Be Excellent To Each Other
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/

Gas Guzzling Money Pits
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1635
Page 236 of 614

Author:  Grim... [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 15:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Trooper wrote:
He is a she, and she is bonkers. The website is designed that way on purpose...

8)
Oh fuck off!

Attachment:
zomg.png

Author:  KovacsC [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 15:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

DavPaz wrote:
zaphod79 wrote:
myp wrote:
What are the most reputable leasing companies? I have precisely zero knowledge of this.


One of the guys here leases his and got it via one of the *worst* websites I have ever seen

http://www.lingscars.com/

However the price worked out for him and he's had it about a year so far with no hassles

ARG! MY EYES!!



She was on Dragons Den...

Author:  metalangel [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 15:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

myp wrote:
I'm looking at the 1.6 TDCi Fiesta Zetec S for when I have to get a car again. £20 road tax!


Image

Author:  BikNorton [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 15:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

At Ling's, £372/mo for a Twingo Gordini over 3 years works out about £100 less than I paid for mine. Except mine's got the Cup chassis.

Author:  flis [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

I've been dropping hints around the MD this week, concerning my car. He said last year he'd look at getting me something in the spring so yesterday I slipped into conversation that it had 75k on the clock (which is a lot for a 3.5 year old car on a 36 mile long island) and I'm only getting 38mpg out of it (shut up, nothing to do with how I drive it). Plus, over Christmas it needed a new hose to the turbo charger so stuff is starting to go wrong with it...

I'm patiently waiting to be told I can go shopping for a new one. I have no idea what to get.

Author:  myp [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

metalangel wrote:
myp wrote:
I'm looking at the 1.6 TDCi Fiesta Zetec S for when I have to get a car again. £20 road tax!


Image

That's a Micra.

Author:  KovacsC [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

metalangel wrote:
myp wrote:
I'm looking at the 1.6 TDCi Fiesta Zetec S for when I have to get a car again. £20 road tax!


Image


This one Flis..

Author:  flis [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

KovacsC wrote:
metalangel wrote:
myp wrote:
I'm looking at the 1.6 TDCi Fiesta Zetec S for when I have to get a car again. £20 road tax!


*Picture of a cunting Barbie pink Micra*


This one Flis..


I have no words.

Author:  Cras [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

flis wrote:
I've been dropping hints around the MD this week, concerning my car. He said last year he'd look at getting me something in the spring so yesterday I slipped into conversation that it had 75k on the clock (which is a lot for a 3.5 year old car on a 36 mile long island) and I'm only getting 38mpg out of it (shut up, nothing to do with how I drive it). Plus, over Christmas it needed a new hose to the turbo charger so stuff is starting to go wrong with it...

I'm patiently waiting to be told I can go shopping for a new one. I have no idea what to get.


I thought you just got a new one then stacked it in the car park?

Author:  KovacsC [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Get an electric one?

Author:  myp [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

myp wrote:
Craster wrote:
zaphod79 wrote:
One of the guys here leases his and got it via one of the *worst* websites I have ever seen


Grim... leases his from some shady place that doesn't even have a website.

What about you?

Author:  Cras [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

From Lombard, but via a scheme the wife's employer operates.

Author:  Zardoz [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

myp wrote:
Craster wrote:
Grim... leases his from some shady place that doesn't even have a website.

What about you?

Grim... bought Craster outright.

Author:  flis [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Craster wrote:
flis wrote:
I've been dropping hints around the MD this week, concerning my car. He said last year he'd look at getting me something in the spring so yesterday I slipped into conversation that it had 75k on the clock (which is a lot for a 3.5 year old car on a 36 mile long island) and I'm only getting 38mpg out of it (shut up, nothing to do with how I drive it). Plus, over Christmas it needed a new hose to the turbo charger so stuff is starting to go wrong with it...

I'm patiently waiting to be told I can go shopping for a new one. I have no idea what to get.


I thought you just got a new one then stacked it in the car park?


Heh, I got the car that was sat in the garage up at the office, in August, when I passed my test. Now I want a new, new one. What's all shiny and fast.

Author:  metalangel [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 17:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

MOT and service done. Every time I drive off after being parked a metallic 'ping!' is heard.

The mechanic agrees with my theory that it's likely to be one of the parking brake shoes retracting. He said the Celica, unlike many cars, has a dedicated parking brake that sees no wear apart from when it's used, and suggested when I was driving along (if I do this, it'll be in an empty parking lot!) just pulling it on a tiny bit so the wheel rubs it, as that might sort it out.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 17:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

metalangel wrote:
the Celica, unlike many cars, has a dedicated parking brake
Pretty much all cars with rear discs have a dedicated parking brake. If you clamp a disc calliper on when its hot, it gives way as it cools and then the car rolls off; that's what happened to all those Citroen Xaras back in the day.

Did you take it to Mike?

Author:  metalangel [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 18:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

B.E.T.S. in Thornhill. I'd forgotten about him!

