Heh. Just realised the irony. Heath took us into Europe but is best remembered for the lights going out; May tries to take us out and becomes remembered for the lights going out.
This is also APoD's view.
I don't think public opinion can be shifted that far in the little time we have left. Especially given the public's ability to ignore the thus far entirely accurate warnings of economic disaster.
I don't think public opinion can be shifted that far in the little time we have left. Especially given the public's ability to ignore the thus far entirely accurate warnings of economic disaster.
We forget how hated the old rates* were, and how any new scheme was expected to be really popular. It was only when the first poll tax bills came through that people started to realise its immense flaws. And thus became the only major policy I can think of that was passed, enacted, and repealed in the same electoral cycle.
* Not in the naval sense.
* Not in the naval sense.
The poll tax really brought home the dichotomy of definitions of the word 'fair'
Was it more fair for provision of council services to cost more to homes with more occupants? Yes, of course, that's just common sense.
But was it more fair for provision of council services to cost more to homes with more occupants? Quite obviously and plainly not, of course.
Was it more fair for provision of council services to cost more to homes with more occupants? Yes, of course, that's just common sense.
But was it more fair for provision of council services to cost more to homes with more occupants? Quite obviously and plainly not, of course.
Nicely put.
Perhaps the same applies to 'sovereignty' or 'control'.
Perhaps the same applies to 'sovereignty' or 'control'.
Cras wrote:
This is also APoD's view.
I don't think public opinion can be shifted that far in the little time we have left. Especially given the public's ability to ignore the thus far entirely accurate warnings of economic disaster.
I don't think public opinion can be shifted that far in the little time we have left. Especially given the public's ability to ignore the thus far entirely accurate warnings of economic disaster.
“View” is putting it strongly. “Hope” is more accurate.
Kern wrote:
Called it.
Crash the country; make people demand a rethink.
Unfortunately, I don't trust her to do this competently, nor the Conservative Party to find a replacement who wouldn't accept that the fault lied with the idea rather than just the execution.
Crash the country; make people demand a rethink.
Unfortunately, I don't trust her to do this competently, nor the Conservative Party to find a replacement who wouldn't accept that the fault lied with the idea rather than just the execution.
Yep, I'd love to think this is all some part of a cunning plan to make the public realise it's a stupid idea.
Unfortunately I think it's more likely that we'll end up leaving with no deal, then go crawling back a few years later and rejoin on worse terms.
Another excellent post from Chris Grey. He mentions that recent poll where 51% of people said they believe no deal is better than a bad deal. I’ve often wondered what those people think no deal means. When you dig into the shrieking commenters on Twitter, they usually fall back to “but of course medicines will still arrive and planes will still fly and we’ll go to Spain on holiday, like before we joined the EU” ie. they think ‘no deal’ is ‘quite a lot of deal actually.’ It’s so frustrating.
https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/sta ... 42305?s=21
https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/sta ... 42305?s=21
Raab's first full week as Chief Brexit Guy is going well
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/10 ... 4861692928
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/10 ... 4861692928
Raab has just confirmed that there will have to be food stockpiling for a hard Brexit, although he emphasises it would mainly be done by industry rather than government
— Jim Pickard (@PickardJE) July 24, 2018
I had to be cajoled and escorted out of one of my local restaurants last night when I spotted Dominic Cummings at a nearby table. The urge to render him to a bloody pulp was frighteningly (for HC, who had to ask me to leave before I went and beat him senseless) powerful. I'm not normally prone to violence at all, but he's one of an increasingly large number of cunts involved in fucking over the country for Brexit that I find myself wistfully imagining great harm upon.
Yeah. I'd have reacted similarly.
Meanwhile, in bullshit coming out of Raab's mouth news, we have gone from "Brexit is gonna be great" to "Well, Brexit certainly won't leave you with inadequate food."
https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status ... 2884249602
Meanwhile, in bullshit coming out of Raab's mouth news, we have gone from "Brexit is gonna be great" to "Well, Brexit certainly won't leave you with inadequate food."
https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status ... 2884249602
BREAKING: Raab promises government will "make sure there is adequate food" in Britain in the event of no Brexit deal. But says it is wrong to say government itself is stockpiling.
— lisa o'carroll (@lisaocarroll) July 24, 2018
Is it Civil War time yet?
