Waiting at Edinburgh station for my train south. I bought a paper for the trip.
Heh. "McPravda" as I believe it's better known as in some circles. 
I didn't realise until today there's a "parody" of this particular publication on Twitter, @ScottyNational, where they're fairly mercilessly lampooned by the looks.
I'm not normally much given to all things Twitter, but by crikey, you'd require a heart of stone for this tweet to not to raise a chuckle, right guys? I mean really, you've just got to laugh...
I'm not normally much given to all things Twitter, but by crikey, you'd require a heart of stone for this tweet to not to raise a chuckle, right guys? I mean really, you've just got to laugh...
Quote:
EU: As Angus Robertson urges us not 'to turn our backs on our EU neighbours', we issue this handy map
I really don't 'get' how there are Scottish nationalists who are pro-Brexit.* I mean, like a tiny state like an independent Scotland would be able to survive economically without being able to trade with neighbouring European states...
* yeah, I dislike that term too.
* yeah, I dislike that term too.
Nowt wrong with portmanteaux.
It looked great in The Prisoner.
To celebrate the lack of Scottish independence today, ['our friend in the westcountry' -Ed.] has produced a booklet on what happened since the referendum. Just the thing to pass the time as I'm off work today and currently pretty high on lemsip.
Oh, and the Scotland Act was passed last night. It's either the fulfilment of the Vow or the biggest blow since Culloden.
Since November there's been a group of protestors outside Holyrood holding a permanent vigil until independence happens. The courts have finally evicted them (Buzzfeed).
Reading the judgement it seems I've missed a treat of a case (spoilered for length):
Reading the judgement it seems I've missed a treat of a case (spoilered for length):
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Kern wrote:
Since November there's been a group of protestors outside Holyrood holding a permanent vigil until independence happens. The courts have finally evicted them (Buzzfeed).
Reading the judgement it seems I've missed a treat of a case (spoilered for length):
Reading the judgement it seems I've missed a treat of a case (spoilered for length):
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
This is the most amazing thing I have ever read.
Kern, in June 2015 wrote:
I once saw a Marks & Spencer gift box of Scottish biscuits. The tin was shaped like a London bus, and the passengers pictured at the windows included the likes of Shakespeare, the Beatles, Elizabeth the First, etc etc .
It was the fifth in this selection helpfully cobbled together today by [Pinot - Ed.].
I'm
Not quite sure about the
Point being made about the porridge oats. I know most places have Scottish porridge oats but it might just be that they are sourced from Engksnd or Wales for cheapness?
Anyway, I could talk for ages on this subject as I once had so many issues with products sourced by our buyers for stores opening in Scotland. No hobos bread as it had the word 'British' on and a union flag, everything had to say Scottish, yadda yadda. Big headache.
My brain isn't organising words properly tonight, though, so best I don't start brain jabbering
Not quite sure about the
Point being made about the porridge oats. I know most places have Scottish porridge oats but it might just be that they are sourced from Engksnd or Wales for cheapness?
Anyway, I could talk for ages on this subject as I once had so many issues with products sourced by our buyers for stores opening in Scotland. No hobos bread as it had the word 'British' on and a union flag, everything had to say Scottish, yadda yadda. Big headache.
My brain isn't organising words properly tonight, though, so best I don't start brain jabbering
Yesterday there was a strange Commons debate in Westminster Hall on the Scottish Claim of Right. The MP for Glasgow North, Patrick Grady, opened it, with a newly-unemployed Michael Gove responding. Useful to me as an outsider as an overview to understand the mindset of independence supporters but I'm still not entirely sure what the purpose of the debate was, other than moan about the evils of Westminster.
The SNP speakers tend to focus on the 1989 Claim of Right, an exercise in civic participation that laid the groundwork for the devolution, rather than the charmingly rabid anti-Catholic text used to depose James VII/II (following the English lead on this!).
The SNP speakers tend to focus on the 1989 Claim of Right, an exercise in civic participation that laid the groundwork for the devolution, rather than the charmingly rabid anti-Catholic text used to depose James VII/II (following the English lead on this!).
