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Ripples across the world
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Author:  sinister agent [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 19:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Tahrir Square a few minutes ago.

Wow. And this is when it hasn't even been confirmed. Imagine what it'll be like if he really is leaving, and taking Suleiman with him.

Author:  Kern [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 19:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

:this:

Hmm... do I go out or stay in...

Author:  sinister agent [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 20:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Any minute now! Due at 8pm GMT. End of the dictator or his crazy last stand. COME ON YOU EGYYYYYPT.

Author:  Wullie [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 21:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

He's talking noo, if you'd gave up waiting ;)

Author:  MaliA [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 21:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Wullie wrote:
He's talking noo, if you'd gave up waiting ;)


Mad Dogs is on at 9 on Sky One.

Author:  sdg [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 22:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

God, he's a cock.

Author:  sinister agent [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 22:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

He just finished. He's made some pissant concessions he would undo in twenty minutes if he were allowed to stay, and then refused to leave.

The crowd are going fucking mental. I've never heard anything like it. Fifty thousand people probably went deaf in the last minute.

He's clearly determined to get the "Scarface ending" achievement.

Author:  Joans [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 22:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Gilly wrote:
God, he's a cock.


That's a bit off-topic.

Author:  sinister agent [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 22:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

If you're wanting an update on this, get thee on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23jan25 . Far too much going on too quickly for me to keep up. It sounds like protestors in Alexandria have surrounded a military base and are demanding action. The main crowd in Tahrir are still there, although it's unclear if the people on the periphery have moved - it'd probably take half an hour for the people in the middle to even have anywhere to move to if they wanted to.

Something's got to give tonight. The military will have to step in, if they don't, it can't be long before a crowd charges a base or tries to take a tank for themselves or something. This is nuts. Mubarak is either completely insane or trying to break a rioting world record.

Author:  gospvg [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 22:41 ]
Post subject:  Ripples across the world

It's going to all kick off, the stubborn bastard will have more deaths on his name

Author:  Decca [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 22:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Quote:
The 25 January movement has succeeded in making a change in the party of democracy, history has begun. Constitutional decisions have been taken, commissions were formed to implement what the president decided in terms of directives in his 1 February speech. What the president announced today stresses once again his national feeling and his siding with the legitimate demands of the people and his commitment to the many pledges he made in the past. It also proves his awareness of the seriousness of the situation that Egypt is going through. The president had put the supreme interests of the people above everything else."

clearly the naked text does not do Suleiman's amazing trick of making a speech with a cock in his mouth justice.

Author:  Kern [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 22:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Just got back and caught the news. Pretty shocked to hear he's still there. Listening to AJ again - that's a hell of a difference in the crowd noise. The joyful cheers from earlier have been replaced by anger.

I'm now thinking of Brecht's famously cynical poem, 'The Solution':

'After the uprising of the 17th June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?'

EDITED to include the whole piece.

Author:  Kern [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 23:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Guardian reported that Mubarak transferred all power to Suleiman.
Of course, this doesn't really mean much as the latter is still a shit tied to the regime and the crowd clearly aren't happy with it (my entry for BeeX Understatement of the Year 2011).

Waiting for other sources to confirm this interpretation of events.
Guardian also saying that the US are clearly pissed off with Mubarak now. Over here, William Hague 'reiterates his desire for a peaceful transition of power, adding: "The solution has to be owned by the Egyptian people themselves.' (BBC).
In Paris, President Sarkozy said: "I hope with all my heart for Egypt's nascent democracy that they take time to create the structures and principles that will help them find the path to democracy and not another form of dicatorship, religious dicatorship, like what happened in Iran." (BBC)

I might turn off the news now. It's very depressing, especially compared with the hope when the rumours started this afternoon.

Author:  sinister agent [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 23:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

The Saudis reportedly said that they will ship aid to Mubarak if the US stops. This may help explain his refusal to fuck off.

It also arguably removes the US from the equation - without rattling their sabre, there's nothing they can really do to influence him. And if they do that, they'll lose the Egyptian people altogether.

Which doesn't mean they're not going to do that, obv. But I doubt it'll come to that. Tomorrow, if not tonight, will prove very interesting.

Author:  NervousPete [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 0:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

>:(

Pro-tip: Put all your money into shares in Egyptian shoe-repair.

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 0:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Disclaimer: I think Mubarak should go.

Question: Out of a population of 80m, a tiny percentile of people are protesting. Should he go? Do we believe that the countryside protests, a (possibly) higher percentage of the UK population, should have overthrown the Labour government?

