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Page 44 of 59 |
| Author: | Mr Dave [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 22:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote: What Bamba said. Any valid points Dave might make are lost in the mouth-foaming froth of his fanaticism. I'd be arguing the same about, for example, resident evil 4. Change the control scheme that fundamentally and you completely change the game. I really rather disliked what I played of RE4. |
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| Author: | ElephantBanjoGnome [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 22:57 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
WTB wrote: Don't be a dick, man. How is this me being a dick? I very much doubt he'd deny the extent of his fanaticism, but might disagree that the height of it precludes reasonable debate about its negative aspects. I will still attempt to play it, and still attempt to like it, but I'm not going to subscribe to this 'not meant for the PC' bullshit. On basic first principles, originating console and porting arguments aside, I have bought a game for the PC, and it handles like shit, is hard to play, and references controls that don't exist natively on a standard PC set-up. That is fucking poor and no amount of 'It's still awesome on the Xbox' humping is going to ameliorate that. |
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| Author: | ElephantBanjoGnome [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 23:16 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
I'm just thinking about what Westwood EA did for Command and Conquer 3. To me RTS is completely alien to a console because that style of play, to me at least, is only effective using a mouse to finely point and click. Now, I'm sure EA could have thrown out a dirty release, and let you use one of the sticks to torturously drag a cursor around to click on things as you would with a mouse, but that would be an exercise in slow, maddening frustration. They could have done that and left it to fanboys to honk about inalienable, PC-specific style of play. Instead they redesigned the control interface to make it essentially the same game that allowed for relatively smooth control with a gamepad. It was tidy, and as far as I can ascertain, very successful, much to the enjoyment of fans. Did they have to redesign the game to do it? No. Is a manifestly different game as a result? No. Would such an adjustment have been that fucking hard for Dark Souls if they'd really wanted to? No. The comments here make it sound like they moved heaven on earth to get it onto the PC, and despite their very best, consummate efforts, it's the STYLE OF GAME that makes the result a jerky, blurry, pile of wank. You know that's just not true. Bear in mind I'm not calling the game shit. I'm calling the port shit. There might be as much awesome hiding here as you maintain, but I'm struggling to access it and it's really not helping me out. The style of play might not be PC-optimised, and I could agree with that too, except for the fact they didn't even try to adjust it even a little for a completely different control interface. If I could at least switch between my items using the 1-4 keys that would be something, but even that is denied me. It's bobbins, Sir, total bobbins. |
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| Author: | Mr Dave [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 0:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote: I'm just thinking about what Westwood EA did for Command and Conquer 3. To me RTS is completely alien to a console because that style of play, to me at least, is only effective using a mouse to finely point and click. Now, I'm sure EA could have thrown out a dirty release, and let you use one of the sticks to torturously drag a cursor around to click on things as you would with a mouse, but that would be an exercise in slow, maddening frustration. They could have done that and left it to fanboys to honk about inalienable, PC-specific style of play. Instead they redesigned the control interface to make it essentially the same game that allowed for relatively smooth control with a gamepad. It was tidy, and as far as I can ascertain, very successful, much to the enjoyment of fans. Did they have to redesign the game to do it? No. Is a manifestly different game as a result? No. Notice how they didn't repeat it for C&C4. That should really tell you all you need to know. But also it was planned from the start. Putting things in early is cheap. Putting them in at the end... not so much. Quote: Would such an adjustment have been that fucking hard for Dark Souls if they'd really wanted to? On a budget. Yes. Doing something that wasn't planned for, that you have no expertise at, on an engine designed for the PS3 and you don't want to risk spending much money on because although you have an online petition, such things quite often tend to count for jack. Yes, I'd say that's quite hard. So they had three options 1) Don't release anything 2) Release it as it is 3) Spend lots on a complete unknown. For a relatively small, niche developer, 3 isn't an option. Given I'm typically more interested in the game rather than what platform specific features it has, I really can't see 2 as a bad thing. Quote: If I could at least switch between my items using the 1-4 keys that would be something, but even that is denied me. It's bobbins, Sir, total bobbins. Key remappers are your friend in that case. See: What I did with mapping keys onto my mouse. The same is possible for keys. |
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| Author: | ElephantBanjoGnome [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 0:40 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Mr Dave wrote: Notice how they didn't repeat it for C&C4. They didn't even put in decent PC controls for that - terrible game all round and one of the worst buys I've ever made, and I fucking love C&C. I'd have prefered 1), to be frank, rather than the illusion of doing it properly. If all they base their market feasibility on are internet petitions, they've got serious problems. As has already been repeated, 2) is fine if you sell it for a price that reflects the effort. £30 is not that. Third-party apps that can do key/mouse button trickery are also not mitigating arguments towards the port being good, which is what we're discussing here. |
