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I went through a bit of a 'Pratchett Phase' about 10 years ago, but ultimately, I just couldn't be dealing with that meandering, verbose style of writing with those endless fucking 'footnotes' that essentially told the same joke roughly one thousand times over.

I did like The Librarian, Death of Rats and The Luggage though, and as others have noted, Good Omens is a 24-carat classic. I too have read that at least three times over. (Gotta love Crowley's Bentley with James Bond bullet stickers obtained from the petrol station, and the quote '... in Hell, they really are all out to get you'.

(I've not seen any of the TV adaptations)

Captain Caveman wrote:

Meandering and verbose? Are you sure that you were reading Pratchett and not Rowling???

Captain Caveman wrote:

(I've not seen any of the TV adaptations)

Hmm don't find him meandering or verbose and I must be pretty dense because the footnotes often raise a chuckle and I don't normally laugh at a joke after I have already heard it (unless a hot lady is telling it).

Each to their own I suppose, what authors do you like? What are your opinions on Adams for example?

Captain Caveman wrote:

Meandering and verbose? Are you sure that you were reading Pratchett and not Rowling???

For me, Pratchett does far too much dithering and dicking about; his books are way too 'fussy'

Captain Caveman wrote:

For me, Pratchett does far too much dithering and dicking about; his books are way too 'fussy'

That's how I ended up feeling about Tolkien, there was a good story in there but it took too long/was too much effort to get anywhere because of all the extraneous detail, which was a shame.

He must've done something right though, enough people whose opinions I value about books liked LOTR.

Dear Lord, I agree about Tolkein. I got half way through the second Lord Of The Rings book and couldn't put up with any more of the characters doing nothing but walking.

Dimrill's going to come back, read what you've all written about Tolkein, and murder you all. FYI.

I think a virgin blood sacrifice might help actually, so cheers.

Dimrill's going to come back, read what you've all written about Tolkein, and murder you all. FYI.

Craster wrote:

Dimrill's going to come back, read what you've all written about Tolkein, and murder you all. FYI.

*Equips Shirt of Unlifting*

Grim... wrote:

Dear Lord, I agree about Tolkein. I got half way through the second Lord Of The Rings book and couldn't put up with any more of the characters doing nothing but walking.

See also: endless bloody poetry and Tom Bombadil. Or "Tom Fucking Bombadil" to give him his full name.

I must say, I find it fascinating how tastes vary. For me, there's just no comparison between Pratchett and Tolkein, even though their works are (vaguely) of the same genre.

Captain Caveman wrote:

I must say, I find it fascinating how tastes vary. For me, there's just no comparison between Pratchett and Tolkein, even though their works are (vaguely) of the same genre.

Blimey, are they? You're comparing epic fantasy and satire that uses fantasy as a backdrop. I'd say they were miles apart, personally.

I must say that I loved reading The Hobbit. Not half as meandering as LotR which I have attempted to read on several occasions and have put down after hitting the Bomberdildo.

Captain Caveman wrote:

I must say, I find it fascinating how tastes vary. For me, there's just no comparison between Pratchett and Tolkein, even though their works are (vaguely) of the same genre.

Blimey, are they? You're comparing epic fantasy and satire that uses fantasy as a backdrop. I'd say they were miles apart, personally.

They're both fantasy (and in fact, Pratchett borrows heavily from Tolkein in every book of his that I've ever read) - that's close enough for me, personally. I did say 'vaguely'.

Having said that, I don't want to be drawn into a tedious and entirely pointless 'Tolkein ownz Pratchett' style argument here, as clearly such things are all down to personal preference.

Edit -- another example -- is Alien a sci-fi film or a horror film that just happens to be set in space with an alien antagonist? To my mind, it's structured like a horror film, so that's what it is. The fact it has a sci-fi setting is almost incidental to the themes of the film.

unless you're a nerd who files his DVDs by genre?

The Rev Owen wrote:

unless you're a nerd who files his DVDs by genre?

Guillermo del Toro files his DVDs alphabetically by director. Now that's a nerd.

Wait. You mean you're not Guillermo del Toro? I'm confused. Who are you again?

Re: LotR and Pratchett being comparable because they're both 'fantasy'.