The guy said a number of cars apply the parking brake to with you use the footbrake (which is a new one on me) so I dunno.

Author:  BikNorton [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 18:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
metalangel wrote:
the Celica, unlike many cars, has a dedicated parking brake
Pretty much all cars with rear discs have a dedicated parking brake. If you clamp a disc calliper on when its hot, it gives way as it cools and then the car rolls off; that's what happened to all those Citroen Xaras back in the day.

Did you take it to Mike?
The advice for people taking their cars to trackdays is "JESUS FUCK DON'T PUT THE HANDBRAKE ON IN THE PITS!" because you might weld the pads to the discs. Instead, you're told to leave it in gear and if you're really worried use chocks.

Dunno how much of that is just arse-covering.

Author:  GazChap [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 18:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Pretty much all cars with rear discs have a dedicated parking brake.

:this:

Author:  kalmar [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 18:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

It's that it has to be cable operated, so that you've got a backup in case the hydraulic brakes fail. That's very unlikely now with dual-circuit as standard, but it's probably been a law since 1912 or whatever. That's why the Americans call it an emergency brake, as they don't use it for parking.

Cars with electric parking brakes still have a cable between the motor and the mechanism, I suspect to comply with that.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 18:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

kalmar wrote:
That's why the Americans call it an emergency brake, as they don't use it for parking.
I'd say that's more to do with them all driving automatics with transmission lock, so not needing to use it for parking. The people with manual transmissions presumably still rely on it just as much as we do.

Even then, some of them park with it -- like everyone parked on a hill in San Francisco (they also kerb the wheels. SF is hilly.)

Author:  krazywookie [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 18:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

kalmar wrote:
It's that it has to be cable operated, so that you've got a backup in case the hydraulic brakes fail. That's very unlikely now with dual-circuit as standard, but it's probably been a law since 1912 or whatever. That's why the Americans call it an emergency brake, as they don't use it for parking.

Cars with electric parking brakes still have a cable between the motor and the mechanism, I suspect to comply with that.

correctomundo, also the electric windy park brake is proper evil when it goes wrong.

GazChap wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Pretty much all cars with rear discs have a dedicated parking brake.

:this:

really? I'd say only about 30% of cars have this, its mostly a jap or high-end thing. It is good though, the alternative is a large threaded thing that lives inside the rear calliper and fucks up every now and then in an un-fixable manner.

some volvo V70 models have a park brake that adjusts itself electrically (it still lives inside the calliper mind and has a cable to it) and to wind the piston back to put new pads in you have to plug in diagnostics and tell it to wind back!

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 18:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

krazywookie wrote:
really? I'd say only about 30% of cars have this, its mostly a jap or high-end thing. It is good though, the alternative is a large threaded thing that lives inside the rear calliper and fucks up every now and then in an un-fixable manner.
Are you talking about an internal shoe brake mounted inside a small drum which is itself part of one rear disc? Because that's also a "dedicated parking brake" in my book, as it's a separate mechanism. What I meant was, they don't use the disc calliper itself. Presumably these could suffer at track days, as the drum could be very hot.

The alternative is an entirely separate housing with a drum somewhere on the rear axle.

Quote:
some volvo V70 models have a park brake that adjusts itself electrically (it still lives inside the calliper mind and has a cable to it) and to wind the piston back to put new pads in you have to plug in diagnostics and tell it to wind back!
These auto-adjust things are, I am reliably informed, "fucking hard work". (My dad worked for 20+ years in a company that made brakes; I have a lot of second hand knowledge in this area!)

Author:  kalmar [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 19:14 ]
Post subject:  Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
kalmar wrote:
That's why the Americans call it an emergency brake, as they don't use it for parking.
I'd say that's more to do with them all driving automatics with transmission lock, so not needing to use it for parking. The people with manual transmissions presumably still rely on it just as much as we do.


Yes, that's precisely what I meant :)

Neither do I now either, in fact the one on my van hasn't even worked since the day after its MOT...

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 19:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

kalmar wrote:
Yes, that's precisely what I meant :)
Walking away from a car and leaving the handbrake off freaks me out. But on the few occasions we've shared a car, Danielle has managed to drive off with the handbrake on, because she doesn't think to disengage or even check it.

Author:  krazywookie [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 19:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Are you talking about an internal shoe brake mounted inside a small drum which is itself part of one rear disc? Because that's also a "dedicated parking brake" in my book, as it's a separate mechanism. What I meant was, they don't use the disc calliper itself. Presumably these could suffer at track days, as the drum could be very hot.

The alternative is an entirely separate housing with a drum somewhere on the rear axle.


I was talking about disc brakes that have a small drum built into the centre that is the hand brake mechanism (seperate), I have never seen this done on only one side though, usually its both sides.

nearly all fords and most french stuff use a dual purpose rear calliper that works as a normal brake untill you pull the handbrake then a small lever and worm gear type thing take over. I used to work at ford so maybe thats why I think its the norm.

