iPad

Zardoz · **Posted:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 17:18

Yeah, "Over".

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

I'm interested in what % of iPad owners will own an iPhone (after the fanboy first rush). Because if it is high enough that might lead to lots of syncing tech between the two.

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

The iPad's CPU and RAM assembly is very compact but very expensive. But the iPad has a fair bit of space in it! So why not use cheaper parts? People are seeing this as a possible sign the iPhone v4 will have the same CPU as the iPad. This seems like good reasoning to me.

Makes sense - but I would expect them to want to differentiate their line more than that.

Maybe they are working towards a system where year old iPad tech gets repurposed to current iPhone tech or something.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Dr Lave wrote:

Makes sense - but I would expect them to want to differentiate their line more than that.

They are different form factors and different sales models. They're different enough. Better to harmonise them for the developer convenience.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Dr Lave wrote:

Makes sense - but I would expect them to want to differentiate their line more than that.

They are different form factors and different sales models. They're different enough. Better to harmonise them for the developer convenience.

Indeed maybe. But expensive.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Not really. This way they only order one sort of mobile CPU for the next year.

kalmar · **Posted:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 17:42

Dr Lave wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Dr Lave wrote:

Makes sense - but I would expect them to want to differentiate their line more than that.

They are different form factors and different sales models. They're different enough. Better to harmonise them for the developer convenience.

Indeed maybe. But expensive.

Chips are cheaper the more you make / buy.

By putting the identical components in the two devices, the BOM is probably cheaper than doing two separate designs with less fancy chips on the iPad.

Not to mention the design savings by getting two new systems out of one core bit of hardware. Very sensible.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

'Course they might downclock the iPhone's CPU for power consumption reasons, although running a 1Ghz chip isn't doing the new Android handsets much harm.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

kalmar wrote:

Any word on UK pricing?

Take the US pricing and stick a "£" sign in front of it.

myp · **Posted:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 17:47

Four hundred dollarpounds!!!!

Malabelm · **Posted:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 17:47

Cool. iPad's Mobile Safari supports orientation in CSS links, as such:

Code:

<link rel=”stylesheet” media=”all and (orientation:portrait)” href=”portrait.css”>
<link rel=”stylesheet” media=”all and (orientation:landscape)” href=”landscape.css”>

The iPhone version doesn't, apparently.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Aye - thats pretty convincing, sensible and good from a sync point of view. As there should be no app that can't run and sync from phone to Pad - apart from the massive UI and screen rez differences.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22294

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Nope. Which is very odd. Still a vague "late April" release date too.

No comment on the iBook store for the UK either, I wonder if that is linked...

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Trooper wrote:

No comment on the iBook store for the UK either, I wonder if that is linked...

No, I doubt it. I think the vagueness about international release dates was Apple hedging their bets about stock levels; if it tanked in the US they could bring the UK date forward, if it sold out they could push it back and divert more stock to America. I think the lack of iBooks on the UK iPad pages isn't ambiguous at all; I think it's not going to be on the UK ones because of rights issues. The UK Kindle store has 350,000 books compared the US store's 470,000, and Amazon have had a few years to work on the rights.

chinnyhill10 wrote:

Take the US pricing and stick a "£" sign in front of it.

$500=£400, I reckon. It's £386 if you convert the currency and add VAT. A $999 Macbook (exactly twice the iPad) becomes £816 right now, which suggests a £400-410 iPad price.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22294

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Trooper wrote:

No comment on the iBook store for the UK either, I wonder if that is linked...

No, I doubt it. I think the vagueness about international release dates was Apple hedging their bets about stock levels; if it tanked in the US they could bring the UK date forward, if it sold out they could push it back and divert more stock to America. I think the lack of iBooks on the UK iPad pages isn't ambiguous at all; I think it's not going to be on the UK ones because of rights issues. The UK Kindle store has 350,000 books compared the US store's 470,000, and Amazon have had a few years to work on the rights.

I fear you are right, and unfortunately, no UK iBook means no buying for Mr Trooper.

I wonder if the reader software will be on the device at all, I'm assuming not even though you are supposedly allowed to upload your own books to the device.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

I bet it'll be £429.

End of an Era · **Joined:** 25th Nov, 2008 **Posts:** 1041

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

The UK Kindle store has 350,000 books compared the US store's 470,000.

Wow. Just wow. Given an average of the books available in both the UK and US and a (made up number by me of 1% of those books that are actually worth reading, rather then the ones I'd like to read) that would make 4100 books to be read and that's greater than 1 book per week if I live to 70, not counting the first 2 decades I spent on this planet being an idiot!

