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And back to reality…

It is a shame that magicians have to turn to camera tricks but with that Masked Magician idiot on ITV telling everyone how the manual tricks are done then it was only a matter of time before magicians had to turn to electronics.

Misdirect #1 – The purpose of the second show on Friday was to misdirect everyone from the electronic answer to a “wisdom of the crowd” idea. It was nonsense. The first attempts by Derren’s team of psychics did no better than chance because they were guessing and doing the calculations.

Misdirect #2 – Remember Tyler, in Derren’s team of psychic helpers? He was removed from the team because he couldn’t do automatic writing and sat at the front to do the calculations. He was actually Derren’s confederate and all he did was listen to the lottery results as they came in (during one of their trial runs). Derren asked him to make two near ‘predictions’ and four correct ones. This gave the effect that the team are improving their abilities using automatic writing.

Misdirect #3 – On the Wednesday, Tyler is put back into the group with his job complete. This time Derren collects the papers himself, fakes doing the calculations and putting numbered balls into the tube. Again none of the team see actual calculations and Derren hurries out of the room to do the live event.

What actually happened…

Unfortunately, it was a camera trick using a split screen trick such as in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqAt2akPHJ8

“But he was using a hand-held camera,” you say.

Misdirect #4 – When Derren enters the empty studio he introduces two cameras. Actually, there were three. He uses the 2nd to introduce the 1st but when he cuts back to the 1st he is now using the 3rd camera on a steady tripod. The camera shake is added digitally to make it look as though he is using the 1st camera.

Using an overlay, as in the video above, it was easy to change the blank balls for ones marked with the correct numbers. You can see the point when the overlay is removed because one of the balls miraculously moves as in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hveA0V5lskg

A simple trick sexed up with today’s electronics.
Reply

Author:	Wullie [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:25 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Zio wrote: I have to say, I really, really like Derren Brown's stuff. He's just a proper, old school, entertaining magician. I know there's probably all sorts of cheap tricks he uses to pull off these stunts, but it's all done with such entertaining panache that I rather enjoy it all. he's one of the few magiciany types that I enjoy watching, some other magicians do spectactularly awesome stuff but the trick's ruined because their personality/style grates on me. Amusingly one of my favourite magicians is Jerry Sadowitz & his persona is a complete dickhead

Author:	markg [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Sadowitz is probably my favourite magician but I'm not sure if that's because he's also one of my favourite comedians.

Author:	TheAlbin0Kid [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:31 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: markg wrote: I reckon that it wasn't a live broadcast and he just did 14 million takes, then they just superimposed the telly footage from the other channel. Sure, 14 million 8-minute long recordings wouldn't take long to do He has used this method before though... I remember him deliberately tossing 10 heads in a row with a coin to "prove" something, but he revealed later that he actually just did take after take until it happened. Which was obvious, but still, it just shows he isn't above doing something the ultra-obvious and time-consuming way just to flummox us peeps who think he is too clever and sophisticated for that.

Author:	DBSnappa [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Tommy Cooper was the best magician

Author:	KovacsC [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
I liked Penn & Teller..

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Author:	kalmar [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
KovacsC wrote: I liked Penn & Teller.. Didn't one of them get mauled to death by their own tiger? No?

Author:	KovacsC [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Might be why they have not been on TV a while... on another note.... is House losing the plot?

Author:	DBSnappa [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
kalmar wrote: KovacsC wrote: I liked Penn & Teller.. Didn't one of them get mauled to death by their own tiger? No? Mauled close to death, I fink.

Author:	sinister agent [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
DBSnappa wrote: kalmar wrote: KovacsC wrote: I liked Penn & Teller.. Didn't one of them get mauled to death by their own tiger? No? Mauled close to death, I fink. In total silence, I presume.

Author:	devilman [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:49 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
I thought that was Siegfried and Roy?

Author:	DBSnappa [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
devilman wrote: I thought that was Siegfried and Roy? One scrawny camp over pompadoured Las Vegas magician is the same as all the others in my view. I think you're right though...

Author:	Wullie [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
markg wrote: Sadowitz is probably my favourite magician but I'm not sure if that's because he's also one of my favourite comedians. I enjoy his enthusiasm, he genuinely seems to love performing magic & behaving like a tube. DBSnappa wrote: Tommy Cooper was the best magician Aye, he's another favourite. I think I just like magicians that make me laugh & quite obviously enjoy what they do.

