The 'NAY!' Thread

Jem · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 15:31

MaliA wrote:

Jem wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Of course, there are actual scientific reasons, too: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... onalities/

Didn't see anything in there about domestic violence? Nor indeed that women are only attracted to men who hit women?

I think the discussion has mived on to whether "bad boys get chicks" now, rather than domestic violence.

Mr Dave wrote:

And because behaving like a violent twat will get you an entire queue of women.

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 15:33

I'd say that's pretty bad.

But we're talking about Hybristophilia, right? And that's a thing.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 15:36

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

And because behaving like a violent twat will get you an entire queue of women.

Err, no. The 'bad boys gets the women' trope is fallacious. It was invented by men who think they're 'nice guys', but who are actually stalkerish creeps.

Except not really.

May fit with how you view the world. But yeah. No.

Evidence? Because you're talking out of your arse, I'm afraid.

Yeah, I don't think me talking about things I've seen in the past are really going to help convnce you, as it's an ideological block for you.

But basically what you're trying to do is to try and convince me there's no such colour as blue, because you've never seen blue or because the people you surround yourself with have pursuaded you that blue doesn't exist.

It happens. There's solid reasons for it to happen from an evolutionary biology point of view. But strangely, we're often meant to ignore the millenia of evolution that have lead to how our brains work because it's uncomfortable.

Utter nonsense, Dave, and very insulting. Just because you may have experienced seeing someone who has been in abusive relationship and not leave it doesn't mean that they 'prefer' men who are abusive - anecdotes are not data, after all - it is a lot more complicated than that.

In any case, the alpha/beta pack myth has been utterly debunked, and in any case humans didn't evolve like that. Males tended to stay with one family until they were grown up and then move on to another female to propagate again. Alpha males was a theory created by Rudolph Schenkel and David Mech and Mech has now debunked it himself. He's even asked the publisher to stop selling his book, but they refuse.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Grim... wrote:

I'd say that's pretty bad.

But we're talking about Hybristophilia, right? And that's a thing.

What, people who like SAP products?

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32621

MrChris wrote:

What, people who like SAP products?

We'll do the tech jokes, thanks. Stay in your lane, lawyer boy.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 15:43

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

And because behaving like a violent twat will get you an entire queue of women.

Err, no. The 'bad boys gets the women' trope is fallacious. It was invented by men who think they're 'nice guys', but who are actually stalkerish creeps.

Except not really.

May fit with how you view the world. But yeah. No.

Evidence? Because you're talking out of your arse, I'm afraid.

Yeah, I don't think me talking about things I've seen in the past are really going to help convnce you, as it's an ideological block for you.

But basically what you're trying to do is to try and convince me there's no such colour as blue, because you've never seen blue or because the people you surround yourself with have pursuaded you that blue doesn't exist.

It happens. There's solid reasons for it to happen from an evolutionary biology point of view. But strangely, we're often meant to ignore the millenia of evolution that have lead to how our brains work because it's uncomfortable.

Utter nonsense, Dave, and very insulting. Just because you may have experienced seeing someone who has been in abusive relationship and not leave it doesn't mean that they 'prefer' men who are abusive - anecdotes are not data, after all - it is a lot more complicated than that.

Quote:

Numerous studies indicate that victims who contact the police
during a domestic dispute or briefly leave an abusive relationship are often at high risk
for eventually returning to that relationship and experiencing continued abuse (Brookoff,
O'Brien, Cook, Thompson, & Williams, 1997; Herbert, Silver, & Ellard, 1991; Martin et
al., 2000; Snyder & Scheer, 1981). Despite the fact that so many victims return to their
partners and continue to be physically assaulted, victims may be unaware of their
potential for returning to the abusive relationship and the risks involved in remaining in
that relationship (Herbert et al., 1991; Martin et al., 2000). Although some evidence
suggests that victims will permanently leave an abusive relationship within two years
after the initiation of violence (Gortner, Berns, Jacobson, & Gottman, 1997), additional
findings indicate that the victim may repeatedly leave and return to the batterer before
eventually ending the relationship (Schutte, Malouff, & Doyle, 1988).

