosecutors say he could face up to 20 years in prison and a fine of up to $5m.


$50bn! Years! Good god.


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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 14:20 
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I can't remember who posted that link to a big article about how Wall Street basically doesn't have a clue what it's doing and that everyone who works there is simultaneously racing about trying to rip everyone else off, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if more things appear like this in the coming year. Deregulation of the financial markets has been a disaster, because nobody knows what the fuck's going on, not even the fraudsters really. It really is one amazing mess.

But still, $50 billion?! Jesus Christ. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 14:22 
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Hopefully we'll see some fairy dust merchants trying base jumping sans parachute sometime soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 14:25 
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Beeb:

Quote:
Among the banks which have been affected are Britain's RBS, Spain's Santander and France's BNP Paribas.


Ahh, balls. That's my bank.

AGAIN.

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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 14:31 
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And Santander is mine, now they own A&L. >:(


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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 14:34 
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They own Abbey, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 14:36 
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SavyGamer

Joined: 29th Apr, 2008
Posts: 7600
So that's where all the money has gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 14:36 
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At least it gives us moral superiority in bank meets.

Mr/Mrs Banker: "So, Mr Evans. Can you explain why you're still four hundred pounds overdrawn?"

Me: "I don't know. I guess I just have a habit of losing money. There seems to be a lot of it around nowadays. *AHEM*." (Holds aloft newspaper with red highlighter pen marking out fraud, RBS being suckers, etc.) "I would also remind you that it is modest, regular, solid and safe loan repayments like mine that are keeping you afloat."

Mr/Mrs Banker: *Blushes* "Um, some free sweets?"

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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 14:52 
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I'm sorry, hasn't Gordon Brown already saved the world?


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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 15:01 
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marktheheraldangels wrote:
And Santander is mine, now they own A&L. >:(

myoptinsel wrote:
They own Abbey, too.


My personal account is with A & L.

The business account? Abbey.


Still, this guy get a $5m fine. Chump change. Us poor working stiffs get it in the neck instead.

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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 21:07 
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Hmmm, house built on sand, anyone? Personally, I'd be all for rounding up all the bastards who got paid millions in bonuses over the last five years and looking very hard at whether the paperwork they put through stacks up to the solid gold it promised - if not, money back please.

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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 21:55 
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Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
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I keep on reading the bank name "Santander" as "Salamander" for some reason. Anyone else?


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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 22:11 
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I almost laughed today when I heard on the radio that the man responsible's surname is Madoff pronounced "Made Off"

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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:37 
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DBCracker wrote:
Hmmm, house built on sand, anyone? Personally, I'd be all for rounding up all the bastards who got paid millions in bonuses over the last five years and looking very hard at whether the paperwork they put through stacks up to the solid gold it promised - if not, money back please.


I'm in favour of city bonuses, though.

They earn it. If, given a phone and a PC, could you turn 100k into a million over a year? If I was their employer, I'd be most pleased with that. And reward appropriately.

That is why they earn their money.

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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:11 
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Is it real money though or just manipulating a spreadsheet?

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 Post subject: Re: Banker arrested in $50bn con
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:03 
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Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
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Plitzen wrote:
Is it real money though or just manipulating a spreadsheet?


Ay, there's the rub! As Hamlet would say. Most of these banks were generating profits in the last few years before they realised that their AAA rated bonds and fancy assets were worthless. If you can turn 100k into a million, and that million still be worth a million in a few years time then you more than deserve a bonus. If that million wasn't really even worth the 100k to begin with, but no one noticed until it plunged the bank into the red, then that's a different matter.


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