Author:	TheAlbin0Kid [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
DBSnappa wrote: kalmar wrote: KovacsC wrote: I liked Penn & Teller.. Didn't one of them get mauled to death by their own tiger? No? Mauled close to death, I fink. That was Siegfriend & Roy, Penn & Teller are still doing Vegas shows every night.

Author:	Curiosity [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 13:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
DBSnappa wrote: devilman wrote: I thought that was Siegfried and Roy? One scrawny camp over pompadoured Las Vegas magician is the same as all the others in my view. I think you're right though... Bah! Penn and Teller are marvellous. I agree with those who like Derren Brown for the showmanship. I went to see him live a while back and it was fantastic.

Author:	Mr Dave [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 21:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Well, Derren Brown started off sensible. The first two were a bit predictable. The coins were obvious the moment the two 'combinations' were revealed. (In order to get HHH without getting THH first, it needs to be the first three coins. Same system could be used for any combination, it;s just figuring out what the lprevious in the sequence was which would take a bit of working out expcept in simple cases (like HHH)) And now he seems to have turned to utter bollocks.

Author:	Curiosity [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 23:34 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Mr Dave wrote: Well, Derren Brown started off sensible. The first two were a bit predictable. The coins were obvious the moment the two 'combinations' were revealed. (In order to get HHH without getting THH first, it needs to be the first three coins. Same system could be used for any combination, it;s just figuring out what the lprevious in the sequence was which would take a bit of working out expcept in simple cases (like HHH)) And now he seems to have turned to utter bollocks. And it ended up being shite. I love Derren Brown. LOVE him. That was a show that would make Paul Daniels wince. It was terrible. Anyone who buys it hasn't looked at the internet in a week, and has no inquisitive cell in their entire body. Pathetic. I am absolutely gutted at him being so utterly, utterly shit.

Author:	nickachu [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 23:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Curiosity wrote: Mr Dave wrote: Well, Derren Brown started off sensible. The first two were a bit predictable. The coins were obvious the moment the two 'combinations' were revealed. (In order to get HHH without getting THH first, it needs to be the first three coins. Same system could be used for any combination, it;s just figuring out what the lprevious in the sequence was which would take a bit of working out expcept in simple cases (like HHH)) And now he seems to have turned to utter bollocks. And it ended up being shite. I love Derren Brown. LOVE him. That was a show that would make Paul Daniels wince. It was terrible. Anyone who buys it hasn't looked at the internet in a week, and has no inquisitive cell in their entire body. Pathetic. I am absolutely gutted at him being so utterly, utterly shit. It wasn't that bad. I enjoyed it. I like to think that he rigged the lottery.

Author:	Curiosity [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 0:25 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
nickachu wrote: Curiosity wrote: Mr Dave wrote: Well, Derren Brown started off sensible. The first two were a bit predictable. The coins were obvious the moment the two 'combinations' were revealed. (In order to get HHH without getting THH first, it needs to be the first three coins. Same system could be used for any combination, it;s just figuring out what the lprevious in the sequence was which would take a bit of working out expcept in simple cases (like HHH)) And now he seems to have turned to utter bollocks. And it ended up being shite. I love Derren Brown. LOVE him. That was a show that would make Paul Daniels wince. It was terrible. Anyone who buys it hasn't looked at the internet in a week, and has no inquisitive cell in their entire body. Pathetic. I am absolutely gutted at him being so utterly, utterly shit. It wasn't that bad. I enjoyed it. I like to think that he rigged the lottery. But everywhere on the internet showed that it was a cheap trick about 48 hours before the reveal... which was a pack of shit lies. Boo, Derren, boo!

Author:	IFeelAsleep [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 14:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
I can't help but think this whole Derren Brown thing would have been more impressive if he had shown us what he had predicted before hand bought a ticket with the numbers he predicted on and sat excitedly in front of the draw.

Author:	markg [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 15:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII

Author:	Curiosity [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 15:36 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
What does Youtube video show, please?

Author:	markg [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 15:38 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Curiosity wrote: What does Youtube video show, please? One of the Derren Brown's lottery balls move slightly between frames.

Author:	myp [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 15:38 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
FFS

Author:	Richard Dawkins [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 15:38 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
myp wrote: FFS

Author:	sdg [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 15:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: http://derrenbrownlotteryprediction.wordpress.com/ Theory 6 is my favourite.

Author:	Kern [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 15:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
superdupergill wrote: Theory 6 is my favourite. Does he still hear the drums?

Author:	kalmar [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 15:59 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
All those theories are fucking stupid apart from #5. P.S. Gill your Fajita looks lovely apart from the prawn and whatnot.