Sigh
https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/10 ... 9048153090
https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/10 ... 9048153090
This is fantasyland: "industry" doesn't have capacity to stockpile – most factories need delivery of raw materials every 24 hours to produce, and only have space to store 24 hours of output. The whole industry works on a just-in-time basis. This is nonsense on stilts. https://t.co/Cij4K2X8qi
— James Ball (@jamesrbuk) July 24, 2018
Raab's not even in charge of Brexit anymore, Theresa May's office is taking over and Raab will deputise if needs be.
Still "nonsense on stilts" is a great phrase.
Oh I wasn't disputing that at all. It just seems even more silly having a new brexit minister and then immediately telling them they are not trusted to do brexit.
Good old Private Eye
Zardoz wrote:
Is it Civil War time yet?
The Union forever!
Cras wrote:
Good old Private Eye
Have you had that one delivered already? I don't have that one yet.
No, saw it up on Twitter
https://twitter.com/commonshealth/statu ... 1323553792
“Substances of human origin” are blood and organs, BTW.
.@MattHancock : "The department is working up options with industry for stockpiling medicines, medical devices and substances of human origin in the case of a no-deal Brexit. Obviously there will be a cost for this."
— Health and Social Care Committee (@CommonsHealth) July 24, 2018
“Substances of human origin” are blood and organs, BTW.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
“Substances of human origin”
Title of your Brexit sextape.
I wonder if 'stockpiling food' and 'shortage of blood supplies' were top of people's lists when they were ticking the box to leave the EU in the referendum.
Fucking Cameron, all of this shit just so he could appease the nutcases in the Tory party.
Fucking Cameron, all of this shit just so he could appease the nutcases in the Tory party.
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
“Substances of human origin”
Title of your Brextape.
BREEX
So in the morning, there are announcements that paying pensions to ex-pats could be a problem after Brexit and in the afternoon there's a plan to stock up on blood and organs? Is there a plan to lure ex-pats back to the UK to chop them up?
Good, I ain’t having no forrin blood.
Unless it’s xenomorph.
Unless it’s xenomorph.
The single leaflet I got from my MP during the whole election campaign last year (a timely four days before the vote) said that 'the decision has been made and there's no turning back'.
Is there a way I can ask her if this is what she wanted without making me sound completely sarcastic?
Is there a way I can ask her if this is what she wanted without making me sound completely sarcastic?
devilman wrote:
So in the morning, there are announcements that paying pensions to ex-pats could be a problem after Brexit and in the afternoon there's a plan to stock up on blood and organs? Is there a plan to lure ex-pats back to the UK to chop them up?
It'd be the first example of some coherent thinking since this entire clusterfuck started, so I'm saying probably not.
I'm beginning to think it's time to start the BEEX political party. We may be too late to stop the massive civil unrest coming next year — but I've been working out in the last 12 months and I already have an axe, so hey-ho.
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
“Substances of human origin”
Title of your Brexit sextape.
I'd have gone with "Blood and Organs".
Good piece about Rees-Mogg's manoeuvrings.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... g-dividend
Also him saying that the 'Brexit dividend' might take 50 years to materialise....
Moggivend
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... g-dividend
Quote:
Rees-Mogg’s hedge fund, Somerset Capital Management, is managed via subsidiaries in the tax havens of the Cayman Islands and Singapore. He has defended the use of such tax havens, saying “I do not believe people have any obligation to pay more tax than the law requires.” And the laws that look set to stand in the way are planned new EU regulations aimed at governing the behaviour of companies such as his own.
Also him saying that the 'Brexit dividend' might take 50 years to materialise....
Moggivend
I'm quite sure that our four year old daughter's future children's generation will have so much prosperity that they'll to turn to erecting huge gold Rees-Mogg statues all over the place just to find a way to spend it all.
What an utter fucking cunt.
What an utter fucking cunt.
Remember Poll Tax? A government manifesto policy which sounded OK enough when described to win a mandate, but then turned out to be so hideously difficult to implment that it was rapidly rolled back after toppling the Prime Minister who proposed it.
Anthony King & Ivor Crewe's superb work 'The Blunders of our Governments' is a great read, but the best case study of a single political fuck-up is David Butler, Andrew ('Lord') Adonis, and Tony Travers' 'Failure in British Government: the politics of the poll tax' from 1994.
Rated 344 for 'organic chemistry' on the rainforest charts too.
Rated 344 for 'organic chemistry' on the rainforest charts too.
MaliA wrote:
I remember it very well. I was in the Police at the time, and could use my Warrant Card to be allowed to buy fuel.
The amount of friends asking me to take their cars to a garage to fill up was ridiculous.
Didn't we have more fuel shortages around 2003 as well?
