The net result for those we hated was one of them being either permanently on holiday or chillaxing in his 25k shed and the other one editing the Evening Standard.
Yeah I’d say the protest votes weren’t working.
Yeah I’d say the protest votes weren’t working.
MrChris wrote:
The net result for those we hated was one of them being either permanently on holiday or chillaxing in his 25k shed and the other one editing the Evening Standard.
Yeah I’d say the protest votes weren’t working.
Yeah I’d say the protest votes weren’t working.
For what he has caused? he should be fucking arrested. I mean how can we let some one throw our country into disarray and then let him just walk away? 'sake.
Deep down it all really saddens me. Not because I really care about the country and etc but more the way people have reacted. I have never seen such undiplomatic reactions in my entire life. Now sure, Brexit is probably fucking stupid (if any one ever does actually fucking bother to explain what it actually means) but seeing the reaction? jesus. Fact is for better or worse we voted out, now we just have to deal with it (without calling each side stupid, idiots, uneducated and etc).
I think there is some quite severe over reaction from all sides. Thing is, we seemed to be OK before we joined the EU? maybe the better solution would have been to offer people in or out before we went in balls deep. Now? it's all very messy.
JohnCoffey wrote:
Deep down it all really saddens me. Not because I really care about the country and etc but more the way people have reacted. I have never seen such undiplomatic reactions in my entire life. Now sure, Brexit is probably fucking stupid (if any one ever does actually fucking bother to explain what it actually means) but seeing the reaction? jesus. Fact is for better or worse we voted out, now we just have to deal with it (without calling each side stupid, idiots, uneducated and etc).
Better to concentrate on the fight to stop it now than to dwell on what happened two years ago. I think the tide has slowly started to turn, but currently not sure if it will do so in time. I also don't think it's of any use to attack people for how they acted back then, but find ways to get them on board now. Unless they acted solely out of racism of course.
Quote:
I think there is some quite severe over reaction from all sides. Thing is, we seemed to be OK before we joined the EU? maybe the better solution would have been to offer people in or out before we went in balls deep. Now? it's all very messy.
Disagree. We were very much 'the sick man of Europe' when we joined back in the 1970s, and even then after about a decade of begging to be let into the club we'd originally shunned. And the first referendum, done to keep the Labour party from tearing itself to pieces, saw a two-thirds majority in favour of staying. But things were very different then. For the social history, I like Dominic Sandbrook's series; for the detailed political history, try the late Hugo Young's 'This Blessed Plot'; for a short overview of 70 years of mistakes go for Jason Farell and Paul Goldsmith's 'How to Lose a Referendum'.
This is an interesting read.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... brexit-mps
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... brexit-mps
Quote:
Tory MPs have so far largely swallowed a hard Brexit they do not want. But a no-deal is an unprecedented catastrophe. Many shy rebels will draw the line at licensing national suicide on principle. Others will think more politically. A Tory government that sends the economy and livelihoods over the cliff will collapse the Tory party for a generation.
Even MPs who would not save the country might opt to save themselves. Labour, for its part, declared a no-deal scenario its red line in the 2017 election manifesto. Even a handful of extra Tory rebels would break the government’s Brexit majority. After all, government whips last month threatened MPs that losing a key Brexit vote would trigger a general election, and still only won by six votes.
Even MPs who would not save the country might opt to save themselves. Labour, for its part, declared a no-deal scenario its red line in the 2017 election manifesto. Even a handful of extra Tory rebels would break the government’s Brexit majority. After all, government whips last month threatened MPs that losing a key Brexit vote would trigger a general election, and still only won by six votes.
Quote:
Why then is May talking up the prospect of no-deal even when it remains inconceivable? This is the real “project fear”. She hopes that just enough talk of stockpiling food and medicine will blackmail just enough MPs into voting for her still-elusive EU deal. Far likelier is that she scares the public into supporting a new vote on Brexit, with the option of abandoning it altogether.
Grows evermore likely
I still think that the world has ‘sped up’, and any talk of one of the two major political parties being out of power for a generation on any single issue is an absolute nonsense.
The only reason I could see that happening if one of them splits because of Brexit. That’s looking more likely for the conservatives.
Any talk of anything other than zombie apocalypse is absolute nonsense.
I think for the Tories, there's a real fear that if they don't 'deliver Brexit' (a phrase that irritates me every time I hear it, implying it is a one-off piece of work rather than an on-going project), their supporters and activists will desert them enmasse, seriously harming their organisation and structures. Must suck being a remain-leaning MP at summer cocktail parties with the local Association right now.