1984 and Star Wars are both science fiction.

Author:	Cavey [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
I went through a bit of a 'Pratchett Phase' about 10 years ago, but ultimately, I just couldn't be dealing with that meandering, verbose style of writing with those endless fucking 'footnotes' that essentially told the same joke roughly one thousand times over. I did like The Librarian, Death of Rats and The Luggage though, and as others have noted, Good Omens is a 24-carat classic. I too have read that at least three times over. (Gotta love Crowley's Bentley with James Bond bullet stickers obtained from the petrol station, and the quote '... in Hell, they really are all out to get you'. (I've not seen any of the TV adaptations)

Author:	Nemmie [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Captain Caveman wrote: I went through a bit of a 'Pratchett Phase' about 10 years ago, but ultimately, I just couldn't be dealing with that meandering, verbose style of writing with those endless fucking 'footnotes' that essentially told the same joke roughly one thousand times over. I did like The Librarian, Death of Rats and The Luggage though, and as others have noted, Good Omens is a 24-carat classic. I too have read that at least three times over. (Gotta love Crowley's Bentley with James Bond bullet stickers obtained from the petrol station, and the quote '... in Hell, they really are all out to get you'. (I've not seen any of the TV adaptations) Hmm don't find him meandering or verbose and I must be pretty dense because the footnotes often raise a chuckle and I don't normally laugh at a joke after I have already heard it (unless a hot lady is telling it). Each to their own I suppose, what authors do you like? What are your opinions on Adams for example?

Author:	Four_Candles [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Captain Caveman wrote: I went through a bit of a 'Pratchett Phase' about 10 years ago, but ultimately, I just couldn't be dealing with that meandering, verbose style of writing with those endless fucking 'footnotes' that essentially told the same joke roughly one thousand times over. Meandering and verbose? Are you sure that you were reading Pratchett and not Rowling???

Author:	MaliA [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:44 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Four_Candles wrote: Captain Caveman wrote: I went through a bit of a 'Pratchett Phase' about 10 years ago, but ultimately, I just couldn't be dealing with that meandering, verbose style of writing with those endless fucking 'footnotes' that essentially told the same joke roughly one thousand times over. Meandering and verbose? Are you sure that you were reading Pratchett and not Rowling???

Author:	kalmar [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Captain Caveman wrote: I went through a bit of a 'Pratchett Phase' about 10 years ago, but ultimately, I just couldn't be dealing with that meandering, verbose style of writing with those endless fucking 'footnotes' that essentially told the same joke roughly one thousand times over. This. I think I felt the same way after a phase lasting for one book. I wanted to like it.. but just didn't

Be Excellent To Each Other https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/

Going Postal https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5925	Page 2 of 4

Author:	Cavey [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Nemmie wrote: Captain Caveman wrote: I went through a bit of a 'Pratchett Phase' about 10 years ago, but ultimately, I just couldn't be dealing with that meandering, verbose style of writing with those endless fucking 'footnotes' that essentially told the same joke roughly one thousand times over. I did like The Librarian, Death of Rats and The Luggage though, and as others have noted, Good Omens is a 24-carat classic. I too have read that at least three times over. (Gotta love Crowley's Bentley with James Bond bullet stickers obtained from the petrol station, and the quote '... in Hell, they really are all out to get you'. (I've not seen any of the TV adaptations) Hmm don't find him meandering or verbose and I must be pretty dense because the footnotes often raise a chuckle and I don't normally laugh at a joke after I have already heard it (unless a hot lady is telling it). Each to their own I suppose, what authors do you like? What are your opinions on Adams for example? It's certainly not a case of being 'dense' old chap. Hey, maybe I'm just a miserable old bastard! Seriously though, just differences in sense of humour, I guess. Too few mentions of toilet mishaps for my liking... I am very poorly read I'm ashamed to say. Many years ago I was an avid reader of sci-fi and horror, very much enjoying the likes of Assimov, Clarke, Dick, Vonnegut, Robinson, Banks and yes, King and Herbert too, with a bit of Tom Sharpe thrown in for good measure, for laughs, not to mention such staples as Tolkien of course. I seriously can't remember the last book I read now though, suffice to say this was at least 3 years back. The joys of running a small business in a recession... As for Adams, I love HHGTTG of course; laugh out loud funny (Slarty Bartfast... L-LOL). And the original R4 and '80s TV adaptationss of it were awesome too IMO. (I couldn't bring myself to watch the latest Hollywood offering; this was so manifestly slated over at WoS at the time, I just thought let sleeping dogs lie).

