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Riots in England
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7557		 Page 4 of 25
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Craster wrote:
Oh good. I get to Bromley, and now they're between me and home and heading this way. Good job I blend in - Shirt, trousers, and a Waitrose carrier bag.

Set fire to the carrier bag and charge up the road waving it over your head, denouncing the capitalist oppressors.

Hang on, Waitrose is a co-op. Bollocks - get a Tesco bag.
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Was watching the footage of Lewisham, and a shop on fire - where were the fire brigade?


In lewisham, because a fire is likely to increase the property value.
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Ealing as well, said someone on twitter.
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Stroud remains eerily devoid of rioters.
Author:  Hearthly [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ndon-riots

Quote:
Those condemning the events of the past couple of nights in north London and elsewhere would do well to take a step back and consider the bigger picture: a country in which the richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest, where consumerism predicated on personal debt has been pushed for years as the solution to a faltering economy, and where, according to the OECD, social mobility is worse than any other developed country.

As Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett point out in The Spirit Level: Why Equality is Better for Everyone, phenomena usually described as "social problems" (crime, ill-health, imprisonment rates, mental illness) are far more common in unequal societies than ones with better economic distribution and less gap between the richest and the poorest. Decades of individualism, competition and state-encouraged selfishness – combined with a systematic crushing of unions and the ever-increasing criminalisation of dissent – have made Britain one of the most unequal countries in the developed world.
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
I hope London folks are safe and well.
Author:  Goddess Jasmine [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
There's been rioting at work too. Darryl might get called back to work if this continues.
Author:  Mimi [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:36 ]
Post subject:  Tottenham
Apparently riots have hit the leafy streets of Harrow (Arraaah! If you're Kate Nash/my mother).
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots

Quote:
Those condemning the events of the past couple of nights in north London and elsewhere would do well to take a step back and consider the bigger picture: a country in which the richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest, where consumerism predicated on personal debt has been pushed for years as the solution to a faltering economy, and where, according to the OECD, social mobility is worse than any other developed country.

As Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett point out in The Spirit Level: Why Equality is Better for Everyone, phenomena usually described as "social problems" (crime, ill-health, imprisonment rates, mental illness) are far more common in unequal societies than ones with better economic distribution and less gap between the richest and the poorest. Decades of individualism, competition and state-encouraged selfishness – combined with a systematic crushing of unions and the ever-increasing criminalisation of dissent – have made Britain one of the most unequal countries in the developed world.

Yes, because burning down the local Lidl is going to do something about all that. All the fat cats keep their money and stocks and shares there.

He also lost me at "crushing of the unions", but he had a point with "selfishness", at least.

Why is it that we're (a) more unequal and (b) more full of wankers than a comparable European country? Or is (a) caused by (b)?

Anyway, to be more serious, as I alluded to earlier the fact that there may be underlying issues which cause people to be pissed off doesn't detract from the fact that the people who run around looting are wankers. That's the issue. The wankers. Various parts of my family have been affected by the economic downturn (including a sister in council housing, on long term benefits with an unemployed partner and three kids), but not one of them has felt the need to start breaking into mobile phone shops.
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
So the poor people get improved social mobility and new trainers? That's a hell of a deal! Two for one, people!

Or, less sarcastically,

https://twitter.com/riptari/status/100652394240671744



https://twitter.com/riptari/status/100652430743699456




Quote:
PaulLewis: Police car containing solitary office just attacked by a dozen youths with bricks and sticks #Pembury #Hackney
PaulLewis: The car windows smashed in seconds; officer only managed to escape crowd. #Hackney #Pembury
He was probably asking for it though, dressed in that uniform and all. I'm sure they just wanted to hand him some pamphlets complaining about library closures.
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
So the poor people get improved social mobility and new trainers? That's a hell of a deal! Two for one, people!

Or, less sarcastically,

https://twitter.com/riptari/status/100652394240671744



https://twitter.com/riptari/status/100652430743699456




Quote:
PaulLewis: Police car containing solitary office just attacked by a dozen youths with bricks and sticks #Pembury #Hackney
PaulLewis: The car windows smashed in seconds; officer only managed to escape crowd. #Hackney #Pembury
He was probably asking for it though, dressed in that uniform and all. I'm sure they just wanted to hand him some pamphlets complaining about library closures.

I saw this one earlier from him:

Journalist here been beaten and camera stolen #Hackney

Well, the journalists are in league with the paramilitary police, right?
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Seven Sisters now too.
Author:  Hearthly [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
So the poor people get improved social mobility and new trainers? That's a hell of a deal! Two for one, people!