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| Author: | Mr Dave [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
I'd rather 2 - Too often people try to be all things to all people. Which means you don't see quite a lot of interesting things because doing so is hard. |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Do you mean 1? |
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| Author: | Mr Dave [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:10 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Grim... wrote: Do you mean 1? Nah, release something that meets the needs of some rather than not release it because it doesn't meet the needs of everyone. It's not like a small amount of looking at reviews and or previews doesn't state what the case is. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
I'm not clear. Are From Software a business or a charity? |
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| Author: | MrPSB [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 21:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
I AM SCARED OF THIS GAME. I killed the big fat demon at the start but I AM TOO SCARED TO CONTINUE. |
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| Author: | Satsuma [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 23:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Hang on 'ear. Mr Dave are you playing the Prepare to Die version on PC with the, fairly soon to be released, DLC stuff? Have you got to the DLC stuff? What's the crack? Or Criac? Or Craic? Or whatever the kids are sniffing these days. |
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| Author: | WTB [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 23:37 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
But spoiler tag any new content discussion! I want it to be fresh when the DLC arrives. Also I suppose it might even be a good thing to start spoiler tagging original game discussion again seeing as folk like MrPSB seem to be playing for the first time. |
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| Author: | Mr Dave [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Ian Fairies wrote: Hang on 'ear. Mr Dave are you playing the Prepare to Die version on PC with the, fairly soon to be released, DLC stuff? Have you got to the DLC stuff? What's the crack? Or Criac? Or Craic? Or whatever the kids are sniffing these days. I am. I haven't reached it yet - don't know where it is. |
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| Author: | Mr Dave [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:16 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: I'm not clear. Are From Software a business or a charity? Last time I checked, creating stuff on a budget to a niche audience was a perfectly valid business plan. Worked well enough for Demons souls and its sequel. |
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| Author: | Alberto [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 16:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
The game could never live up to this thread, decision made FOREVER! |
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| Author: | Satsuma [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 17:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Jesus, I think I've only just noticed that the Black Knight on the box set box art is reflecting off the knights helmet. Stupid thicko. Lovely though. The artwork around this game is generally awesomez. |
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| Author: | ElephantBanjoGnome [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 22:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Wow, this game is awesomely designed. Beat the training dungeon, and got dropped off where some knight dude is sitting. Tried to skip dialogue and ended up accidentally twatting the guy instead. Guy turns aggro, and kills me instantly. Game reloads at bonfire, next to guy. Guy is still aggro. Kills me instantly. Game reloads at bonfire, next to guy. Guy is still aggro. Kills me instantly. And so on. As this game auto-saves, I can't roll back to an earlier slot. I only have one slot. Game is therefore fucked, and I must now restart. If I try to run from the guy he follows me tirelessly making it impossible to walk around that whole area. Genius. |
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 22:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
That's not a flaw; it's superior game design. [/Mr Dave] |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 22:30 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
I did that too, because of a message telling me to. I managed to kill him in the end with constant parrying. It was fucking hard, though. |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 22:31 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
You could try running up to the sewer pipe and kicking him off. |
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| Author: | ElephantBanjoGnome [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 22:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Grim... wrote: I did that too, because of a message telling me to. What message? I at least wanted to read what he was saying but not have to listen to the dialog. Since I can never work out what fucking button does what, it was pretty easy to accidentally hit him mid-sentence. Not finding the graphics or gameplay particularly captivating either. Will probably leave it another couple of days before I can be arsed to try this again. |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 23:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
One left by another player. |
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| Author: | WTB [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 23:18 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Skip the dialogue? There are about five lines in the entire game! But also... The dialogue button is A, if I recall. Combat is the shoulder buttons. How did you manage to twat him? Is everything mapped to spacebar? |