Author:  Grim... [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 0:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

sinister agent wrote:
If you're wanting an update on this, get thee on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23jan25 .

Twitterfall is better at this sort of thing:
http://twitterfall.com/?trend=%23jan25!%231F3547

Author:  Kern [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Question: Out of a population of 80m, a tiny percentile of people are protesting. Should he go? Do we believe that the countryside protests, a (possibly) higher percentage of the UK population, should have overthrown the Labour government?



Interesting question.

I suppose over here, although we might hate Thatcher/Blair/Disraeli, there's a sense that our elections are open and fair (disregarding arguments about the voting system etc). So no matter how bad they might be, we know that at the end of the Parliament we can kick them out. In the meantime, to let off steam, we can mock our leaders as mercilessly as we want without fear of being led away by the secret police. In places like Egypt, ruled by fear, they've not had these outlets for their frustrations.

Author:  Kern [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

The army has made a statement, guaranteeing free and fair elections, constitutional changes, and has urged "the need to resume orderly work in the government installations and a return to normal life, preserve the interests and property of our great people".

(Abridged from BBC report)

Author:  Squirt [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

For a second listening to that I thought they were going to make a real "We're taking charge. Right now." type statement, but they've stopped short of that.

Author:  sinister agent [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 13:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Occurred to me last night that the military and Mubarak are being thwarted at every turn by the stubbornly peaceful nature of these protestors if they're scheming together. It would have been a good plan - the army makes an announcement, gets everyone excited for a few hours, so a million people march in the streets waiting for the good news. Then Mubarak thumbs his nose and insults them all. Riot breaks out; army has excuse to team up with Mubarak/whoever mubarak chooses and crush everyone.

But they're not having any of it, even if that's what went on. These people are amazing.

As for the question, well, millions of people have been protesting, and specifically demanding that he leaves, among other things. Nobody here knowingly risked kidnapping, torture and death of them and their families to get rid of Blair. About one in ten people in Egypt have, plus they have no alternative. And the people who've protested in support of the regime are the people who brought knives, horses and guns to attack unarmed demonstrators. And Mubarak himself has demonstrably been harming the country for weeks now, holding the economy to ransom just to get his way.

I've not heard from a single Egyptian who doesn't support these protests. Anecdotal, yes, but with any other event I can think of, there's always been at least some debate. Here, there's been no question about whether Mubarak should go, except from arsehole politicians like the US, Saudi and Israeli leadership.

Author:  Wullie [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 17:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ ;)

Author:  itsallwater [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 17:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Well blow me... never thought it would happen!

Author:  NervousPete [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 17:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Damnitt!

What's going on? I can't access that here, I'm in work. I'm blind! Help! People! Paste updates! My vision is impaired, I cannot see! :facepalm: :'( :) :?: :?: 8) ?:|

(And other tennuously connected Dimlies)

Author:  itsallwater [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 17:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Egypt's Mubarak steps down!

1612: Full statement from Vice-President Suleiman: "In the name of God the merciful, the compassionate, citizens, during these very difficult circumstances Egypt is going through, President Hosni Mubarak has decided to step down from the office of president of the republic and has charged the high council of the armed forces to administer the affairs of the country. May God help everybody."
1611: It's taken 18 days of mass demonstrations. Mr Mubarak gave three televised statements in which he offered some concessions, but the protesters refused to be appeased.
1608: This is the moment the protesters have been waiting for. Mr Mubarak is stepping down after 30 years as Egypt's head of state.
1607: State TV says Mr Mubarak has handed over responsibility for running the nation's affairs to the higher military council.
1606: Tahrir Square has erupted - pictures show cheering crowds waving flags in the dark.
1604: The vice-president made a very brief televised statement. He said Mr Mubarak was stepping down for the benefit of the republic.

Author:  DavPaz [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 17:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

BBC wrote:
Hosni Mubarak has decided to step down as president of Egypt.

Vice-President Omar Suleiman made the announcement in a brief statement on state TV.

It came as thousands massed in Cairo and other Egyptian cities for an 18th day of protest to demand Mr Mubarak's resignation.

Protesters responded by cheering, waving flags, embracing and sounding car horns. "The people have brought down the regime," they chanted.

Author:  Wullie [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 17:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

NervousPete wrote:
Damnitt!

What's going on? I can't access that here, I'm in work. I'm blind! Help! People! Paste updates! My vision is impaired, I cannot see! :facepalm: :'( :) :?: :?: 8) ?:|

(And other tennuously connected Dimlies)
Everyone is going fucking mental (in a good way), much noisier than last night's anger :)

Author:  Kern [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 17:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Wow!

