Be Excellent To Each Other

Ok legal eagles, your opinions wanted:

Back in mid-July I posted an item by Recorded Delivery. The person who was meant to receive it claimed it hadn't arrived. However the track and trace service stated it had been delivered but no signature was available. Clearly, someone was mistaken.

Phoning Royal Mail up isn't a pleasant experience and they were insistent that the item had been delivered. They were unable to explain why despite this they were unable to supply a copy of the signature and how, without this evidence, they knew it had been delivered. After repeated calls one operator informed me that the item seemed to have been signed for by an officer at the sorting office.

Seeming as the item had indeed been undelivered I filled in a P58 claim form. I attached a copy of the recorded delivery slip as proof of posting and enclosed a copy of the original invoice. According to the form if I can prove the value of the items I can receive compensation up to £36 which happened to be almost the exact value of the items. In August I received a letter confirming that the item had been delivered but no signature was available. A book of stamps was enclosed.

By this point the person receiving the item had lost patience with the seemingly non-arrival of said package and initiated a chargeback for the items they had purchased.

I wrote to the PO again quoting their own terms and conditions:

“For lost or damaged items with proof of posting and evidence of value (such as an invoice or receipt) customers will be entitled to a postage refund plus compensation up to the value of the item, with a maximum of £36.”

I asked them how they can be sure that the item has been delivered when the reciptant is denying receipt and they have no prove of delivery. There was no response. I telephoned them again and they denied receipt of the letter - until I explained that it had been sent by Recorded Delivery and signed for by one of their employees, whereupon they sudden foudn evidence of receiving the letter and ensured me that I would receive a phone call later that day.

I didn't.

This was the final paragraph of the last letter I sent:

"Despite completing a P58 form, enclosing an invoice and making several phonecalls to your Customer Service centre I have received neither a refund for the lost items or the signature that I have paid for. I therefore require one of two responses from you; either supply the signature obtained upon delivery or pay compensation for the lost items. If the signature obtained at the time of delivery is provided I shall pursue the customer’s fraud via the Small Claims Court in an attempt to recover the cost of the goods. However if you are unable to supply a signature I shall take yourselves to the Small Claims Court in order to recover the value of my goods. I will also, for what it is worth, file a complaint with the Postal Review Panel."


Can anyone suggest a good reason why I shouldn't file a small claims court claim against Royal Mail for the value of the items?

Burning the main offices down is more fun.

I can think of no reason. Do it. Also have a search for anyone else that's tried it. I wonder how much RM lose from civil actions like that. I bet you could find out via freedom of information.

I once filled in a compensation claim for a lost t-shirt sent non-recorded, however with a certificate of postage I'm still entitled to the £36, which I had. I sent off this certificate along with the form, recorded, incidentally, and then never heard anything. Given the extremely minimal cost of the shirt I didn't bother to chase it up, but someone certainly needs to break their balls for the shoddy service.

So to summarise, do it, and additionally claim £50 for the time spent having to sort it out, as you'd probably win that too.

It's an £80 fee or something, and I'm not 100% sure that you can reclaim it if you win. I'd check that first before bothering. Otherwise - yes, do.

If they ignore the court summons (as seems likely given the history) you get an automatic default judgment in your favour. If they do turn up (and it'll cost them money to do so), it sounds from the facts that you've provided that they haven't got a leg to stand on.

They know where you live?

You get the money back if you win as they have to pay it as costs.

Ah, cool. I just recalled someone telling me that you don't get legal costs back in the small claims court, and other costs are strictly limited. I know my dad didn't get his travel costs when he successfully defended a sale dispute against him in a court 150 miles away.

As long as you get the court fees back that should be all the expenses you'd have, in this case.

I think that just refers to hiring solicitors, paid-for legal advice, etc. You should get back out-of-pocket expenses like the court fees.



My friend unsuccessfully sued when he bought a house, and found the living-room carpet (which had been used as a selling point) had been fitted AROUND a free-standing unit, leaving it useless when the previous occupier moved out with his furniture. He failed as he couldn't demonstrate this behaviour went against the contract he had with the seller, but his opponent wasn't granted costs for having to take a day off work. The judge felt compensation "wasn't appropriate in this case", presumably because he felt the git had brought it on himself, and was morally - if not legally - in the wrong. It's difficult to see how costs would not be granted to someone who could prove beyond question that the Post Office had failed to do its job.

Incidentally, not getting signatures seems endemic in some places - I guess it depends on the postman. My partner submitted OU assignments by Recorded Delivery, and on chasing them up, found they weren't signed for and got stamps as compensation for the 'lost' item, only to find it was actually with her tutor. Annoying...

Yeah, that's what I meant by "legal costs", sorry ...





My father was entirely in the right, though, so it does seem a bit arbitrary.

My sympathies, Craig. Mind you, a RM employee demolished our letterbox this morning while trying to shove a huge package through it (which got stuck, natch).

It is £30 to file the claim, so I'll take the risk I think. I'll give them until Thursday and then file it.

I wouldn't bet on it...

Keep us informed Craig. Good luck.

BEWARE THE WOOLFE REFORMS!

<giggles to self>


Actually, it should be pretty cut and dried. Although, I would say that over 36 quid is a trifling matter, but, hey ho.

Heh.

I think the letter constituted an offer to engage in ADR first, though.

<grins>

Currently, I'm trying to give a shit about the working time directive in UK v Council of the European Union (C-84/94)...

That sounds like employment law. We have spoddy book worms who don't know what a suit is to do that shit for us.

I hate you with a passion..

Nah, it's not too bad, but it's 2045, and I should have done it earlier but the (dog ate my homework - Ed), but I can pick it up tomorrow. I don't think it's going to be more than an ours worth of work, and it's easier with paper copies of this sort of thing than alt tabbing back and forth.

You do future law?! Laser cucumbers a-go-go!

I never, ever read stuff on screen. It's painful and just wrong.

Solicitors' offices should look like Scrooge's office in Muppet's Christmas Carol.