Have you seen why, though? It's a properly bullshit reason.
Grim... wrote:
Have you seen why, though? It's a properly bullshit reason.
The reason he got banned, you mean?
I couldn't reason see that a really was given. It doesn't read as if the reader writer knew what the given reason was, or there wasn't one communicated?
Mimi wrote:
I couldn't reason see that a really was given. It doesn't read as if the reader writer knew what the given reason was, or there wasn't one communicated?
He called her despicable, then she got some nasty tweets from Stu's followers and then Twitter banned Stu. Then unbanned him.
Which is the bullshit reason.
Grim... wrote:
Which is the bullshit reason.
They should have just banned him for being a khunt.
Grim... wrote:
Which is the bullshit reason.
In a massive shock, I agree here. His was a rather mild comment and didn't incite anything. Although perhaps he knew it would happen.
Twitter keep getting this wrong all the time. I've seen rape and death threats replied to by "we can't see anything wrong with this tweet". They need to do much better.
Is it decided on by humans or complicators?
Mimi wrote:
Is it decided on by humans or complicators?
People. Definitely not complicators.
Lonewolves wrote:
Mimi wrote:
Is it decided on by humans or complicators?
People. Definitely not complicators.
People usually are complicators, sadly. Particularly on Twitter.
Hmm... I think the problem then is that they need a very definite overhaul of what criteria they use, and if an example comes up tgatvus obviously a banning offence it should not be dismissed because it does not fit current rule criteria, but rather rule criteria should be shaped to fit. But any threats of violence should surely be covered already. Makes no sense.
Sturgen previews Indyref II: just when you thought it was safe to go back to the border..
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... conference
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... conference
Kern wrote:
Sturgen previews Indyref II: just when you thought it was safe to go back to the border..
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... conference
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... conference
IndyRef II: Electric Haggisaloo.
Waiting at Warsaw Airport for the flight home and noticed that the board outside the Bureau de Change was offering different rates for British and Scottish pounds. I tried to do a quick piece of mental arithmetic to see if I could game this but realised that nobody is likely to accept Scottish notes in the Shire.
Couldn't you just exchange them for English notes at a bank?
Humza Yousaf, SNP Transport Minister.... nicked for driving with no insurance.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/h ... -1-4310904
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/h ... -1-4310904
Oh dear.
Cavey wrote:
Humza Yousaf, SNP Transport Minister.... nicked for driving with no insurance.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/h ... -1-4310904
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/h ... -1-4310904
Bradford West still number one but this area is discriminated against
2017 Poll asked should there be another independence referendum within the next year, 'No' ahead by a whopping 21%
http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions ... -next-year
No wonder Sturgeon's panicking after having painted herself into a corner over hard Brexit. I notice 'Yes' for indy support has fallen this month, January 2017 again, too - and despite Brexit.
#line">http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions ... untry
Maybe the likes of Kevin Hague and other commentators, with their calm, factual analyses, are making due headway.
http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions ... -next-year
No wonder Sturgeon's panicking after having painted herself into a corner over hard Brexit. I notice 'Yes' for indy support has fallen this month, January 2017 again, too - and despite Brexit.
#line">http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions ... untry
Maybe the likes of Kevin Hague and other commentators, with their calm, factual analyses, are making due headway.
Interesting gap on the second poll.
However on the 'should there be a vote' poll, I wouldn't read too much into the 21% - the argument would be that people who want to be independent wouldn't want a 2017 referendum if they thought they wouldn't get the result they wanted, so the gap there is perhaps small given the significance of the difference on the independence question itself.
However on the 'should there be a vote' poll, I wouldn't read too much into the 21% - the argument would be that people who want to be independent wouldn't want a 2017 referendum if they thought they wouldn't get the result they wanted, so the gap there is perhaps small given the significance of the difference on the independence question itself.
Heh. Well, if people who *support* independence don't want a second referendum at any time within the next year - and all this despite Brexit and a sitting Tory government - well, that tells us all we need to know about what even they themselves think of the 'case' they've been making these last few years. Courage of convictions, much?