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| Author: | ElephantBanjoGnome [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 23:35 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
WTB wrote: The dialogue button is A Helpful comments, since I'm playing on the PC. The default mapping on the PC to view notes is Q. A logical key to skip dialogue, you'd think, except it doesn't. Q also doesn't remove pop-ups such as 'This door is locked' - that requires the return key. All nice and logical. So I experimentally pushed other keys and didn't expect it to allow combat during conversation. I might just sack this off and pretend I paid £65 for Skyrim, because that would still seem like decent value. |
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| Author: | Alberto [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 23:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote: WTB wrote: The dialogue button is A Helpful comments, since I'm playing on the PC. Just because you're playing it on the PC doesn't mean you should be trying to play it as if you were on a PC though... or something. And you should have known this from the price. (Am I doing this right Dark Souls types?) |
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| Author: | WTB [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 23:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Obviously I was talking about the console version. But my point is, if you'd read instead of jumping on the defensive immediately, that the "skip dialogue" button and all of the combat buttons are entirely different, and therefore you must've been mashing the keys like a spaz to hit the guy. Hence why I said "are all of the buttons mapped to the space bar?". I know you're playing on PC, but one would imagine there are corresponding keys for each controller button... I mean, don't games come with button instructions anymore? One would think you'd have checked them by now seeing as the controls are all you've been talking about since Friday! |
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| Author: | Satsuma [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 23:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
It should be Q? No, D, for dialogue skip. Oh, so S then. For skip. Or maybe T for traverse text quickly. Oh its Q for quickly. No, it's PRNT SCRN. Oh, so it must be P. No, R, no, N, no ... etc. Does this game not come with a fucking manual for the PC or what? Edit: Gah, WTB got there by mere seconds. *shakes fist at router* |
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| Author: | Mr Dave [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 0:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Lesson learned: Next time read a damn review before spending lots of money. Like any sensible person would. -- Anyway, I have now discovered the new content. Or at least the beginning of it. It's... not very easy. Really not very easy. Indeed, the boss I have reached is currently making all the other bosses in the game look like scared pansies. This could take a while. |
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| Author: | Mr Dave [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 0:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Mr Dave wrote: Lesson learned: Next time read a damn review before spending lots of money. although maybe not this one |
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| Author: | Alberto [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 0:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
I thought we'd all previously gnashed our teeth and wailed about games not coming with any kind of manual worth the paper it's printed on any more like in the good old days (especially Ian IIRC)... so the whole "isn't there a bloody manual, why aren't you reading the manual properly you clod?" line seems a bit... odd. |
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| Author: | WTB [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 0:50 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
It's a Steam game anyway (unless he bought the physical version, which I don't think he did). We're not referring to a paper manual. But I don't know of any PC game that doesn't have a controls menu or something that at least resembles a controls list. |
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| Author: | LaceSensor [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
CG just borrow or pick up a wired xbox pad....make it worth playing tbh |
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| Author: | ElephantBanjoGnome [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
LaceSensor wrote: CG just borrow or pick up a wired xbox pad....make it worth playing tbh Yeah I have a local mate who is an enthusiastic Dark Souls owner and is going to come round and try to demonstrate how this shit is supposed to be done with a pad, as he also maintains that it's great. I'd love to be turned on (fnarr) as to why that's the case. Short answer to keyboard whining: While you can look at key mappings in the settings, none of them afaik have a 'skip dialog' notation. So like any reasonable person you're left to guess, and therefore assume it could be the same key as another key that confirms a pop-up dialogue elsewhere in the game. Also in most games it's not possible to attack someone while you're speaking to them, so I had no reason to worry that tapping keys experimentally would actually attack the fucking guy. |
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| Author: | ElephantBanjoGnome [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:18 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Mr Dave wrote: Lesson learned: Next time read a damn review before spending lots of money. Well excuse me. My rationale for buying was not a little bit because you have been harping on for fucking months in the Skyrim thread about how awesome this game is supposed to be. I am truly sorry that I didn't automatically assume that a port would be an unplayable load of shite. |
