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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:38 
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SavyGamer

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That's known BS.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:45 
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Boo.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 17:27 
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LewieP wrote:
That's known BS.

Sure? It's had a C&D takedown from lawyers. Unusual for that to happen to made up stuff, becuase that would mean the C&D itself is illegal.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 17:33 
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Was that part of the PowerPoint presentation that leaked? I was under the impression that it was entirely legit, but was over a year old. It referenced certain things that pinpointed its date of creation at before E3 2011 (i.e. before WiiU was revealed). I'm sure things have been changed since then, but it's still legit.

And now with the cease and desist it's basically confirmed.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 17:34 
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yes. 2010 vintage.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 17:36 
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I found it particularly interesting that the architecture diagram had an entirely new CPU core, with a dupe of the old 360's core for backwards compatibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 17:43 
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Skillmeister

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Yesterday's coverage was on their expected competition. They considered OnLive as a viable acquisition target, and Sony to be a GoogleTV platform.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 17:51 
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http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesys ... 720doc.pdf

Still viewable there. It's certainly interesting. $299 launch price with new Kinect. 2013. 2014 they're going to give us AR specs, 2015 they're going to give us cloud gaming. "Never have to buy new hardware again."


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 18:04 
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Hello Hello Hello

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Looks like a pretty cheap-ass piece of kit overall.

I also note they're planning very clearly to get anything and everything out in 'the cloud' where they have total control over availability and pricing and you basically get to 'own' nothing.

The XBox720 looks like a games/movies/whatever rental device, basically.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 18:06 
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Yeah, apart from the cheap-ass bit of kit part... :shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 20:10 
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WTB wrote:
Yeah, apart from the cheap-ass bit of kit part... :shrug:


Well it's not exactly going to set the world on fire, is it?

There's a reason they're intending to knock the things out at $299!


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 20:30 
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We don't know anything solid on the specs. That doc is two years old. Nothing stopping them selling at a loss. Stick to your PC though! They're better. I'm keen to avoid an argument about power, which you're inevitably going to try to start!


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 20:45 
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WTB wrote:
Stick to your PC though!


I'll use whichever system gives me the games I want to play to the standard I want to play them at :)

My 360 got a bit of a late revival thanks to Trials Evolution and Pinball Arcade, for example. I'm not in any way anti-console, and if anything I appreciate the 'turn it on and just play' ease of use they bring to the gaming table. I only start to fall out with them when they're asked to run stuff that they clearly can't handle properly (BF3 being the most stand-out example).

What I would say here is that it's a pretty good bet that the XBox720 isn't really going to offer a major change from what the 360 can do in terms of graphics.

1080p/60FPS with a moderate boost to the overall look of the games will be about its lot I should think.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 20:53 
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As my TV is 1080p -- and likely to stay that way for a long time -- and as my eye can't see anything better than 1080p or 60Hz anyway, that'd be fine by me.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 20:57 
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Bad Girl

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You couldn't resist, could you?

I'll like the idea of Cloud gaming when NASA loans its supercompooters and we're all playing a digitised Danny Devito as Mario through laser beams streamed through our arsehole.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 20:59 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
As my TV is 1080p -- and likely to stay that way for a long time -- and as my eye can't see anything better than 1080p or 60Hz anyway, that'd be fine by me.


Oh absolutely, the XBox720 will basically do what the 360/PS3 have never been able to accomplish, what I'd call 'true HD gaming'. (1080/60)

I'll almost certainly get one myself, as my preferred way to play games is sat on the comfy sofa with a gamepad in front of the big telly with glorious 5:1 sound.

When I first got a 360 my PC was effectively demoted to a web browser and email client, it was only when the 360 started visibly creaking at the seams that I went back to the PC for games, and even now I'll default back to the 360 for games that run properly on the platform.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 22:13 
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And once we're all using Gaikai/OnLive, it won't matter diddly anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 22:22 
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Craster wrote:
And once we're all using Gaikai/OnLive, it won't matter diddly anyway.


Not going to happen dude.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 22:35 
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Sony and Microsoft clearly think it will.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 22:45 
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Craster wrote:
Sony and Microsoft clearly think it will.


At some point, perhaps.

By 2015? No chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 22:46 
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Craster wrote:
Sony and Microsoft clearly think it will.


No, Sony and Microsoft clearly think there's a market for some stuff to be delivered that way; that's not the same thing as them thinking that everyone's going to switch over to that delivery method any time soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 22:54 
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Bamba wrote:
Craster wrote:
Sony and Microsoft clearly think it will.


No, Sony and Microsoft clearly think there's a market for some stuff to be delivered that way; that's not the same thing as them thinking that everyone's going to switch over to that delivery method any time soon.