From UNDERSTANDING STAY/LEAVE DECISIONS IN VIOLENT
RELATIONSHIPS: A BEHAVIOR ANALYTIC APPROACH
Kathryn M. Bell and Amy E. Naugle

In Behavior and Social Issues, 14, 21-45 (2005)

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

MrChris wrote:

What, people who like SAP products?

We'll do the tech jokes, thanks. Stay in your lane, lawyer boy.

You're just a seething ball of jealousy and resentment.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32621

MrChris wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

MrChris wrote:

What, people who like SAP products?

We'll do the tech jokes, thanks. Stay in your lane, lawyer boy.

You're just a seething ball of jealousy and resentment.

If only I could afford a £70k Porsche. Then I could find peace at last.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

MrChris wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

MrChris wrote:

What, people who like SAP products?

We'll do the tech jokes, thanks. Stay in your lane, lawyer boy.

You're just a seething ball of jealousy and resentment.

If only I could afford a £70k Porsche. Then I could find peace at last.

It even has flippy headlights! No one would ever know it only cost 2.5k.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32621

THOSE SEATCOVERS

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

THOSE SEATCOVERS

INORITE? I'm tempted myself.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 15:49

MaliA wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

And because behaving like a violent twat will get you an entire queue of women.

Err, no. The 'bad boys gets the women' trope is fallacious. It was invented by men who think they're 'nice guys', but who are actually stalkerish creeps.

Except not really.

May fit with how you view the world. But yeah. No.

Evidence? Because you're talking out of your arse, I'm afraid.

Yeah, I don't think me talking about things I've seen in the past are really going to help convnce you, as it's an ideological block for you.

But basically what you're trying to do is to try and convince me there's no such colour as blue, because you've never seen blue or because the people you surround yourself with have pursuaded you that blue doesn't exist.

It happens. There's solid reasons for it to happen from an evolutionary biology point of view. But strangely, we're often meant to ignore the millenia of evolution that have lead to how our brains work because it's uncomfortable.

Utter nonsense, Dave, and very insulting. Just because you may have experienced seeing someone who has been in abusive relationship and not leave it doesn't mean that they 'prefer' men who are abusive - anecdotes are not data, after all - it is a lot more complicated than that.

Quote:

Numerous studies indicate that victims who contact the police
during a domestic dispute or briefly leave an abusive relationship are often at high risk
for eventually returning to that relationship and experiencing continued abuse (Brookoff,
O'Brien, Cook, Thompson, & Williams, 1997; Herbert, Silver, & Ellard, 1991; Martin et
al., 2000; Snyder & Scheer, 1981). Despite the fact that so many victims return to their
partners and continue to be physically assaulted, victims may be unaware of their
potential for returning to the abusive relationship and the risks involved in remaining in
that relationship (Herbert et al., 1991; Martin et al., 2000). Although some evidence
suggests that victims will permanently leave an abusive relationship within two years
after the initiation of violence (Gortner, Berns, Jacobson, & Gottman, 1997), additional
findings indicate that the victim may repeatedly leave and return to the batterer before
eventually ending the relationship (Schutte, Malouff, & Doyle, 1988).

From UNDERSTANDING STAY/LEAVE DECISIONS IN VIOLENT
RELATIONSHIPS: A BEHAVIOR ANALYTIC APPROACH
Kathryn M. Bell and Amy E. Naugle

In Behavior and Social Issues, 14, 21-45 (2005)

You obviously haven't been reading, as this is what I said in my very first post. I said there are lots of reasons why abuse victims stay with their abuser. Not one of them is because they like 'bad boys', necessarily. See Jem's posts for further truth bombs, friend.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16580

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

THOSE SEATCOVERS

I think those are just the seats. I'm sure I remember seeing them in a crusty old 924 that a colleague used to own.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 15:51

Lonewolves wrote:

MaliA wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

And because behaving like a violent twat will get you an entire queue of women.

Err, no. The 'bad boys gets the women' trope is fallacious. It was invented by men who think they're 'nice guys', but who are actually stalkerish creeps.

Except not really.

May fit with how you view the world. But yeah. No.

Evidence? Because you're talking out of your arse, I'm afraid.

Yeah, I don't think me talking about things I've seen in the past are really going to help convnce you, as it's an ideological block for you.