Holy shit, I need somebody to invent a temporal warp so I can disappear for a minute, read all these books, and then come back with new found knowledge!

GazChap · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:21

A friend in the US offered to ship one to me for £418 all-in, not including any customs fees I might end up paying.

I'm critically low on funds though. Bugger.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:23

GazChap wrote:

A friend in the US offered to ship one to me for £418 all-in, not including any customs fees I might end up paying.

Bundlebox are doing it for £465.20, which includes all fees and taxes.

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:25

Isn't £418 significantly more than the buying price? I get £330 for a direct conversion..

Ok, insured carriage is probably a bit. You need someone who's coming over on holiday or something. If only we knew people like that...

markh · **Joined:** 13th Oct, 2008 **Posts:** 903

My missus has gone out to the US today for 2 weeks - do you reckon it's worth getting her to try and get one, or will there be a load of regional differences and faffing around?

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

kalmar wrote:

Isn't £418 significantly more than the buying price? I get £330 for a direct conversion..

Adding on 17.5% VAT gets you £388. Anything above that is either profiteering by an evil corporation or a reflection of the higher costs of servicing smaller markets (delete according to your sympathies and biases).

Edit -- oh, you were talking about the import service, not the possible Apple UK pricing. Yes, you're right then.

And I'm in the US from May 2nd-8th. :DD

markh wrote:

My missus has gone out to the US today for 2 weeks - do you reckon it's worth getting her to try and get one, or will there be a load of regional differences and faffing around?

No regional differences except for the charger plug -- although it's a generic power brick with a regional end bit, so that's not a big deal. She might find it hard to get stock though.

GazChap · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:04

Don't forget insured shipping from the US to the UK as well, that's not going to be cheap.

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:05

I didn't, see my post

It still shouldn't be the thick end of a hundred quid though.

Doc, you could smuggle one back for yourself without paying import on it, I assume? Bringing one for someone else is going to be dicey though

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

If you know how to buy US currency at the prevailing Google rate without paying any commission I'd like to know how. If you don't, better add on 3-5% or so to reflect the conversion costs.

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:10

Well that's a given. It's probably a tenner or so on top.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

kalmar wrote:

Doc, you could smuggle one back for yourself without paying import on it, I assume? Bringing one for someone else is going to be dicey though

Note that Grim... and I both own Kindles, ever since I last came home from the US.

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:12

"It's not a brand new ipad, it's my iphone, I'm just freakishly small see?"

GazChap · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:22

kalmar wrote:

Doc, you could smuggle one back for yourself without paying import on it, I assume? Bringing one for someone else is going to be dicey though

And of course, don't forget that by May 2nd we should be able to buy iPads natively anyway.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

GazChap wrote:

And of course, don't forget that by May 2nd we should be able to buy iPads natively anyway.

...for 20-25% more money of course.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:26

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

GazChap wrote:

And of course, don't forget that by May 2nd we should be able to buy iPads natively anyway.

...for 20-25% more money of course.

[citation needed]
We should have a sweepstake.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/07/ipad ... -unleashed

Some really neat shit in there.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 17:05

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/07/ipad-apps-creativity-unleashed

Some really neat shit in there.

Do you know, I'm not that impressed with any of those. And some of them are silly expensive.

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 17:10

I'm keen to try out the drawing apps. The iphone screen just isn't big enough to get an idea of how well (or badly) it works.

Malabelm · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 22:52

Mobile Safari purging pages on the iPad (a problem both the 2G and 3G iPhones suffered heavily from) is very much putting me off considering a first-gen model. Unless they can somehow find a software workaround, anyway.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Malabar Front wrote:

Mobile Safari purging pages on the iPad (a problem both the 2G and 3G iPhones suffered heavily from) is very much putting me off considering a first-gen model.

Wait. What?

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49233

Seconded - what does "purging pages" mean?

Malabelm · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 23:03

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Malabar Front wrote:

Mobile Safari purging pages on the iPad (a problem both the 2G and 3G iPhones suffered heavily from) is very much putting me off considering a first-gen model.

Wait. What?

Perhaps explained badly, there. Surprise surprise, lately – I seem to be stringing together massively incoherent sentences.

Pages being forcedly refreshed when you have multiple tabs open and switch between them. This problem irked me a lot on the 3G, and is very much improved on the 3GS. The iPad's lack of RAM brings the problem back.