The quote was "Never have to buy new hardware again". That suggests they're anticipating the upcoming XBox being the last Xbox.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 23:24 
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Craster wrote:
The quote was "Never have to buy new hardware again". That suggests they're anticipating the upcoming XBox being the last Xbox.


Everyone using their PCs for gaming by 2015, you heard it here first!


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 23:34 
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"Cheap" makes me happy. TV resolutions I'm none too worried about as I'm behind the curve anyway. Cheap is good.

Next year, if a $299 console in my living room chucks out stuff that a $1,200 dollar PC does now but into TV, I'll spend the difference on a bigger TV.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 23:38 
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I must say, I don't think I'd ever be happy with the cloud gaming concept. I don't care how lag-free they eventually make it, I want my games running on the hardware under my telly! Really not comfortable at all with the OnLive malarky.

But time will tell I guess. Are people willing to give up a little more freedom and control to save a few hundred quid every few years on new hardware?


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 23:41 
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Gogmagog

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If I can "push button, get bacon", I'm fine with it. If I can't then take console on to a canal boat with no connection, there might be issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 23:44 
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Gogmagog

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Unless, they can store everything compressed on a drive. Then, when you want to play a game, that you downloaded, you type in "up, up, down, down, etc" and it then it decompresses the game and can play it. So you could have a thingumabob with them all on it. Or something. I'm ideas, you do the details.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 23:45 
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I'm worried and excited! Stupid space age.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 0:47 
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I'm somewhat worried about what it might do to game development. But speculation n that is currently not entirely worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:43 
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http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/w ... next-xbox/

Multiple versions of the xbox..


Quote:
Microsoft's patent for a "Scalable Multimedia Computer System Architecture With QOS [Quality Of Service] Guarantees" describes a design for a game system that is capable of "allowing platform services to scale over time." Those "platform services" include pretty much everything the hardware does besides directly running games—everything from maintaining the basic operating system, handling network traffic, and interpreting inputs to potentially streaming content to nearby tablets or recording TV shows.

A standard console configuration might explicitly devote one entire CPU/GPU combo to handling those basic platform functions, while other processors are dedicated to the game-playing "application" functions. But Microsoft's patent describes a new "communication fabric" framework that would let the system allocate computing resources more flexibly between platform and application tasks concurrently, while also ensuring that the game-playing portion doesn't dip below a certain quality threshold. So the operating system would be able to use as much processing power as it wants, as long as it doesn't interfere with the performance of a game that's running at the same time.

That's important, because it would also let Microsoft design multiple hardware configurations of the same basic game system, all of which run the same games, but some of which allow for additional "platform" features that use the extra hardware power. The patent even hints at this kind of configuration diversity. While "lower cost embodiments" of the system might be forced to share a single GPU between the platform and application systems (theoretically limiting the power of the platform aspects), the patent suggests that subsequent versions of the hardware could provide "more platform services... due to hardware improvements." In other words, as computing standards increase, newer versions of the system would be equipped to provide additional functions, while still running games designed for earlier versions of the hardware.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:45 
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Interesting. A PC, then.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:46 
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WTB wrote:
Interesting. A PC, then.

The last two Xboxes have also been PCs.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:58 
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But this is upgradeable, dick.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:02 
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This is going to cause confusion further down the line...

"How do I know if I can play this game?"
"Well, you need to have at least a mark IV Xbox 720."
"How do I know if I've got one of those?"
"If your console is silver with with square bits on the front or is beige but game with pink controllers then you're probably alright. There was a special version of the mark II though that was silver with pink controllers and rectangular bits on the front though so if you've got that then you're fucked."
"Well, that's nice and clear."

I exaggerate obviously, but one of the selling points of a console over a PC is the 'buy any game and it'll just work' nature of the ecosystem. Having a scalable platform would have it's own benefits obviously but your man-in-the-street might not give a fuck about all that when he's in a shop just trying to work out whether he can even play Manshooter XIV or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:06 
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Bamba wrote:
I exaggerate obviously, but one of the selling points of a console over a PC is the 'buy any game and it'll just work' nature of the ecosystem. Having a scalable platform would have it's own benefits obviously but MaliA might not give a fuck about all that when he's in a shop just trying to work out whether he can even play Manshooter XIV or not.


FeeX.

All of these details so far make me wary of getting one. If it requires an always on internet, it won't work on my boat, and if there are several versions, then it's pointless getting one on day one as it'll be superceded by others 12 months later and I'll end up being cunted like I ma on the PC as I won't spend £1k a year buying stuff to play the latest games. I'll have to get some friends and play board games in a cottage one weekend a year or something

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:08 
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It's a new 3DO?

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:18 
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The would have to leave the gaming part un-upgradable. So that all games run on all NGxbox.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:19 
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Bamba wrote:
This is going to cause confusion further down the line...