But basically what you're trying to do is to try and convince me there's no such colour as blue, because you've never seen blue or because the people you surround yourself with have pursuaded you that blue doesn't exist.

It happens. There's solid reasons for it to happen from an evolutionary biology point of view. But strangely, we're often meant to ignore the millenia of evolution that have lead to how our brains work because it's uncomfortable.

Utter nonsense, Dave, and very insulting. Just because you may have experienced seeing someone who has been in abusive relationship and not leave it doesn't mean that they 'prefer' men who are abusive - anecdotes are not data, after all - it is a lot more complicated than that.

Quote:

Numerous studies indicate that victims who contact the police
during a domestic dispute or briefly leave an abusive relationship are often at high risk
for eventually returning to that relationship and experiencing continued abuse (Brookoff,
O'Brien, Cook, Thompson, & Williams, 1997; Herbert, Silver, & Ellard, 1991; Martin et
al., 2000; Snyder & Scheer, 1981). Despite the fact that so many victims return to their
partners and continue to be physically assaulted, victims may be unaware of their
potential for returning to the abusive relationship and the risks involved in remaining in
that relationship (Herbert et al., 1991; Martin et al., 2000). Although some evidence
suggests that victims will permanently leave an abusive relationship within two years
after the initiation of violence (Gortner, Berns, Jacobson, & Gottman, 1997), additional
findings indicate that the victim may repeatedly leave and return to the batterer before
eventually ending the relationship (Schutte, Malouff, & Doyle, 1988).

From UNDERSTANDING STAY/LEAVE DECISIONS IN VIOLENT
RELATIONSHIPS: A BEHAVIOR ANALYTIC APPROACH
Kathryn M. Bell and Amy E. Naugle

In Behavior and Social Issues, 14, 21-45 (2005)

You obviously haven't been reading, as this is what I said in my very first post. I said there are lots of reasons why abuse victims stay with their abuser. Not one of them is because they like 'bad boys', necessarily. See Jem's posts for further truth bombs, friend.

I got your back with data, here.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49233

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

MrChris wrote:

What, people who like SAP products?

We'll do the tech jokes, thanks. Stay in your lane, lawyer boy.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 15:52

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

THOSE SEATCOVERS

ARE AWESOME

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 15:53

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

And because behaving like a violent twat will get you an entire queue of women.

Err, no. The 'bad boys gets the women' trope is fallacious. It was invented by men who think they're 'nice guys', but who are actually stalkerish creeps.

Except not really.

May fit with how you view the world. But yeah. No.

Evidence? Because you're talking out of your arse, I'm afraid.

Yeah, I don't think me talking about things I've seen in the past are really going to help convnce you, as it's an ideological block for you.

But basically what you're trying to do is to try and convince me there's no such colour as blue, because you've never seen blue or because the people you surround yourself with have pursuaded you that blue doesn't exist.

It happens. There's solid reasons for it to happen from an evolutionary biology point of view. But strangely, we're often meant to ignore the millenia of evolution that have lead to how our brains work because it's uncomfortable.

Utter nonsense, Dave, and very insulting. Just because you may have experienced seeing someone who has been in abusive relationship and not leave it doesn't mean that they 'prefer' men who are abusive - anecdotes are not data, after all - it is a lot more complicated than that.

In any case, the alpha/beta pack myth has been utterly debunked, and in any case humans didn't evolve like that. Males tended to stay with one family until they were grown up and then move on to another female to propagate again. Alpha males was a theory created by Rudolph Schenkel and David Mech and Mech has now debunked it himself. He's even asked the publisher to stop selling his book, but they refuse.

No, I've seen people (plural) going into relationships in the advance knowledge that they would be abusive. Because the human heart does its own thing because pretty much every gendered species responds to displays of dominance, even (some might argue especially) in the case where genes are passed down family lines rather than direct lines. I don't know why you think humans are any different to any other animal. We're not overly rational.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

MaliA wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

THOSE SEATCOVERS

ARE AWESOME

And it's PARKED ON A BEACH. It literally could not be cooler.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 15:55

Mr Dave wrote:

No, I've seen people (plural)

Well that's settled that then.

And how many other people have you seen you in non-abusive relationships in your life? I'd wager a whole lot more.