Cavey wrote:
Heh. Well, if people who *support* independence don't want a second referendum at any time within the next year - and all this despite Brexit and a sitting Tory government - well, that tells us all we need to know about what even they themselves think of the 'case' they've been making these last few years. Courage of convictions, much?
I'm sure we know of a former video game journalist who could magic you up some sort of reason.
Cavey wrote:
2017 Poll asked should there be another independence referendum within the next year, 'No' ahead by a whopping 21%
Well of course not. People on both sides aren't stupid enough to have a referendum at this stage. The SNP have said there's no chance of one in 2017, and that makes sense. They'd be better waiting until we actually know what the "deal" is on Brexit, then they can fight for it using that.
Quote:
No wonder Sturgeon's panicking after having painted herself into a corner over hard Brexit. I notice 'Yes' for indy support has fallen this month, January 2017 again, too - and despite Brexit.
>January 13th.
I'm willing to bet some people are rethinking their opinion of that since May's announcement of her Brexit 'strategy'.
Quote:
Heh. Well, if people who *support* independence don't want a second referendum at any time within the next year - and all this despite Brexit and a sitting Tory government
Because we're likely to have a ton more material to fight with in the next few years thanks to the Tories and their hard brexit plans? Yes, quite.
Heh.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... snp-leader
... I guess May knows a bluffer when she sees one, as the grown-up, capable and savvy politician she undoubtedly is (whatever one thinks of her politics) - all as distinct from the Toytown SNP shower, Sturgeon included. Too right she's "rethinking her opinion" from 10 days ago now, given that bluff and bullshit have been duly called... man, it must be like shooting fish in a barrel for the Tories. Don't start what you can't finish, huh.
Quote:
In a period of political intimidation, time has been called on Nicola Sturgeon’s threat to hold a second Scottish independence referendum. Set aside the confusion between access to the single market and staying in parts of the custom union, as Theresa May called for in her speech on the UK’s Brexit aims, it is clear she intends to give up membership of the single market.
Nicola Sturgeon has marched her party to the top of the hill. Where next?
This triggers a threat by Scotland’s first minister made as recently as 10 days ago on the Andrew Marr show that in the event of UK departure from the single market, she would hold a second referendum. She told Marr she “wasn’t bluffing” over her threat, leaving her no choice in the light of May’s declaration.
However, in her first interview since the prime minister’s speech, Sturgeon seemed to step back from the threat. She told the BBC that a Scottish independence vote was “undoubtedly” closer, and sources briefed newspapers that another referendum was “all but inevitable”.
This might best be read as buying some time while hoping that the global reaction to May’s speech also draws attention away from the Scottish question. The reason Sturgeon needs time to reflect is the awkwardness of the situation she has boxed herself into. Her mandate for resisting Brexit stems from the 62% majority in Scotland for staying in the EU in the June 2016 referendum.
Nicola Sturgeon has marched her party to the top of the hill. Where next?
This triggers a threat by Scotland’s first minister made as recently as 10 days ago on the Andrew Marr show that in the event of UK departure from the single market, she would hold a second referendum. She told Marr she “wasn’t bluffing” over her threat, leaving her no choice in the light of May’s declaration.
However, in her first interview since the prime minister’s speech, Sturgeon seemed to step back from the threat. She told the BBC that a Scottish independence vote was “undoubtedly” closer, and sources briefed newspapers that another referendum was “all but inevitable”.
This might best be read as buying some time while hoping that the global reaction to May’s speech also draws attention away from the Scottish question. The reason Sturgeon needs time to reflect is the awkwardness of the situation she has boxed herself into. Her mandate for resisting Brexit stems from the 62% majority in Scotland for staying in the EU in the June 2016 referendum.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... snp-leader
... I guess May knows a bluffer when she sees one, as the grown-up, capable and savvy politician she undoubtedly is (whatever one thinks of her politics) - all as distinct from the Toytown SNP shower, Sturgeon included. Too right she's "rethinking her opinion" from 10 days ago now, given that bluff and bullshit have been duly called... man, it must be like shooting fish in a barrel for the Tories. Don't start what you can't finish, huh.