Author:  sinister agent [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 17:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

The cunt! Why couldn't he wait 90 minutes? >:(

Author:  Cavey [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 17:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Something tells me he got a call from the Whitehouse...

Good news though, undoubtedly.

Author:  Wullie [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 17:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Captain Caveman wrote:
Something tells me he got a call from the Whitehouse...
Hmm, all they could really do is threaten to stop their "aid" payments & that bit of leverage was stripped from them last month.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/02/1 ... NC20110210

Author:  NervousPete [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 18:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

True, but Egypt relies a hell of a lot on tourism, and now we've all been made aware (or at least those of us - shamefully including me - who hadn't paid attention to rights abuses in Egypt before) not too many people are willing to go on holiday to Corrupt-Regime-Land. That's bound to cause concern amongst the ruling class. (Unless of course, you're talking about my Socialist Paradise in Tropico 3, visit me there for picturesque, photogenic poverty and cheap drinks!)

I'd say that pressure from the army became intolerable. Their families can't have been happy with the regime either and if the troops were giving the generals quiet grief and if there was a general atmosphere of resentment and hatred towards the police through the structure, that would mean great reluctance to ultimately back Murabak. Now it remains to be seen how reflective the army are of greater Egypt's desire for democracy, but I remain quietly hopeful.

Author:  Lord Rixondale [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 18:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

I recommend watching Al Jazeera right now (although their coverage of the whole thing has been excellent). There are some amazing party scenes going down all over Egypt. Wish I was in Cairo.

Author:  Wullie [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 18:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

NervousPete wrote:
I'd say that pressure from the army became intolerable.
Jon Snow agrees.
https://twitter.com/#!/jonsnowC4/status ... 1127502848

Author:  NervousPete [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 18:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Nevermind, Rixondale. We can pretend with Mendricks in a week's time on the Pipes & Ales pub crawl, he can do some Egyptian chanting and we'll turn over some cars or something.

Author:  Lord Rixondale [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 18:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

NervousPete wrote:
Nevermind, Rixondale. We can pretend with Mendricks in a week's time on the Pipes & Ales pub crawl, he can do some Egyptian chanting and we'll turn over some cars or something.


Mendrick has told me that his mission has been completed and Egypt will be rejoining the British Empire within 3 months. He makes me laugh.

Author:  sinister agent [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 19:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

I doubt that the US had much to do with this, to be honest. The Egyptian military is quite a force socially and, it seems, politically. Any leverage the US had seems to have taken a nosedive over the last month. It will be interesting indeed to see what Egypt does from here - the people will not forget the failure of the US to give the slightest support to the people, and Western Europe didn't fare much better either.

Going to be a very, very interesting year in the middle east. I think the days where anyone can claim that we have any right whatsoever to invade and bomb the fuck out of any country we don't like 'for democracy' are over - compare Egypt's regime change with Iraq's. Body count is about 0.3%, there's been minimal damage to the country's infrastructure, and we haven't given hundreds of thousands of people every motivation to resort to TRRRRRSM. And fuck me, if the Egyptian people aren't celebrated as among the most patient and noble in the world from now on, the rest of us don't deserve to share the planet with them.


So, beteo meet in Tahrir Square: Who's coming?

Author:  DBSnappa [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 19:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Captain Caveman wrote:
Something tells me he got a call from the Whitehouse...

Good news though, undoubtedly.


I suspect it took him this long to liquidate the bulk of his assets before scarpering. Hadn't he fleeced the country for somewhere in the region of $70bn?

Author:  DavPaz [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 19:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Murbarek for next Man City manager anyone?

Author:  sinister agent [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 19:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Sandmonkey wrote:
FIREWORKS, CELEBRATIONS, FUN! JUBILATION! I AM NOT MAKING SENSE. I AM HEADING TO TAHRIR! #JAN25


I know where I'm going on holiday next. Really, have no words. Even just watching long-range videos of all these happy, cheering people, even three hours later. All this through peaceful protest. Not a religious movement, not a racist or fascist or communist or nationalist one; just millions of people saying "enough!". And they've done it. Oh, the hard work of building a new government and the country at large is yet to come, sure, but regardless of what may come, what these people have achieved, and the way in which they've done it, is utterly astonishing. It's been a privilege to even read about and watch in tiny chunks, so I can't even imagine how the protestors are feeling right now.