Or, less sarcastically,

https://twitter.com/riptari/status/100652394240671744



https://twitter.com/riptari/status/100652430743699456




Quote:
PaulLewis: Police car containing solitary office just attacked by a dozen youths with bricks and sticks #Pembury #Hackney
PaulLewis: The car windows smashed in seconds; officer only managed to escape crowd. #Hackney #Pembury
He was probably asking for it though, dressed in that uniform and all. I'm sure they just wanted to hand him some pamphlets complaining about library closures.


You're looking at it from the perspective of a privileged man of education and relative wealth.

It's important to remember how absolutely brutalised these communities were by the police in the 80s, it left scars that lasts for a generation or more.

I am absolutely not condoning what's happening, but without people stepping back and asking 'Why?' (beyond 'they just want to nick trainers'), it's never going to get better.
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Worth mentioning that in birmingham, BBC reporter said she sees mainly 14-15 year olds.
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Worth mentioning that in birmingham, BBC reporter said she sees mainly 14-15 year olds.

UNEMPLOYED 14-15 year olds, note.
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Worth mentioning that in birmingham, BBC reporter said she sees mainly 14-15 year olds.

UNEMPLOYED 14-15 year olds, note.



I bet they were regular users of the libraries as well.
Author:  NervousPete [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Be nice to me or I'll send my young borrowers after you next. I'm the new Fagin from my Central Library Command Centre.
Author:  NervousPete [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Anyway.

Liberal me says this is almost entirely the work of dickish kids and older thugs going for smashing, grabbing and lolz.

Liberal me adds, we need a new Sheriff in town. Robocop.

Also - so BBC, Twitter no longer the best thing since sliced bread now it's organising other sorts of mass-activities, eh?
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Craster - are you home yet? Failing that, still in one piece?
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
I read it was more to do with Blackberry's instant messaging services. Certainly, the kids at the pub use it loads.
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
MaliA wrote:
I read it was more to do with Blackberry's instant messaging services. Certainly, the kids at the pub use it loads.

Indeed. I loved some of the SHOCKED FACE responses to RIM saying they were helping the police. What is this, Saudi Arabia?
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I read it was more to do with Blackberry's instant messaging services. Certainly, the kids at the pub use it loads.

Indeed. I loved some of the SHOCKED FACE responses to RIM saying they were helping the police. What is this, Saudi Arabia?


They have the death penalty there. So peopleshould welcome such a move.

Diane Abbot was 'on the ground' in hackney just now.

Croydon on fire, and Ilford is suffering, too.

I might have to go to chavpub and mobilise my army.
Author:  NervousPete [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
MaliA wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Quote:
Getting back to the topic at hand, Telegraph are also reporting that the 16 year old girl who was battered by police and started the violence cannot be found, nor can any hard evidence that she definitely existed.


Hardly surprising - not least as I imagine the vast majority of people involved are unable to be found at present, otherwise they'd all be in custody. Who was reporting about her in the first place?



Twitter, IIRC, and it's probably easier to get a mob into a tizzy with the police if they think they've attacked a teenage girl. It's exactly the sort of thing that agent provacteurs of the state would shout to escalate a situation, then fade back into the shadows, leaving the steely fist of authority to stamp out dissent from the working class. It's certainly something I'd consider shouting if I wanted t move something over the edge.


This is nothing new. Throughout history false rumours have been spread to start riots before even newspapers were invented.

Though I have been hearing distressing reports that the Chinese are now rampaging, poisoning wells, defiling young maidens and sawing the head off the Prince Albert Memorial.
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 20:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Fuck me! Croydon is massively on fire.
Author:  Decca [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Update from Chesterfield at 21:00

No looters sighted.
Author:  Trooper [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
I was supposed to be out for a few beers in shoreditch on Wednesday, I think I'll see what happens tomorrow night before I decide to go or not!
Author:  Cras [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Craster - are you home yet? Failing that, still in one piece?


Just got in. Very disappointed. Nothing more controversial than roaming groups of yoofs and a potato thrown at M&S. Oh, and homebase is being looted at the moment, it would appear. Homebase? Really?
Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
From my mate:

Quote:
* just went outside (dont tell me off)
*fucking weird atmosphere
*what worries me is that all the people with masks are drinking
*a few fires burning on the street
*heard someone say "im going to go and do mare street"
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Craster wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Craster - are you home yet? Failing that, still in one piece?


Just got in. Very disappointed. Nothing more controversial than roaming groups of yoofs and a potato thrown at M&S. Oh, and homebase is being looted at the moment, it would appear. Homebase? Really?



What sort of potato?
Author:  Cras [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Currently my common sense is warring with an urge to take my camera out. Also, I'm out of fags and everywhere is fucking closed.

Ooh, sirens!
Author:  Decca [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
They have just torched the big primark in Birmingham.
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Craster wrote:
Currently my common sense is warring with an urge to take my camera out. Also, I'm out of fags and everywhere is fucking closed.