Here's John Gruber of Daring Fireball on it:

Quote:

There’s one severe problem in Safari for iPad, though: memory crapping out. MobileSafari for iPhone has always allowed you to open up to eight pages at a time. It tries to keep them all truly open, in RAM, so that you can quickly switch between them. But when it runs out of memory it starts flushing some of the pages. It doesn’t forget the URL for those pages, and, in recent versions, it saves a static thumbnail image of the rendered page, but when you switch back to those purged pages, MobileSafari must reload the page — thus, you must wait both for the contents of the page to download and for the page to actually render (which — the rendering — often takes longer than the downloading). It’s very noticeable. Switching between unpurged Safari pages is instantaneous. Switching to a purged page takes as long as opening it from scratch.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

I knew exactly what you meant, but the iPad has 256Mb of RAM, as does the 3GS. The previous iPhones had half of that. So I don't think it'll be a problem on the iPad.

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 23:04

Yes, that's how it works... But.. so?

Malabelm · **Posted:** Wed Apr 07, 2010 23:07

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

I knew exactly what you meant, but the iPad has 256Mb of RAM, as does the 3GS. The previous iPhones had half of that. So I don't think it'll be a problem on the iPad.

The greater screen size seems to be throwing a curveball at that one, though; Gruber's reporting regular flushing of pages when only two tabs are open, with him losing half-filled forms several times while switching to another page for a copy-and-paste. I do such things regularly on my phone.

I'll keep my eye on it.

GazChap · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:20

Safari on my 3GS always reloads a page when I switch to it, I didn't know it was doing that because it was out of memory.

Odd.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Just 256Mb of ram‽ I've been fine with my 3GS but I expected an upgrade over that. Makes you wonder how advanced the 4th gen iPhone will be.

Pushing me towards waiting for the second gen. (Not that being skint has anything to do with that....)

Still I would take the 10hrs-being-an-understatement battery over more welly to be honest.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

I see what you mean, now, Malabar. That's a bit shit. I wonder if iPhone OS4 will bring some software optimisations to alleviate this.

I'm surprised the iPad doesn't have 512Mb. I wonder if this is going to become a problem in the coming months. Personally, I'd like to run Lightroom or Aperture on one; I think they'd be great for on-the-move photo editing and upload.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:09

GazChap wrote:

Safari on my 3GS always reloads a page when I switch to it, I didn't know it was doing that because it was out of memory.

Odd.

Ditto, and it can be VERY annoying, such as going back to a page I opened, hoping to read it as it's a massive wodge of text, only for Safari to try and refresh the page and then realise that I have no signal.

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

Curiosity wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Safari on my 3GS always reloads a page when I switch to it, I didn't know it was doing that because it was out of memory.

Odd.

Ditto, and it can be VERY annoying, such as going back to a page I opened, hoping to read it as it's a massive wodge of text, only for Safari to try and refresh the page and then realise that I have no signal.

Thats crap.

Have you tried instapaper? I find it excellent for reading stuff on the iPhone. You install a bookmark in safari, then when you click it it copies the text (not the guff) to your (free) instapaper account. Then your instapaper app(free with ads, or £3 without) can download it for offline, super easy browsing.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Instapaper is totally ace.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:26

I do have Instapaper (the free version anyway) as it syncs well with Tweetie.

There's something about it that annoys me though... but I can't remember what. I have saved a few links in the past few days, so I'll see if I can remember what it is when I try to access them.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Instapaper's Kindle support is even better than the iPhone app.

Malabelm · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:40

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

I see what you mean, now, Malabar. That's a bit shit. I wonder if iPhone OS4 will bring some software optimisations to alleviate this.

I'm surprised the iPad doesn't have 512Mb. I wonder if this is going to become a problem in the coming months. Personally, I'd like to run Lightroom or Aperture on one; I think they'd be great for on-the-move photo editing and upload.

Indeed. When it pushes out >5 times the pixel count and supposedly offers potential for much more complex programs and suites, it's a curious decision to keep the RAM the same as the 3GS has, especially considering it relies entirely on physical RAM for such storage.

What firmware is the iPad running right now, then? Same version as the iPhone?

Instapaper is great, I agree. I use it heavily on my phone and computer, and have safely said in the past ‘I couldn't live without this now’. I'm happy to stick with that.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Malabar Front wrote:

Indeed. When it pushes out >5 times the pixel count

Although not if the rumours of an iPhone v4 with a 960x640 screen at true. I wouldn't give that any credit but Gruber seems confident.

Quote:

and supposedly offers potential for much more complex programs and suites, it's a curious decision to keep the RAM the same as the 3GS has, especially considering it relies entirely on physical RAM for such storage.

Concur.

Quote:

What firmware is the iPad running right now, then? Same version as the iPhone?

No, v3.2, which is an iPad-only fork of iPhone OS. I expect the iPhone to continue on the v3.1 branch now, and for the devices to unify in v4.

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