And the Swiss have frozen Mubarak's assets after all - it wasn't just a rumour. Incredible. Simply incredible.

Sneaky photo edit: swoosh

Author:  NervousPete [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 20:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

The Swiss being stand-up dictator-fund freezing ethical dudes? 8)

I think my world just got pleasantly readjusted to Universe B.

Author:  Decca [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 23:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

He's gawn. Army in charge. :DD

Image

Author:  sinister agent [ Sat Feb 12, 2011 20:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Images of Egyptians cleaning up Tahrir Square.

Things seem to be picking up in Yemen now. About 1500 protestors occupied Al-Tahrir Square (really). Seems to be less extreme than in Egypt, however Egypt started that small, as well.

A quick picture

Reports of security forces showing up in force and dispersing the crowd.

I know nothing at all about Yemen, so I'ma try to keep an eye on this, but don't expect too much. Anyone know much about Yemen? Algeria is also seeing some protests, heard vague references to Iran, but not looked into those yet.

Edit: Actually, it looks like Algeria might have the edge in terms of scale. This could be quite interesting if it continues or escalates, as the French are more likely to be interested than the US.

Re-edit: I hope that all these uprising are succesful, and the governments they install will immediately arrest and execute anyone using those excruciating "uninstalling dictator..." 'jokes'.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Various protests and uprisings in the region at the moment, especially Libya, Bahrain, Yemen, and Iran, with different government reactions to them. I'm finding it very hard to keep on track of what's happening.

Interesting times.

The Guardian is still running a live blog and AJ is still excellent.

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Interesting article in The Economist about who is next, according to some sums and things.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailycha ... rest_index

Author:  NervousPete [ Wed Feb 16, 2011 14:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

8)

Quote:
The reported unrest comes a day before planned anti-government demonstrations on Thursday, which are being organised via the internet.

Col Gaddafi, who has been in power since 1969, has suggested he might join the protests himself, the BBC's Jon Leyne reports.


That's what I love about that crazy Gaddafi, he just keeps yer guessing!

Author:  sinister agent [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 23:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Victory march in Tahrir Square marking a week since Mubarak left.

Protests continue in Libya, Algeria, Djibouti, Yemen, Bahrain, and more. Lots of "police shoot protestors" stories going on.

Video of police murdering peaceful protestors in Bahrain. May be disturbing, obviously.


Tangentially related, the US has blocked a UN resolution (backed by every other Security Council member) to condemn Israeli settlement building on Palestinian land as illegal. They seem to be determined to make America look as useless and indifferent to arabic nations as possible. If there is an even greater anti-US backlash in the region in coming years, they have no right to blame anything but themselves.

Interesting analysis by Mark LeVine:

Quote:
In the wake of Egypt, where many people harbor resentment against the Administration for its lack of early support for the democracy movement what can Obama do now? Can he in good conscience acquiesce to the brutal suppression of pro-democracy protesters so soon after his eloquent words and late coming to supporting the Egyptian revolution?

The larger question is: What is more essential to American security today, convenient bases for its ships, planes and troops across the Middle East, or a full transition to democracy throughout the region?

The answer is clearly the latter, as evidenced by the fact that America's two primary antagonists in the Middle East, al-Qaeda and the Iranian government, have seen their standing sink in proportion to the rise of the pro-democracy movements.

In any war, cold or hot, propaganda is crucial, and here it is impossible to lose sight of the fact that al-Qaeda has had little if anything to say about the Egyptian revolution precisely because it was a massive non-violent jihad that succeeded miraculously where a decade of al-Qaeda blood and vitriol have miserably failed.

As for Iran, the government's rhetorical support for the Egyptian revolution while it continues to suppress its own democracy movement is clearly emptying the Iranian regime of any remaining credibility as an alternative to the US-dominated order.

Author:  sdg [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 18:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Reports coming in from Benghazi that sections of the army are siding with the people now, they think it is only Gaddafi's private brigade who have been doing the shooting but the protestors are heading there now...apparently along with army vehicles and with army issue weapons being waved above their heads. Al Jazeera has been blocked in Libya.

Author:  Kern [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 15:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

Protests in Libya have now spread to Tripoli. Rumours that Gadaffi (sp?) has left the city.
Awful reports about use of live ammunition in various cities . Estimates of over 230 killed in Libya already.

Author:  Kern [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 16:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ripples across the world

More stable doors shutting:

Graunaid: 'UK revokes arms export licences as violence grows'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011 ... nces-libya

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