Author:	Bobbyaro [ Thu Sep 10, 2009 16:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Zio wrote: kalmar wrote: P.S. Gill your Fajita looks lovely apart from the prawn and whatnot. I bet Derren Brown is absolutely hating all this talking about him. It must be driving him mad!

Author:	Mr Dave [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Well, overall... The first trick might possibly be genuine. With something like that, you want to be predictable, and the 1,3,2,4 pattern is fairly typical there. The second one works on the same idea. The central one is the one I'd expect to be left. (If it wasn't staged, I'd also expect the cup to be slightly less crushable, just in case. But I doubt someone would do that without being safe, so staged is a distinct possibility) The coin trick was fairly obvious. Simple maths. The actual live lottery part gave the game away though. The camera was far too wobbly, as if to show it wasn't a camera trick (When it could just be a larger image cropped and shaked, the shaking wasn't natural) which naturally meant it was a camera trick. And of course the explanation was utter bollocks. Having disarmed us with the coin maths (which he didn't really explain) he basically says "this is similar" when it really, really isn't. No mathematical basis for it at all. Don't really know how he did the previous runs unless the people there were also in on the trick. Shame, as I'd seen another show of his on 4OD earlier today, as that really was quite astonishing. (And I used to piss his father off something rotten)

Author:	kalmar [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:16 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Mr Dave wrote: Well, Derren Brown started off sensible. The first two were a bit predictable. The coins were obvious the moment the two 'combinations' were revealed. (In order to get HHH without getting THH first, it needs to be the first three coins. Same system could be used for any combination, it;s just figuring out what the lprevious in the sequence was which would take a bit of working out expcept in simple cases (like HHH)) And now he seems to have turned to utter bollocks. So the lottery thing. Did I predict it correctly?

Author:	metalangel [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
kalmar wrote: So the lottery thing. Did I predict it correctly? Yeah. Tessie Hutchinson 'won'.

Author:	Mr Dave [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
kalmar wrote: Mr Dave wrote: Well, Derren Brown started off sensible. The first two were a bit predictable. The coins were obvious the moment the two 'combinations' were revealed. (In order to get HHH without getting THH first, it needs to be the first three coins. Same system could be used for any combination, it;s just figuring out what the lprevious in the sequence was which would take a bit of working out expcept in simple cases (like HHH)) And now he seems to have turned to utter bollocks. So the lottery thing. Did I predict it correctly? In the right area, but not quite. I'm fairly sure the left side of the screen got frozen. They tried to hide this by showing a 2nd camera view as he entered the room showing the first camera to be handheld. The first camera then wobbled to suggest it was shoulder held, and couldn't be camera trickery because they can't use a wobbly shot for that. But when was the last time you saw a camera wobble round very noticably? Doesn't happen during things like the F1 grid walk, and news stories, so the camera wobble was deliberate. I think it must've been a smaller frame within what the camera saw wobbled around. Which would match up with the manner in which it wobbled. At the beginning, he deliberately walked round it to show it was a live shot, but then stood away from it. On the 4od video, the artifacting on the floor means you can't really pay attention to the (excessively shiny) floor to spot any wrongdoing. He claimed to do it by getting people to subconciously write down numbers and then average them(The part I was talking about it being bollocks). And then planted the notion that if he didn't do that, then he must've fixed it, which would be illegal. REading back through the thread to find your prediction, I spotted a video showing the balls move over a frame, which would seem to confirm my theory, and I also found this: chinnyhill10 wrote: Craster poster in makeover shocker: Even despite a wig, she still looks more manly than Craster.

Author:	Kern [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: I think he's excellent in general. I was disappointed in last nights show. Next week had better be better. The problem with the programme was getting over the shock of 'Derren Brown just predicted the lottery' . Wednesday night's show was an excellent stunt, and the brief slot given over to it added to the tension.. Promising to show us how he did, and then not doing so, meant Friday's special was all a bit of an anticlimax. The individual routines were ok, but would have been more satsifying if they had not been done under the 'I did it this way' banner. But his showmanship, especially on Wednesday, was excellent as always. I've just promoted him to the roles of foreign secretary and minister for war in my fantasy cabinet.

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Kern wrote: But his showmanship, especially on Wednesday, was excellent as always. I very much enjoyed his "this is how I could have rigged it, but I didn't, but if I did, which I didn't, I would do this, which I didn't" bit. In fact it was the highlight of the show for me.