Sorry Dave, but you're utterly wrong here. Dogmatic, almost.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 15:56

MaliA wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

MaliA wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

And because behaving like a violent twat will get you an entire queue of women.

Err, no. The 'bad boys gets the women' trope is fallacious. It was invented by men who think they're 'nice guys', but who are actually stalkerish creeps.

Except not really.

May fit with how you view the world. But yeah. No.

Evidence? Because you're talking out of your arse, I'm afraid.

Yeah, I don't think me talking about things I've seen in the past are really going to help convnce you, as it's an ideological block for you.

But basically what you're trying to do is to try and convince me there's no such colour as blue, because you've never seen blue or because the people you surround yourself with have pursuaded you that blue doesn't exist.

It happens. There's solid reasons for it to happen from an evolutionary biology point of view. But strangely, we're often meant to ignore the millenia of evolution that have lead to how our brains work because it's uncomfortable.

Utter nonsense, Dave, and very insulting. Just because you may have experienced seeing someone who has been in abusive relationship and not leave it doesn't mean that they 'prefer' men who are abusive - anecdotes are not data, after all - it is a lot more complicated than that.

Quote:

Numerous studies indicate that victims who contact the police
during a domestic dispute or briefly leave an abusive relationship are often at high risk
for eventually returning to that relationship and experiencing continued abuse (Brookoff,
O'Brien, Cook, Thompson, & Williams, 1997; Herbert, Silver, & Ellard, 1991; Martin et
al., 2000; Snyder & Scheer, 1981). Despite the fact that so many victims return to their
partners and continue to be physically assaulted, victims may be unaware of their
potential for returning to the abusive relationship and the risks involved in remaining in
that relationship (Herbert et al., 1991; Martin et al., 2000). Although some evidence
suggests that victims will permanently leave an abusive relationship within two years
after the initiation of violence (Gortner, Berns, Jacobson, & Gottman, 1997), additional
findings indicate that the victim may repeatedly leave and return to the batterer before
eventually ending the relationship (Schutte, Malouff, & Doyle, 1988).

From UNDERSTANDING STAY/LEAVE DECISIONS IN VIOLENT
RELATIONSHIPS: A BEHAVIOR ANALYTIC APPROACH
Kathryn M. Bell and Amy E. Naugle

In Behavior and Social Issues, 14, 21-45 (2005)

You obviously haven't been reading, as this is what I said in my very first post. I said there are lots of reasons why abuse victims stay with their abuser. Not one of them is because they like 'bad boys', necessarily. See Jem's posts for further truth bombs, friend.

I got your back with data, here.

Then I apologise! Thank you.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 16:02

I don't want to argue about this with you anymore Dave. You're my friend and I love you.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 16:04

Lonewolves wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

No, I've seen people (plural)

Well that's settled that then.

And how many other people have you seen you in non-abusive relationships in your life? I'd wager a whole lot more.

You do sometimes seem to add your own words to mine, and then end up arguing against point that I never made. You'll note that I didn't say that being a dick would get you a queue of every person, or even of the majority of people. Just that it would get you a degree of interest.
Do you deny that there are some people who are attracted to the kind of person who would abuse them?

myp · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 16:09

Lonewolves wrote:

I don't want to argue about this with you anymore Dave. You're my friend and I love you.

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 16:11

I'll argue with you, Dave. Dave, you're wrong.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

This isn't an argument, it's just gainsaying.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 16:16

MrChris wrote:

This isn't an argument, it's just gainsaying.

Really?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

MaliA wrote:

MrChris wrote:

This isn't an argument, it's just gainsaying.

Really?

No.

GazChap · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2017 16:17

Lonewolves wrote:

I don't want to argue about this with you anymore Dave. You're my friend and I love you.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:46

I'm in a pool which is affected by redundancy this time round.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:52

Lonewolves wrote:

I'm in a pool which is affected by redundancy this time round.

We all are.....

myp · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:53

KovacsC wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

I'm in a pool which is affected by redundancy this time round.

We all are.....

First time for me though.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:57

I think it is my 6th..

Zardoz · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:57

Fingers crossed for you both. Horrible thing to go through.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 13:00

I am happy either way.

Thinking about taking it

myp · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 13:04

KovacsC wrote:

I am happy either way.