Barnier just took the Chequers deal out behind the woodshed and walked back alone.
‘In an op-ed published in twenty European newspapers, Barnier wrote: “Some UK proposals would undermine our Single Market which is one of the EU's biggest achievements. The UK wants to keep free movement of goods between us, but not of people and services. And it proposes to apply EU customs rules without being part of the EU's legal order. Thus, the UK wants to take back sovereignty and control of its own laws, which we respect, but it cannot ask the EU to lose control of its borders and laws.”’
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... e-uk-gover
‘In an op-ed published in twenty European newspapers, Barnier wrote: “Some UK proposals would undermine our Single Market which is one of the EU's biggest achievements. The UK wants to keep free movement of goods between us, but not of people and services. And it proposes to apply EU customs rules without being part of the EU's legal order. Thus, the UK wants to take back sovereignty and control of its own laws, which we respect, but it cannot ask the EU to lose control of its borders and laws.”’
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... e-uk-gover
Remainers and Brexiters alike, please listen to this interview, it will open your eyes as to exactly how screwed the UK is if we go ahead with Brexit -
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/ ... xit-facts/
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/ ... xit-facts/
The thing is Brexiters will just come back with something like this.
It's impossible to debate sensibly with them. I've stopped trying to talk to my in-laws about it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rexit.html
It's impossible to debate sensibly with them. I've stopped trying to talk to my in-laws about it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rexit.html
Quote:
'The best option is no deal,' he told Bloomberg. 'No deal would give us free trade with Europe because the three biggest economies in Europe, outside Britain, are huge exporters to the UK.
'That's Germany, France and Italy. And those three economies would absolutely demand free trade from the EU. I guarantee my entire wealth that we would get free trade.'
'That's Germany, France and Italy. And those three economies would absolutely demand free trade from the EU. I guarantee my entire wealth that we would get free trade.'
What's been interesting and impressive is how dedicated the other countries have been to the EU and its institutions. I think the government went in expecting to be able to buy off each country individually, like they would in a European council meeting or a treaty conference, and have been unable to cope with the reality that they are happy with how things are and don't want it to change just because we're being awkward.
I still think Mrs May lost all control when she gave in to the extreme Brexit obsessives (I'm bored of 'Brexiteer' now - makes them sound wrong but romantic) and set out her 'red lines' on the single market and customs union so early long. Really boxed herself into a corner on that one.
I still think Mrs May lost all control when she gave in to the extreme Brexit obsessives (I'm bored of 'Brexiteer' now - makes them sound wrong but romantic) and set out her 'red lines' on the single market and customs union so early long. Really boxed herself into a corner on that one.
Hearthly wrote:
It's impossible to debate sensibly with them. I've stopped trying to talk to my in-laws about it.
If we've learnt anything over past two years, it's the international trading rules are very complex, very technical, and very dull. But if we want to leave, we've got all this to unpick. No wonder everyone only ever talks in generalisations and slogans.
Kern wrote:
If we've learnt anything over past two years, it's the international trading rules are very complex, very technical, and very dull. But if we want to leave, we've got all this to unpick. No wonder everyone only ever talks in generalisations and slogans.
I don't entirely agree TBH, the articles and interviews I've read and listened to that properly go into these areas I've found fascinating.
The issues begin when you start to try and convey these complexities and difficulties to people who JUST WANT BRITAIN TO BE GREAT AGAIN, at which point we get Boris-esque generalisations and slogans.
Hearthly wrote:
the articles and interviews I've read and listened to that properly go into these areas I've found fascinating.
Ian Dunt's book and his articles on all of it should be mandatory reading for MPs. He's been brilliant at explaining all the complexities. But some of us just yearn for the days when we didn't need to know how the aeroplanes landed or the cheap Riesling reached us and instead wasted our days reading about 19th century troop formations and getting to grips with the complexities of the railway ticketing scheme....
Quote:
The issues begin when you start to try and convey these complexities and difficulties to people who JUST WANT BRITAIN TO BE GREAT AGAIN, at which point we get Boris-esque generalisations and slogans.
Unless we'd spent 40 years fully engaging with Europe, rather than just seeing it as a distraction and sideshow, I don't think we'd ever have won an emotional argument. As I've said before, one of the few positives coming out of this whole high-speed train crash is, at least, the creation of a European movement that never really existed before.
Hearthly wrote:
The thing is Brexiters will just come back with something like this.
It's impossible to debate sensibly with them. I've stopped trying to talk to my in-laws about it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rexit.html
It's impossible to debate sensibly with them. I've stopped trying to talk to my in-laws about it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rexit.html
Quote:
'The best option is no deal,' he told Bloomberg. 'No deal would give us free trade with Europe because the three biggest economies in Europe, outside Britain, are huge exporters to the UK.