Author:	Mr Dave [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Mr Dave wrote: (If it wasn't staged, I'd also expect the cup to be slightly less crushable, just in case. But I doubt someone would do that without being safe, so staged is a distinct possibility) Brown's always been adamant he doesn't use stooges; too much risk of them selling their story to the Sun for £100k, he says. He may have a point. Well, as I said, the trick is fairly simple. When scared, people aren't going to try to avoid what you'd predict them to do, and so the central cup is the one they'd miss (also handily 13). I didn't check what the pattern at the halfway mark was, so I don't know. I'd guess central ones were still left. And as I said, even if the person went wrong, I'm sure the mouse was in no danger. Quote: Quote: The coin trick was fairly obvious. Simple maths. Is it? I couldn't do it in my head and haven't bothered to write it down so far. Aye, it was very simple to figure out with the coins given. With HHH, unless you get the H's all in a row to begin with, there's no way of getting three Hs without a T preceeding. I also haven't done the maths, but I can see that there would be a sequence likely to preceed the first one chosen, and so be reached before the first sequence. I don't know how to explain it, but I find the theory fairly intuitive. Quote: Quote: And of course the explanation was utter bollocks. Having disarmed us with the coin maths (which he didn't really explain) he basically says "this is similar" when it really, really isn't. No mathematical basis for it at all. Don't really know how he did the previous runs unless the people there were also in on the trick. I was thinking, lots of groups they shot. Wouldn't have to work too hard to get a group to get a few numbers right. Well, the simplest explanation. The firswt run was pure probability. Getting one isn't all that unlikely, and he could've run with 0 instead had that occured. My suspicion is that the subconcious writing was a front to get one person who apparently couldn't do it - presumably a colleague of some description - to do all the calculations, Feed him the correct numbers (as the people there can't tell if the draw is live or not) and simple. Quote: I think he's excellent in general. I was disappointed in last nights show. Next week had better be better. Agreed, he's an astonishingly good magician. Usually, even if I can't immediately spot what the trick is, I have a good idea, or havew spotted some part of it. Some of the stuff he does I haven't a clue, and the stuff I do know he's extraordinarily smooth, and if you didn't already know the trick, you wouldn't stand a chance. Quote: Quote: (And I used to piss his father off something rotten) You can't leave us hanging. What? Derren went to my school (also: my university), and his father taught there as a swimming coach. (ref) By the age of 15 or so, swimming wasn't a compulsory lesson, and so only a few of us did it. I don't think many teachers would let you (as in the entire class) get away with turning up over an hour and a half into a two hour lesson, or any of the whole host of things we used to get up to in the lessons. Never got in trouble for it though - he was a nice guy, really.

Author:	Agent Starling [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 16:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Re Derren Brown, I thoroughly enjoyed it and can't find anything to be cynical about. I mean, of course he didn't actually predict the lottery. So what? It was still entertaining and none of his tricks are 'real' anyway, are they? It's all great TV, to me, and he always comes across as funny and charming. I still him.

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 16:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Agent Starling wrote: Re Derren Brown, I thoroughly enjoyed it and can't find anything to be cynical about. My biggest problem with the lottery thing is, to expand the point I made on Twitter: Brown has always taken great pains to present himself as a rationalist and to actively debunk mysticism of all kinds. Think of that five-part US-based show, where he went "undercover" and presented himself as a medium or a faith healer -- direct attacks on the charlatans who do that for real. And now we have him making promises to explain how a trick works -- which is hardly unprecedented, he's explained quite a bit of his stuff -- and presenting with a straight face the idea that unconscious writing was how he did it. This is an attitude quite in opposition to everything else he's done. Also, to respond to something Mr Dave picked up on earlier -- I think his best tricks are where he does some traditional sleight-of-hand or mechanical trickery but dresses it up in the psychological stuff; or, vice versa, where he does (say) card tricks that actually turned on the psychology. He's a magician with a fearsome command of two fields; the greatest misdirection of all is when you're looking in the entire wrong body of technique for the answer to "how did he do that"?

Author:	Curiosity [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 16:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits & Bobs XII
Agent Starling wrote: Re Derren Brown, I thoroughly enjoyed it and can't find anything to be cynical about. I mean, of course he didn't actually predict the lottery. So what? It was still entertaining and none of his tricks are 'real' anyway, are they? It's all great TV, to me, and he always comes across as funny and charming. I still him. I guess it was that he was trying to do this big thing, but it got spotted straight away by 'the internet' as to how it was done. If you do a trick and are trying to build up tension about how you did it, and someone immediately tells everyone, you look silly then trying to convince them you did it via ridiculous means.