<edit> 2005 apparently.
Leave.EU now rolling with, “We do more trade with the US than with the EU, and that is via WTO rules.”
Apart from we do far more (about double) trade with the EU, and our trade with the US is done according to the EU agreement that Donald Trump hates, and not via WTO.
There is no way in hell they don’t know this, and yet they get to be an official mouthpiece and people believe them. Madness.
Apart from we do far more (about double) trade with the EU, and our trade with the US is done according to the EU agreement that Donald Trump hates, and not via WTO.
There is no way in hell they don’t know this, and yet they get to be an official mouthpiece and people believe them. Madness.
It makes me genuinely angry that these routine lies aren't being challenged. I've managed to live most of my life without hatred, but I find myself feeling it time and time again as I see these smug, fatuous liars spoon-feeding this dangerous bullshit.
NervousPete wrote:
It makes me genuinely angry that these routine lies aren't being challenged. I've managed to live most of my life without hatred, but I find myself feeling it time and time again as I see these smug, fatuous liars spoon-feeding this dangerous bullshit.
But I'm finding myself getting annoyed with those that believe it without question too. 
Goddess Jasmine wrote:
NervousPete wrote:
It makes me genuinely angry that these routine lies aren't being challenged. I've managed to live most of my life without hatred, but I find myself feeling it time and time again as I see these smug, fatuous liars spoon-feeding this dangerous bullshit.
But I'm finding myself getting annoyed with those that believe it without question too. Especially when they then say that you’re naive if you DON’T believe Brexit will massively improve the economy.
One of my team semi-proudly stated he voted out because he doesn't like the EU the other day. Really intelligent 24 year old, but has no other argument in this case than 'doesn't like it.'
Completely halted me in my tracks.
Applied my new ilm level 3 qualification in leadership and management and changed the subject toot sweet.
Completely halted me in my tracks.
Applied my new ilm level 3 qualification in leadership and management and changed the subject toot sweet.
My concern is that those who voted for Brexit are also the type of people who don't really follow the news and won't have made themselves more aware of the stuff we'd lose by not being in the EU and the walking disasters that are the various leave campaigners. So if by some miracle there was a second referendum, they'd just vote in exactly the same way.
I thought I'd have a nose at some of the timelines of Facebook friends whose posts I'd blocked to see if they were ranting and raving about 'HARD BREXIT NOW!' and 'WHY HAVEN't WE LEFT YET?!' but their timelines are rather devoid of that stuff, when they were so bloody vocal for Brexit initially.
I thought I'd have a nose at some of the timelines of Facebook friends whose posts I'd blocked to see if they were ranting and raving about 'HARD BREXIT NOW!' and 'WHY HAVEN't WE LEFT YET?!' but their timelines are rather devoid of that stuff, when they were so bloody vocal for Brexit initially.
No one gave two shits about the EU until they got all riled up by the tabloids.
Gary Lineker is now calling for a second referendum, I think the voice of Walker's Crisps can break through to the Brexiteer fraternity of the general population.
He shat on a football pitch. He won’t convince me to stay in the EU.
Interesting to see the variety of Facebook ads used by Vote Leave and BeLeave.
devilman wrote:
Interesting to see the variety of Facebook ads used by Vote Leave and BeLeave.
I've just been looking at them - outright lies, manipulation and a number promoting xenophobia. In short, they're disgusting. The validity of the referendum needs examining real fast.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/liam-fox- ... may-2018-7
So the UK (which has announced it will stockpile "adequate" food and medicine to cover a no deal Brexit) is warning the EU (which has no need to stockpiling anything) of the dire consequences of no deal.
Quote:
[Liam Fox] warned the EU that a no deal will be the most likely outcome if it continued to be inflexible.
"The EU then need to tell us how they intend to get the frictionless borders that we want to see. So they can't keep rejecting things without telling us exactly what it is they want," Fox said.
"So negotiations will continue, and we'll want to know from them if they don't want that as a proposal, what do they want, because if they keep saying no to everything they will end up with no deal."
"The EU then need to tell us how they intend to get the frictionless borders that we want to see. So they can't keep rejecting things without telling us exactly what it is they want," Fox said.
"So negotiations will continue, and we'll want to know from them if they don't want that as a proposal, what do they want, because if they keep saying no to everything they will end up with no deal."
So the UK (which has announced it will stockpile "adequate" food and medicine to cover a no deal Brexit) is warning the EU (which has no need to stockpiling anything) of the dire consequences of no deal.