'That's Germany, France and Italy. And those three economies would absolutely demand free trade from the EU. I guarantee my entire wealth that we would get free trade.'
'That's Germany, France and Italy. And those three economies would absolutely demand free trade from the EU. I guarantee my entire wealth that we would get free trade.'
What a strange thing to say. The EU has offered a free trade deal already, hasn't it? Why would we need to go through the uncertainty of a no deal exit?
I was just chatting to an academic about football (he's a Derby fan) and I happened to mention how there's a lot of young English players coming through.
He says "That's one of the excellent things about Brexit!"
Then he says "I suppose you're one of those Remainers, are you?"
I say "Yep, 100%"
The odious twerp then says "Oh well, you lost. Get over it"
I say in my best professionally polite voice "You can go now, I have work to do". That's not what I *wanted* to say...
He says "That's one of the excellent things about Brexit!"
Then he says "I suppose you're one of those Remainers, are you?"
I say "Yep, 100%"
The odious twerp then says "Oh well, you lost. Get over it"
I say in my best professionally polite voice "You can go now, I have work to do". That's not what I *wanted* to say...
Yeah, nothing at all to do with UEFA years ago putting in quotas for homegrown players. *eyes spin out of sockets*
Lonewolves wrote:
Yeah, nothing at all to do with UEFA years ago putting in quotas for homegrown players. *eyes spin out of sockets*
I said get your HEAD on a swivel, soldier! FFS.
A very strong article over at politics.co.uk today:
http://politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/ ... t-s-sadism
Or, y'know, scaremongering and talking Britain down.
http://politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/ ... t-s-sadism
Or, y'know, scaremongering and talking Britain down.
Quote:
It will not happen. Nobody voted for a Darwinian survival challenge or to live like survivors of a nuclear holocaust. Even if the government attempted such lunacy, the economy would crash by the middle of January and the prime minister would return to Brussels to beg for a deal. In any event, there are (just) enough MPs still in command of their senses to insist on a deal and defeat the braying coalition of nihilists, liars and morons who will never accept one. Indeed, a people’s vote on Brexit could become the likeliest option in such a scenario.
Via the ever-reliable Ian Dunt, Comedy Central's Brexit (EDIT potentially NSFW due to the final bit*):
*
*
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
<sigh>
https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1 ... 1370853381
https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1 ... 1370853381
Chris Grayling on Brexit is every bit as bad as you thought it would be pic.twitter.com/8rt9DBjt3H
— Steve Peers (@StevePeers) August 15, 2018
Twitter once again demonstrating its peerless suitability for conveying complex messages via large amounts of text.
Hearthly wrote:
Twitter once again demonstrating its peerless suitability for conveying complex messages via large amounts of text.
In so far as, if this wasn't on Twitter it'd be behind the Telegraph paywall and I couldn't link to it? Seems like Twitter is working just fine.
Gaywood's leniency with Twitter posts is legendary.
They should just get rid of the character limit and let people effectively use it as forums. (Which is kind of that they do now, except really shit forums.)
Here it is in a more readable format. By Twitter's standards. Which isn't saying much.
Attachment:
Screenshot 2018-08-16 at 13.54.15.png
Attachment:
Screenshot 2018-08-16 at 13.54.26.png
How is that difficult to read? Presented using Twitter's threading interface, it forms a series of linked, short paragraphs. It's no harder to read there than it is to read a Beex post comprised of the same text.
And it's convenient that the name 'James Rothwell' is repeated 22 times, just in case I get especially forgetful.
Twitter is useful for some things, IOM Constabulary use it for traffic updates, road closures, missing persons, and stuff like that, it's especially useful over TT when things can change often, and quickly.
So I'm not 'anti-Twitter', but I'm anti it being used for the presentation of essays.
Twitter is useful for some things, IOM Constabulary use it for traffic updates, road closures, missing persons, and stuff like that, it's especially useful over TT when things can change often, and quickly.
So I'm not 'anti-Twitter', but I'm anti it being used for the presentation of essays.
Attachment:
Screenshot 2018-08-16 at 14.11.40.png
Then maybe stop reading them? I dunno what to tell you man. You can shout at the world to stop doing things you hate, if you want, but it's not likely to change anything.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Then maybe stop reading them? I dunno what to tell you man. You can shout at the world to stop doing things you hate, if you want, but it's not likely to change anything.
By that rationale, shouldn't you stop posting anything about Brexit?