As for the rest of the stuff you've posted, Cookie, just think about the implications of what you've said - the case for ScotIndy is weak as at present and/or it would be foolhardy to call a second referendum in present circumstances (I heartily agree btw), precisely because the arguments for it simply do not stack up - and you know they'd lose, probably even more heavily than last time (support has fallen away further since the last vote, as per above poll). The SNP themselves are apparently resorting to spreading misinformation according to respected entrepreneur and columnist Kevin Hague - because if you haven't got a compelling argument, whipping up grievance on the basis of myths is all you're left with?
From Kevin Hague's blog:-
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/1 ... aghan.html
The bottom line for me is that, whatever the alleged whys and wherefores of an argument - if you resort to cherry picking, deliberate selective quoting of some bits of information but not others (and/or cite out of date information, without correcting such issues when duly called out on it), well, you've clearly lost (IMO).
From Kevin Hague's blog:-
Quote:
The problem with political debate in Scotland is not that people aren’t well informed, it’s that the SNP ensure they’re very well misinformed.
It’s not a sophisticated strategy, but it seems to be an effective one. By using Twitter, official party representatives can basically get away with saying whatever they like by avoiding having to deal with pesky journalists who tend to like to check facts before they report them. On social media, complete lies can be read by tens of thousands of people before they’re exposed and debunked, by which time it’s too late. People seeking to give themselves permission to ignore awkward facts have been satisfied and the tweeter’s mission is accomplished.
Take the example of the Scottish Government’s own GERS figures. When these showed Scotland’s economy being a positive contributor to the UK, they were rightly quoted by the SNP as authoritative statistics. Since the figures started showing Scotland effectively receiving cash from the rest of the UK (roughly £1,700 for every man woman and child in Scotland last year) the figures have instead been cynically and systematically undermined
The SNP and their social media mouth-pieces have been so successful with their campaign of misinformation that, whenever GERS figures are debated now, the following points have to be endlessly repeated: there’s no missing whisky duty, there’s no missing export income, the figures aren’t affected by corporate head-office locations, London infrastructure costs aren’t allocated to Scotland and the figures are not guesswork compiled by HM Treasury, they’re qualified National Statistics compiled and published by the Scottish Government
...
Of course it’s obvious why an SNP MP would want to falsely suggest that Scottish export figures to the UK are over-stated and those to the EU under-stated. One of the gaping holes in the SNP’s argument for Brexit as an independence trigger is the fact that Scotland sells more than four times as much to the rest of the UK as we do to the EU3. This means - if Brexit does turn out to mean UK/EU trade barriers exist - Scotland would risk damaging four times as much trade by ending up on the EU rather than the UK side of any such barriers.
So faced with a clear logical flaw in their argument, this SNP MP resorts to the tried and tested strategy of misrepresenting the facts and spreading misunderstanding. ...
It’s not a sophisticated strategy, but it seems to be an effective one. By using Twitter, official party representatives can basically get away with saying whatever they like by avoiding having to deal with pesky journalists who tend to like to check facts before they report them. On social media, complete lies can be read by tens of thousands of people before they’re exposed and debunked, by which time it’s too late. People seeking to give themselves permission to ignore awkward facts have been satisfied and the tweeter’s mission is accomplished.
Take the example of the Scottish Government’s own GERS figures. When these showed Scotland’s economy being a positive contributor to the UK, they were rightly quoted by the SNP as authoritative statistics. Since the figures started showing Scotland effectively receiving cash from the rest of the UK (roughly £1,700 for every man woman and child in Scotland last year) the figures have instead been cynically and systematically undermined
The SNP and their social media mouth-pieces have been so successful with their campaign of misinformation that, whenever GERS figures are debated now, the following points have to be endlessly repeated: there’s no missing whisky duty, there’s no missing export income, the figures aren’t affected by corporate head-office locations, London infrastructure costs aren’t allocated to Scotland and the figures are not guesswork compiled by HM Treasury, they’re qualified National Statistics compiled and published by the Scottish Government
...