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| Author: | LewieP [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:46 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Just picked this up for the PC the other day. What a fantastic game. I am terrible at it. |
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| Author: | Alberto [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
WTB wrote: It's a Steam game anyway (unless he bought the physical version, which I don't think he did). We're not referring to a paper manual. But I don't know of any PC game that doesn't have a controls menu or something that at least resembles a controls list. You forgot to tell me I'd have known all that if I'd done my research. |
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| Author: | myp [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
You wouldn't buy a car without researching it - it's madness!!! |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:02 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
I thought the Beex Hivemind position was that game reviewers were dicks, that game websites are shit, and that everyone is much better off relying on word of mouth where you can trust the source and know they haven't been bought off by advertisers and pressurised by editors? |
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
This is Dark Souls, Doc. Abandon objectivity all ye who enter here. |
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| Author: | Satsuma [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:18 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
No one here had played Dark Souls on PC before EBG, as far as I know. In any event, I support the freedom to criticise Dark Souls. I also support the freedom to disagree with that criticism. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
It's pretty obvious that it's a shit port of a great game. The only argument appears to be that Dave thinks it's fine to make a shit port and sell it for full RRP, and others don't. |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Mr Dave wrote: Lesson learned: Next time read a damn review before spending lots of money. Eurogamer: 9/10 Metro: 8/10 PC Gamer: 89% Only the Metro mentions the mouse and keyboard issues ("laughably bad")*. What more wisdom can you give us, wise sage? * PC Gamer touches on them, but in the context of "ho ho, this game is hard", which is strange. |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:40 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Aha, GameSpy hates it: http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/dark-souls/1225854p1.html So I guess if you read that one you'd be okay. Which kind of makes the others seem a bit, well, odd. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:42 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
No, no, you have to read the right reviews, see. Like RPS's lengthy hands-on: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/08 ... ore-119215 It has one sentence about the broken controls: Quote: Keyboard and mouse controls are in and can be completely reconfigured, although I have to admit to a fondness for the gamepad for this one. Oh. |
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| Author: | LewieP [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
The PC port seems fine to me. You definitely want to grab the resolution fix mod so that it's not just upscaled blurry 720p, and I found the keyboard and mouse controls to be basically unusable. No major complaints beyond that, really. It's obviously not had anything done to it to take advantage of the potentially more powerful hardware PCs have, and they've not rebuilt animations systems to support anything higher than 30fps, but I've certainly played worse ports. Performance is basically fine. It's the same game that was on Xbox 360 and PS3. Very little has been changed at all. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
LewieP wrote: The PC port seems fine to me. You definitely want to grab the resolution fix mod so that it's not just upscaled blurry 720p, and I found the keyboard and mouse controls to be basically unusable. No major complaints beyond that, really. Amazing. The resolution is shit and the controls are unusable. So it's fine. |
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| Author: | markg [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:31 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
I appears that it's fine if you have a 360 pad to use with it. But many PC owners seem opposed to those on ideological grounds so they should perhaps have made this clearer. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:34 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
How can people possibly be defending a piece of software that is sold in a box for real money and tells the player during the tutorial to press the "A" key, which on the default mapping is actually mapped to "Q"? It blows my mind. That would be unbearably sloppy if it was freeware, for fuck's sake. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:34 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
markg wrote: I appears that it's fine if you have a 360 pad to use with it. But many PC owners seem opposed to those on ideological grounds so they should perhaps have made this clearer. Or maybe they don't already have a pad, and object to having to fork out to buy one just to make their new game vaguely playable?
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| Author: | Dimrill [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:35 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dark Souls |
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: How can people possibly be defending a piece of software that is sold in a box for real money and tells the player during the tutorial to press the "A" key, which on the default mapping is actually mapped to "Q"? It blows my mind. That would be unbearably sloppy if it was freeware, for fuck's sake. Soul Calibur does this too. You have to use a cypher on the left to discern the controls. |
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