Bamba wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Then maybe stop reading them? I dunno what to tell you man. You can shout at the world to stop doing things you hate, if you want, but it's not likely to change anything.
By that rationale, shouldn't you stop posting anything about Brexit?
Touché.
Who does Grayling have dirt on? He’s failed miserably at every single job he has had, and is a contender for Worst Ever in multiple Cabinet posts. How does he keep on failing upwards?
Curiosity wrote:
Who does Grayling have dirt on? He’s failed miserably at every single job he has had, and is a contender for Worst Ever in multiple Cabinet posts. How does he keep on failing upwards?
Boris was made foreign secretary despite being utterly unsuitable for that (or indeed any) role and had to actually resign rather than being fired. Similarly, David David was demonstrably useless as Brexit Secretary but he also was left to resign. Jeremy Hunt is now Foreign Secretary after being fucking terrible at the many roles which preceded that.
This isn't a 'Grayling' question; it's an overall Tory party mystery.
Grim... wrote:
Gaywood's leniency with Twitter posts is legendary.
Wasn't lying!
A New Leak Reveals 84 Areas Of British Life The UK Government Thinks Will Be Affected If It Doesn't Get A Brexit Deal - copied from -
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/a-n ... .gkVm7Pegq
Air services
Animal breeding
Aviation safety
Aviation security
Batch testing of medicine
Blood safety
Broadcasting
Chemicals regulation
Civil judicial cooperation
Civil nuclear
Climate
Commercial road haulage
Common Travel Area
Company law
Competition
Consumer protection
Cross-border gas trading
Customs and borders
Data
Driver licensing
Drugs
e-Commerce and geo-blocking
Electricity trading
Environmental standards
Equine movements
Erasmus
EU citizens in the UK
EU programmes and structural funds
EU space programmes
European regional development fund
European social fund
Export control regulation
Fertilisers
Financial services
Firearms
Fisheries, fish and seafood
Fluorinated gases and Ozone depleting substances
Food labelling
Genetically modified organisms
Geographical indicators
Health and identification marks for products of animal origin
Horizon 2020
Imports of food and feed
Insolvency
Intellectual property
Life sciences
Live animals and animal products
Maritime security
Motor insurance
New car and van CO2 emissions
NGOs
Nuclear research
Objects of cultural interest
Oil and gas
Organic food production
Organs, tissue, and cells
Passports
Payments to farmers
Pesticides regulations
Pet travel
Plants and seeds
Procurement
Product regulation
Registration of veterinary medicines
Renewable electricity issues
Rural Development Programme for England
Seafarer certification
Services
State aid
Telecoms
Timber trade
Tobacco
Trade agreements continuity
Trade in endangered species
Trade remedies
Trans-European energy infrastructure
UK citizens in the EU
UK LIFE projects
UK trade tariff
Upholding industrial emissions
VAT
Vehicle standards
Veterinary medicine products
Workplace rights
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/a-n ... .gkVm7Pegq
Air services
Animal breeding
Aviation safety
Aviation security
Batch testing of medicine
Blood safety
Broadcasting
Chemicals regulation
Civil judicial cooperation
Civil nuclear
Climate
Commercial road haulage
Common Travel Area
Company law
Competition
Consumer protection
Cross-border gas trading
Customs and borders
Data
Driver licensing
Drugs
e-Commerce and geo-blocking
Electricity trading
Environmental standards
Equine movements
Erasmus
EU citizens in the UK
EU programmes and structural funds
EU space programmes
European regional development fund
European social fund
Export control regulation
Fertilisers
Financial services
Firearms
Fisheries, fish and seafood
Fluorinated gases and Ozone depleting substances
Food labelling
Genetically modified organisms
Geographical indicators
Health and identification marks for products of animal origin
Horizon 2020
Imports of food and feed
Insolvency
Intellectual property
Life sciences
Live animals and animal products
Maritime security
Motor insurance
New car and van CO2 emissions
NGOs
Nuclear research
Objects of cultural interest
Oil and gas
Organic food production
Organs, tissue, and cells
Passports
Payments to farmers
Pesticides regulations
Pet travel
Plants and seeds
Procurement
Product regulation
Registration of veterinary medicines
Renewable electricity issues
Rural Development Programme for England
Seafarer certification
Services
State aid
Telecoms
Timber trade
Tobacco
Trade agreements continuity
Trade in endangered species
Trade remedies
Trans-European energy infrastructure
UK citizens in the EU
UK LIFE projects
UK trade tariff
Upholding industrial emissions
VAT
Vehicle standards
Veterinary medicine products
Workplace rights
Bloody typical of a tory government putting workplace rights at the bottom of their list of concerns.