Thinking about taking it

I need another ten years to get the full payout. Will never happen.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 13:08

Hope it goes your way, chaps.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 13:11

I would love to go... would love it. But I can't afford to. Not yet. I won't get paid the same doing the same job anywhere else, and I don't really have any specialist IT skills or qualifications.

devilman · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 14:32

Lonewolves wrote:

I won't get paid the same doing the same job anywhere else, and I don't really have any specialist IT skills or qualifications.

That sounds a lot like me. I feel fortunate to get where I am considering I've not specialising in anything, but it means I'm rather stuck here till I fluke something else.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16580

Well, that's a right shitsack. Fingers crossed for you both.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

So, Ruth's in hospital with some epic kidney stones. Two, in just the wrong places to deal with. Kidney is getting damaged by it as it's all backing up. One procedure today to try to get rid of the lower stone and put a stent in, then another one in a month or two (!) to get the other stone out then another procedure a month or two after that to get the stent out. The stent is quite painful to have in so she's going to be mega pissed off for up to four months. The stent is to let the pressure off the kidney. If they can't get the lower stone out they can't get the stent in, so might have to basically stick a tube into the kidney from the outside, which would stay in place for a few weeks which is worse case.

Ffs.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 15:15

MrChris wrote:

So, Ruth's in hospital with some epic kidney stones. Two, in just the wrong places to deal with. Kidney is getting damaged by it as it's all backing up. One procedure today to try to get rid of the lower stone and put a stent in, then another one in a month or two (!) to get the other stone out then another procedure a month or two after that to get the stent out. The stent is quite painful to have in so she's going to be mega pissed off for up to four months. The stent is to let the pressure off the kidney. If they can't get the lower stone out they can't get the stent in, so might have to basically stick a tube into the kidney from the outside, which would stay in place for a few weeks which is worse case.

Ffs.

Yikes. Fingers crossed it all goes as smoothly as possible and you've got a good local support network for help with the boys.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38519

That sounds terrible! When were you supposed to be heading overseas?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

DavPaz wrote:

That sounds terrible! When were you supposed to be heading overseas?

January. Bigger issue is the puppy arriving on Sunday.... this is all getting difficult to organise. Work are being a bit shit - annual leave having to be taken, the arseholes. I've sent a slightly moaney email to HR.
Ruth's folks are helping with the kids today thankfully

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38519

Good luck to all, and GWS to the missus. Nasty business, kidney stones.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Lonewolves wrote:

Yikes. Fingers crossed it all goes as smoothly as possible and you've got a good local support network for help with the boys.

Thanks chap. I dealt with the kids yesterday and Ruth's mum was with her as she got admitted as a bit of a surprise. We've swapped today.

GazChap · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 15:38

Lonewolves wrote:

and I don't really have any specialist IT skills or qualifications.

Now's possibly the time to get some, then

Good luck guys (and MrsChris)

myp · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 15:42

GazChap wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

and I don't really have any specialist IT skills or qualifications.

Now's possibly the time to get some, then

The problem is that I find IT utterly tedious these days. I can't think of anything I'd especially enjoy specialising in.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38519

Lonewolves wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

and I don't really have any specialist IT skills or qualifications.

Now's possibly the time to get some, then

The problem is that I find IT utterly tedious these days. I can't think of anything I'd especially enjoy specialising in.

Pressing power buttons for imbeciles. It's my full time job!

GazChap · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 15:46

Lonewolves wrote:

The problem is that I find IT utterly tedious these days. I can't think of anything I'd especially enjoy specialising in.

Fair enough - seems to affect everyone in IT eventually.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2017 15:47

DavPaz wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

and I don't really have any specialist IT skills or qualifications.

Now's possibly the time to get some, then

The problem is that I find IT utterly tedious these days. I can't think of anything I'd especially enjoy specialising in.

Pressing power buttons for imbeciles. It's my full time job!

I've been away from dealing with end users for five years now. Not sure I could go back.

Maybe network design would suit me, but it would mean doing my CCNA again (it expired and I never renewed) and starting on about £10k less than I'm currently on as a junior network engineer.

Be Excellent To Each Other

The 'NAY!' Thread

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