"How do I know if I can play this game?"
"Well, you need to have at least a mark IV Xbox 720."
"How do I know if I've got one of those?"
"If your console is silver with with square bits on the front or is beige but game with pink controllers then you're probably alright. There was a special version of the mark II though that was silver with pink controllers and rectangular bits on the front though so if you've got that then you're fucked."
"Well, that's nice and clear."

I exaggerate obviously, but one of the selling points of a console over a PC is the 'buy any game and it'll just work' nature of the ecosystem. Having a scalable platform would have it's own benefits obviously but your man-in-the-street might not give a fuck about all that when he's in a shop just trying to work out whether he can even play Manshooter XIV or not.


I read that article differently. I understood it to say that Manshooter XIV will run on every XBox 720, but depending on what hardware version you've got, the device might be able to, for example, download other games in the background (unlike the 360, which stops downloads if you're running a game). So the games experience would be consistent, but the 'ancillary OS tasks' that can run at the same time might vary.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:37 
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I hope there will be interchangeable faceplates.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:38 
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Craster wrote:
I actually read that article.
FeeX.

Seriously, which part of
Quote:
multiple hardware configurations of the same basic game system, all of which run the same games, but some of which allow for additional "platform" features
are people having trouble understanding?


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:41 
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I'm not reading an article!


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:44 
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Craster wrote:
unlike the 360, which stops downloads if you're running a game

Incorrect. It stops downloads if you're playing online - if you're in single player it'll continue to download in the background.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:45 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Seriously, which part of
Quote:
multiple hardware configurations of the same basic game system, all of which run the same games, but some of which allow for additional "platform" features
are people having trouble understanding?


Multiple hardware configurations: Do I have A,B and C, or A,C and D? Which one have I bought? Do all games un the same? Ambiguity on "platform features". Does this mean better graphics, sounds, bigger levels in the games it runs?

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:46 
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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:49 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Craster wrote:
unlike the 360, which stops downloads if you're running a game

Incorrect. It stops downloads if you're playing online - if you're in single player it'll continue to download in the background.


The game decides that. Plenty of SP games stop the downloads.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:49 
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Anyway, I couldn't think of a better example.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:50 
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Craster wrote:
I read that article differently. I understood it to say that Manshooter XIV will run on every XBox 720, but depending on what hardware version you've got, the device might be able to, for example, download other games in the background (unlike the 360, which stops downloads if you're running a game). So the games experience would be consistent, but the 'ancillary OS tasks' that can run at the same time might vary.


I got the part that said the newer hardware iterations would provide extra non-game related capabilities, but the sentence "while still running games designed for earlier versions of the hardware" I took to mean backwards compatibility with old games; and that newer games, requiring some of the new hardware, would also be created. It might just be the way I've read that last sentence though.

ETA: Indeed, on reading the whole thing again, it's stated more clearly in earlier paragraphs that all hardware iterations would be capable of playing the games so I withdraw my objections entirely. There might still be confusion for consumers about what you need to buy to get each non-gaming 'function' but the gaming part will remain straightforward by the sounds of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:51 
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MaliA wrote:
Multiple hardware configurations: Do I have A,B and C, or A,C and D? Which one have I bought? Do all games un the same? Ambiguity on "platform features". Does this mean better graphics, sounds, bigger levels in the games it runs?


The article was all about the idea of separating the games from the platform features. So the games experience is consistent, the platform features are not. Platform features are not the games. Platform features probably extends to certain things that run on top of games, eg parties and voice chat.

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:53 
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MaliA wrote:
Bamba wrote:
I exaggerate obviously, but one of the selling points of a console over a PC is the 'buy any game and it'll just work' nature of the ecosystem. Having a scalable platform would have it's own benefits obviously but MaliA might not give a fuck about all that when he's in a shop just trying to work out whether he can even play Manshooter XIV or not.


FeeX.

All of these details so far make me wary of getting one. If it requires an always on internet, it won't work on my boat, and if there are several versions, then it's pointless getting one on day one as it'll be superceded by others 12 months later and I'll end up being cunted like I ma on the PC as I won't spend £1k a year buying stuff to play the latest games. I'll have to get some friends and play board games in a cottage one weekend a year or something


If we don't buy new consoles then maybe we can spend TWO weekends in a cottage playing board games!

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 Post subject: Re: Next Generation (TM) - speculation, hype and whinging thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 13:53 
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Craster wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Multiple hardware configurations: Do I have A,B and C, or A,C and D? Which one have I bought? Do all games un the same? Ambiguity on "platform features". Does this mean better graphics, sounds, bigger levels in the games it runs?


The article was all about the idea of separating the games from the platform features. So the games experience is consistent, the platform features are not. Platform features are not the games. Platform features probably extends to certain things that run on top of games, eg parties and voice chat.


I think the bit Doc quoted explains that best:

Quote:
multiple hardware configurations of the same basic game system, all of which run the same games, but some of which allow for additional "platform" features

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GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


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