Author:	Cavey [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:16 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Four_Candles wrote: Captain Caveman wrote: I went through a bit of a 'Pratchett Phase' about 10 years ago, but ultimately, I just couldn't be dealing with that meandering, verbose style of writing with those endless fucking 'footnotes' that essentially told the same joke roughly one thousand times over. Meandering and verbose? Are you sure that you were reading Pratchett and not Rowling??? Each to his own, man. For me, Pratchett does far too much dithering and dicking about; his books are way too 'fussy', trying to be amusing via the same old route over and over (namely his constantly drawing clumsy parallels between Discworld and our own vague history and values... we got it the 100th time, Terry), all at the expense of a compelling - and at times even coherent - storyline. Not exactly gripping stuff for me, then, but at least quaintly amusing in parts, albeit in an entirely predictable and oft repeated manner throughout the Discworld series.

Author:	Wullie [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Captain Caveman wrote: For me, Pratchett does far too much dithering and dicking about; his books are way too 'fussy' That's how I ended up feeling about Tolkien, there was a good story in there but it took too long/was too much effort to get anywhere because of all the extraneous detail, which was a shame. He must've done something right though, enough people whose opinions I value about books liked LOTR.

Author:	Malabelm [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:59 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Wullie wrote: Captain Caveman wrote: For me, Pratchett does far too much dithering and dicking about; his books are way too 'fussy' That's how I ended up feeling about Tolkien, there was a good story in there but it took too long/was too much effort to get anywhere because of all the extraneous detail, which was a shame. He must've done something right though, enough people whose opinions I value about books liked LOTR. Did Tolkien actually finish naming the dwarfs? I fell asleep. Dwarfs? Dwarves? He makes a fussy distinction, doesn't he? Buggered if I remember which, though.

Author:	Cras [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 13:07 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
I almost prefer backstory, setting, and exposition to plot. 90% of fantasy writers are much better at creating a universe than they are at writing a story. So you all suck.

Author:	Zardoz [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 13:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Never read any of his books. The covers look nice though.

Author:	Grim... [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 13:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Dear Lord, I agree about Tolkein. I got half way through the second Lord Of The Rings book and couldn't put up with any more of the characters doing nothing but walking.

Author:	MrChris [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 14:03 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Grim... wrote: Dear Lord, I agree about Tolkein. I got half way through the second Lord Of The Rings book and couldn't put up with any more of the characters doing nothing but walking. See also: endless bloody poetry and Tom Bombadil. Or "Tom Fucking Bombadil" to give him his full name.

Author:	Squirt [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 14:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
When I read LOTR I felt a bit guilty skipping the pages of bloody elvish poetry, like I might be missing something important or enlightening. I don't think I did.

Author:	Anonymous X [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 15:55 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Grim... wrote: Dear Lord, I agree about Tolkein. I got half way through the second Lord Of The Rings book and couldn't put up with any more of the characters doing nothing but walking. Those Tolkein books are the usual 'classics' which turn out to not be so great after all once you discover how tiresome they are. The Emperor's Old Books, if you like. T. Pratchett's books are better the older you get, with the more historical, cultural and world knowledge you have in your brain neurons. Do agree that his books could be a little 'tighter', though.

Author:	Cras [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 16:13 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Dimrill's going to come back, read what you've all written about Tolkein, and murder you all. FYI.

Author:	kalmar [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 16:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Oh good.

Author:	Malabelm [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 16:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Craster wrote: Dimrill's going to come back, read what you've all written about Tolkein, and murder you all. FYI. I can live with being murdered to get an Dimrill back.

Author:	kalmar [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 16:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
I think a virgin blood sacrifice might help actually, so cheers.

Author:	MaliA [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 16:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
kalmar wrote: I think a virgin blood sacrifice might help actually, so cheers. Nicely played, sir, nicely played.