Ooh, sirens!



Has been on the news that people with cameras aren't being terribly well received.
Author:  Cras [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Quote:


What sort of potato?


Desiree. It is Bromley, after all.
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Decca wrote:
They have just torched the big primark in Birmingham.


That's the train station. Shit.
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Craster wrote:
Quote:


What sort of potato?


Desiree. It is Bromley, after all.



It's the multitool of potatoes.
Author:  Cras [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Sure? I thought Primark was down..uh...the one parallel to Corporation St.
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Where is primark?
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
18, new street.
Author:  Decca [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Torygraph have a good live thing going, it's covering brum as well. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -live.html

edit: primark thing comes form a chap on SA who saw it for himself, probably find out more about Birmingham in the morning.
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Craster wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Craster - are you home yet? Failing that, still in one piece?


Just got in. Very disappointed. Nothing more controversial than roaming groups of yoofs and a potato thrown at M&S. Oh, and homebase is being looted at the moment, it would appear. Homebase? Really?

Mrs K was worried about you - we're both pleased you're safe!

Mali - just saw Croydon on BBC. Fucking hell. Someone's going to die if this keeps up. And will people still be wanking themselves off quite so much then over The Brave Proletariat Sticking It To The Evil Tories?

Don't they shoot looters and such in the States?

Unrelatedly - guy on BBC news on the phone sounded just like the helicopter pilot in Mercs 2.
Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Unrelatedly - guy on BBC news on the phone sounded just like the helicopter pilot in Mercs 2.

The irish guy? He was ace, he summed it up really well.
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Decca wrote:
Torygraph have a good live thing going, it's covering brum as well. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -live.html

edit: primark thing comes form a chap on SA who saw it for himself, probably find out more about Birmingham in the morning.

Cheers!

And for those who like their coverage of civil disorder to be a bit more lefty, the Graun's got a good feed at http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/ ... night-live

Snappy url!

@Gnomes - yep, that's the guy. After he'd finished Mrs K, usually quite a liberal sort, said, "can't they send in the Army and shoot the fuckers?" I assume she meant the rioters, rather than the Irishers.
Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Smart woman, your wife.
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Smart woman, your wife.

True - oftentimes it's hard to tell we Irish from the rioters.
Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
True - oftentimes it's hard to tell we Irish from the rioters.

Get them to say '33'. If it comes out 'dirty tree', shoot to kill. Or whichever way round is your preference.
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Mali - just saw Croydon on BBC. Fucking hell. Someone's going to die if this keeps up. And will people still be wanking themselves off quite so much then over The Brave Proletariat Sticking It To The Evil Tories?


It's insane, it really is. I can't fucking believe that whilst this is going on, Abbott is talking about community youth projects and funding for them.

I think it is way, way, beyond the bourgoise controlling the means pf production and removing it from the proletariat, it's a case of unadulterated violence, social issues went out of the window a long, long time ago. Evreyone's probably pissed up and wanting a ruck. The stupid thing is, that with all the rebuilding that will need to be done, that's going to fuck up these areas even more.

Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Don't they shoot looters and such in the States?



We're not savages, and I think that the fact the police haven't driven a transit through the crowd at 50mph is remarkable.
Author:  sdg [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Unrelatedly - guy on BBC news on the phone sounded just like the helicopter pilot in Mercs 2.

The irish guy? He was ace, he summed it up really well.

He was brilliant.
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Clapham now.
Author:  Decca [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
Elephant and castle kicking off.
Author:  MrChris [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 21:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tottenham
MaliA wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Mali - just saw Croydon on BBC. Fucking hell. Someone's going to die if this keeps up. And will people still be wanking themselves off quite so much then over The Brave Proletariat Sticking It To The Evil Tories?


It's insane, it really is. I can't fucking believe that whilst this is going on, Abbott is talking about community youth projects and funding for them.


I know, she's a mental person at the best of times, but now's really not the time.

Quote:
I think it is way, way, beyond the bourgoise controlling the means pf production and removing it from the proletariat, it's a case of unadulterated violence, social issues went out of the window a long, long time ago. Evreyone's probably pissed up and wanting a ruck.

Just one photo, but:

Image

Ah, the inevitability of the brand.

Quote:
The stupid thing is, that with all the rebuilding that will need to be done, that's going to fuck up these areas even more.


In Abbott's defence (I'll be having a bath shortly to wash off the unclean feeling), she did make that point. This isn't, as you say, about social issues - these people are shitting on their own doorstep, fucking up employment worse than it may already be, and terrorising their own communities. The Irish Guy put it very well indeed.
Quote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Don't they shoot looters and such in the States?


We're not savages, and I think that the fact the police haven't driven a transit through the crowd at 50mph is remarkable.

Heh.
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