Of course it’s obvious why an SNP MP would want to falsely suggest that Scottish export figures to the UK are over-stated and those to the EU under-stated. One of the gaping holes in the SNP’s argument for Brexit as an independence trigger is the fact that Scotland sells more than four times as much to the rest of the UK as we do to the EU3. This means - if Brexit does turn out to mean UK/EU trade barriers exist - Scotland would risk damaging four times as much trade by ending up on the EU rather than the UK side of any such barriers.
So faced with a clear logical flaw in their argument, this SNP MP resorts to the tried and tested strategy of misrepresenting the facts and spreading misunderstanding. ...
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/1 ... aghan.html
The bottom line for me is that, whatever the alleged whys and wherefores of an argument - if you resort to cherry picking, deliberate selective quoting of some bits of information but not others (and/or cite out of date information, without correcting such issues when duly called out on it), well, you've clearly lost (IMO).
Cavey wrote:
The bottom line for me is that, whatever the alleged whys and wherefores of an argument - if you resort to cherry picking, deliberate selective quoting of some bits of information but not others (and/or cite out of date information, without correcting such issues when duly called out on it), well, you've clearly lost (IMO).
How's your argument against global warming going? :wink:
Fine thanks; spookily enough there's no sign of any seawater lapping around my ankles as yet, I'm pleased to say (weird, I know). It's really quite pleasant out there in fact; both I and my daughters live to fight another day! Phew!
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
Yup! That's me!
I take solace from my de-catted Harley. Gotta love the smell of unburnt hydrocarbons and "cooking hot" aircooled engines, right? That evocative aroma.... so reminiscent of mis-spent youth. I'll love it 'til I die.
I take solace from my de-catted Harley. Gotta love the smell of unburnt hydrocarbons and "cooking hot" aircooled engines, right? That evocative aroma.... so reminiscent of mis-spent youth. I'll love it 'til I die.
Cavey wrote:
Fine thanks, no sign of any seawater lapping around my ankles as yet, I'm pleased to say. It's really quite pleasant out there; both I and my daughters live to fight another day! Cool.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
So the correct time to do something about it is when it's far too late?
Mr Dave wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Fine thanks, no sign of any seawater lapping around my ankles as yet, I'm pleased to say. It's really quite pleasant out there; both I and my daughters live to fight another day! Cool.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
So the correct time to do something about it is when it's far too late?
There's no point in worrying about something until it actually happens.
Seriously, I'm not discussing it, boys. You know my views, you're welcome to disagree, think I'm a monster or whatevs, I really don't care.
I'm talking about the case for Scottish independence, as apparently presented by the SNP and/or its representatives and/or fan-base. If you want to talk about this other stuff, there's a thread for that I believe. Go fill yer boots with my full blessing.
I'm talking about the case for Scottish independence, as apparently presented by the SNP and/or its representatives and/or fan-base. If you want to talk about this other stuff, there's a thread for that I believe. Go fill yer boots with my full blessing.
MaliA wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Fine thanks, no sign of any seawater lapping around my ankles as yet, I'm pleased to say. It's really quite pleasant out there; both I and my daughters live to fight another day! Cool.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
So the correct time to do something about it is when it's far too late?
There's no point in worrying about something until it actually happens.
It's why I've never use condoms!
Grim... wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Fine thanks, no sign of any seawater lapping around my ankles as yet, I'm pleased to say. It's really quite pleasant out there; both I and my daughters live to fight another day! Cool.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
So the correct time to do something about it is when it's far too late?
There's no point in worrying about something until it actually happens.
It's why I've never use condoms!
What can go wrong?
Not using condoms one minute, the oceans lapping at your feet the next. Bloody careless, I'd say.
Ban this sick filth!
Ban this sick filth!
Cavey wrote:
Fine thanks, no sign of any seawater lapping around my ankles as yet, I'm pleased to say. It's really quite pleasant out there; both I and my daughters live to fight another day! Cool.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
/starts 3.4 litre flat-six petrol engine with twin exhausts
Wrong thread though.
Ah, yes all of the facts.
Not talking about global warming, merely the hypocrisy of the above statement.
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