Beex isn't on the list, we're safe.
Trooper wrote:
Beex isn't on the list, we're safe.
That's a relief!
I can't think back to the last time I heard 'eCommerce' used.
Four_Candles wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Beex isn't on the list, we're safe.
That's a relief!
We're going to ban Miki and Romanista.
Erasmus. Microman?
Hi, RackSpace? Yeah, we need our markg rebooting. Yeah, soon as you can. Thanks!
We're banning the Scots and Cornish too, right?
Four_Candles wrote:
A New Leak Reveals 84 Areas Of British Life The UK Government Thinks Will Be Affected If It Doesn't Get A Brexit Deal - copied from -
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/a-n ... .gkVm7Pegq
Air services
Animal breeding
Aviation safety
Aviation security
Batch testing of medicine
Blood safety
Broadcasting
Chemicals regulation
Civil judicial cooperation
Civil nuclear
Climate
Commercial road haulage
Common Travel Area
Company law
Competition
Consumer protection
Cross-border gas trading
Customs and borders
Data
Driver licensing
Drugs
e-Commerce and geo-blocking
Electricity trading
Environmental standards
Equine movements
Erasmus
EU citizens in the UK
EU programmes and structural funds
EU space programmes
European regional development fund
European social fund
Export control regulation
Fertilisers
Financial services
Firearms
Fisheries, fish and seafood
Fluorinated gases and Ozone depleting substances
Food labelling
Genetically modified organisms
Geographical indicators
Health and identification marks for products of animal origin
Horizon 2020
Imports of food and feed
Insolvency
Intellectual property
Life sciences
Live animals and animal products
Maritime security
Motor insurance
New car and van CO2 emissions
NGOs
Nuclear research
Objects of cultural interest
Oil and gas
Organic food production
Organs, tissue, and cells
Passports
Payments to farmers
Pesticides regulations
Pet travel
Plants and seeds
Procurement
Product regulation
Registration of veterinary medicines
Renewable electricity issues
Rural Development Programme for England
Seafarer certification
Services
State aid
Telecoms
Timber trade
Tobacco
Trade agreements continuity
Trade in endangered species
Trade remedies
Trans-European energy infrastructure
UK citizens in the EU
UK LIFE projects
UK trade tariff
Upholding industrial emissions
VAT
Vehicle standards
Veterinary medicine products
Workplace rights
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/a-n ... .gkVm7Pegq
Air services
Animal breeding
Aviation safety
Aviation security
Batch testing of medicine
Blood safety
Broadcasting
Chemicals regulation
Civil judicial cooperation
Civil nuclear
Climate
Commercial road haulage
Common Travel Area
Company law
Competition
Consumer protection
Cross-border gas trading
Customs and borders
Data
Driver licensing
Drugs
e-Commerce and geo-blocking
Electricity trading
Environmental standards
Equine movements
Erasmus
EU citizens in the UK
EU programmes and structural funds
EU space programmes
European regional development fund
European social fund
Export control regulation
Fertilisers
Financial services
Firearms
Fisheries, fish and seafood
Fluorinated gases and Ozone depleting substances
Food labelling
Genetically modified organisms
Geographical indicators
Health and identification marks for products of animal origin
Horizon 2020
Imports of food and feed
Insolvency
Intellectual property
Life sciences
Live animals and animal products
Maritime security
Motor insurance
New car and van CO2 emissions
NGOs
Nuclear research
Objects of cultural interest
Oil and gas
Organic food production
Organs, tissue, and cells
Passports
Payments to farmers
Pesticides regulations
Pet travel
Plants and seeds
Procurement
Product regulation
Registration of veterinary medicines
Renewable electricity issues
Rural Development Programme for England
Seafarer certification
Services
State aid
Telecoms
Timber trade
Tobacco
Trade agreements continuity
Trade in endangered species
Trade remedies
Trans-European energy infrastructure
UK citizens in the EU
UK LIFE projects
UK trade tariff
Upholding industrial emissions
VAT
Vehicle standards
Veterinary medicine products
Workplace rights
I don't see how any of that will affect the everyday man on the street though. Project Fear is all that is.
Hearthly wrote:
Attachment:
Screenshot 2018-08-16 at 14.11.40.png
"A little boy has been lost"
"The child has now been found, thank you"
"A child has been lodged in the tunnel of goats"
Trooper wrote:
Beex isn't on the list, we're safe.
The railways are fine too!
MaliA wrote:
Bloody typical of a tory government putting workplace rights at the bottom of their list of concerns.