Author:	Malabelm [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 16:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
kalmar wrote: I think a virgin blood sacrifice might help actually, so cheers. Owned

Author:	kalmar [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 16:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal

Author:	Zardoz [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 16:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Craster wrote: Dimrill's going to come back, read what you've all written about Tolkein, and murder you all. FYI. Equips Shirt of Unlifting

Author:	Wullie [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 17:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Zardoz wrote: Craster wrote: Dimrill's going to come back, read what you've all written about Tolkein, and murder you all. FYI. Equips Shirt of Unlifting Is that the opposite of Tolkien's Shirt of Lifting which has loads of tiny details that really make your outfit?

Author:	Mr Dave [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 0:55 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Mr Kissyfur wrote: Grim... wrote: Dear Lord, I agree about Tolkein. I got half way through the second Lord Of The Rings book and couldn't put up with any more of the characters doing nothing but walking. See also: endless bloody poetry and Tom Bombadil. Or "Tom Fucking Bombadil" to give him his full name. It gets worse I know a friend with that. I read a bit. It is as bad as you might think.

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
/shivers

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Oh my word. Tolkien's works really are just a bottomless pit of horror.

Author:	Cavey [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 13:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
I must say, I find it fascinating how tastes vary. For me, there's just no comparison between Pratchett and Tolkein, even though their works are (vaguely) of the same genre. I well remember being genuinely thrilled by The Hobit when I read it as part of the school syllabus, when I was 11, and being equally thrilled by The Lord of the Rings trilogy perhaps 5 years later. Tolkein, I think, has a genuine story to tell; all that extravagant detail (a bit too extravagant perhaps?) is a bonus. With Pratchett that detail is inferior and rather more base I feel, and in terms of an actual storyline there's really no comparison at all IMO. Don't get me wrong, I've read quite a few Discworld novels (and particularly enjoyed Mort and Reaper Man), but Tolkein's yarns remain vividly in-memory/focus for me, unlike most others I have read and despite the 30-odd years since I actually read these particular books. That for me is the acid test for a truly great book, relatively speaking of course.

Author:	Zardoz [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 13:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
I must say that I loved reading The Hobbit. Not half as meandering as LotR which I have attempted to read on several occasions and have put down after hitting the Bomberdildo.

Author:	Nemmie [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 13:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
The Hobbit was great can't say I enjoyed the adult books though. Just started my first Discworld adventure that is aimed at children and I am really enjoying it even though so far it has been all new characters. The Wee Free Men is the book in question so thanks for this thread for pointing me in a new and wonderful direction. Tiffany Aching is already rising steadily in my all time list of Discworld inhabitants.

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 13:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Captain Caveman wrote: I must say, I find it fascinating how tastes vary. For me, there's just no comparison between Pratchett and Tolkein, even though their works are (vaguely) of the same genre. Blimey, are they? You're comparing epic fantasy and satire that uses fantasy as a backdrop. I'd say they were miles apart, personally.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 13:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Captain Caveman wrote: I must say, I find it fascinating how tastes vary. For me, there's just no comparison between Pratchett and Tolkein, even though their works are (vaguely) of the same genre. Blimey, are they? You're comparing epic fantasy and satire that uses fantasy as a backdrop. I'd say they were miles apart, personally. Also, whilst it may seem something that he had in common with Pratchett, Tolkien didn't actually have Alzheimer's. It's a common misconception. He just wrote as if he did. He kept forgetting that he'd already had the characters walk for miles to [place with silly name], and so then, in what he thought was a fit of inspiration, wrote in a bit about them walking to [place with silly name but with a typo], and then forgot about that bit of walking, and wrote some more the next week after he'd had his special pills. Ad nauseam. And he fiddled kiddies. Or was that Lewis Carrol? Anyway, the creator of Tom Bombadil must have been on some sort of watch list.

Author:	End of an Era [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 13:53 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Zardoz wrote: I must say that I loved reading The Hobbit. Not half as meandering as LotR which I have attempted to read on several occasions and have put down after hitting the Bomberdildo. Nobody I've ever met has liked the Old Forest section of LotR or Tom Bomberdil.

Author:	The Rev Owen [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 13:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Going Postal
Um, I like that bit of the book. Sorry.