Against all the odds the drum in disc type brake has always been the best system, especially for racing. So much so that I believe nissan used it on their new GTR track monster thing.

the drum on the rear axle thing has been tried (see lancia aurelia, various open wheel racing cars (although this was to reduce unsprung weight) and even landrover have something similar) and works fine (with the exception of landrover ;) ) The problems come when servicing because you have to dismantle drive shafts and they can be very hard to get to. anyway most modern cars are fwd so there is no rear axle as such.

Author:  krazywookie [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 19:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Image
A Lancia transaxle with in board brakes :nerd:

Author:  metalangel [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 19:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

kalmar wrote:
That's why the Americans call it an emergency brake, as they don't use it for parking.


Morons don't. Expecting the transmission to hold the weight of the car in place on its own isn't wise.

(note: I am not calling Mrs G a moron)

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
everyone parked on a hill in San Francisco (they also kerb the wheels. SF is hilly.)


On the really hilly streets (such as the one leading to the Coit Tower from Columbus Square) you are instructed to park perpendicular to the hill. Likewise, while visiting Mrs Meaty's older sister at her old house in Knowle, Brizzle, I had to find somewhere else to park as the handbrake alone wouldn't hold the Octavia on the hill, and I didn't trust curbing AND putting it in gear to be enough.

Author:  Zio [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 19:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Changing the subject slightly - I just bought a new car, after 5 months of borrowing my brother's poor old Celica ST.

It's an Audi A3 1.8 T-Sport, so turbocharged and easily the quickest car I've ever had. It's an S-reg, so 14 years old, but in immaculate condition (seriously, it's probably in better nick than the '56-plate Civic I had was when I sold that) and has 128,000 miles on the clock, so a lot, but since I only paid £1050 for it (plus it's taxed till June and MOT'd till September), I'm pretty happy.

There's a few minor niggles, the most pressing of which is that the coolant temp gauge doesn't work, so will need to get that sorted. Also the radio has an annoying glitch with the volume control which appears to have plagued all Audis of that vintage, but it's hardly a major issue. Mechanically it all seems very sound, which is the main thing. So yeah: 'tis good. Makes me feel a dick for spending so much on the Civic like I did.

Author:  kalmar [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 20:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Zio wrote:
I just bought a new car [..] It's an Audi A3 1.8 T [..] Mechanically it all seems very sound, which is the main thing. So yeah: 'tis good. Makes me feel a dick for spending so much on the Civic like I did.


Yay! Same engine as my Audi! Start saving!

metalangel wrote:
kalmar wrote:
That's why the Americans call it an emergency brake, as they don't use it for parking.


Morons don't. Expecting the transmission to hold the weight of the car in place on its own isn't wise.

(note: I am not calling Mrs G a moron)

Oh, just me eh, that's fine :p

I disagree anyway - The parking pawl will not let the car move, a flaky handbrake often will. It's not wise to use just the transmission brake on a very steep hill though, as you might have trouble getting it to disengage - so I use both in that case (subject the handbrake working). But the rest of the time, not a problem, bang it into park.

Author:  krazywookie [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 20:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

kalmar wrote:
I disagree anyway - The parking pawl will not let the car move, a flaky handbrake often will. It's not wise to use just the transmission brake on a very steep hill though, as you might have trouble getting it to disengage - so I use both in that case (subject the handbrake working). But the rest of the time, not a problem, bang it into park.

I have light to shed here, the parking pawl has a safety system to stop it being ripped off, I know this because I put an auto into park while doing about 20mph once by accident. What happened was a loud clicking noise and thereafter it was business as usual. thinking about it that means that if you parked on a steep hill in park E-brake off and then someone leaned on it or something then force 'x' overcomes the park safety mech and BOOM, its Traffic Panic at the intersection.

Author:  kalmar [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 20:33 ]
Post subject:  Gas Guzzling Money Pits

krazywookie wrote:
kalmar wrote:
I disagree anyway - The parking pawl will not let the car move, a flaky handbrake often will. It's not wise to use just the transmission brake on a very steep hill though, as you might have trouble getting it to disengage - so I use both in that case (subject the handbrake working). But the rest of the time, not a problem, bang it into park.

I have light to shed here, the parking pawl has a safety system to stop it being ripped off, I know this because I put an auto into park while doing about 20mph once by accident. What happened was a loud clicking noise and thereafter it was business as usual. thinking about it that means that if you parked on a steep hill in park E-brake off and then someone leaned on it or something then force 'x' overcomes the park safety mech and BOOM, its Traffic Panic at the intersection.


No, that's not how it works, it's that the shape of the pawl and the weak spring pressure to engage it is such that it won't if the gear is turning, it just bounces over the top. Once the pawl does go in it ain't coming out again by itself.
That's how it is on the one I took to bits anyway, disclaimer :p

Author:  krazywookie [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 20:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

kalmar wrote:
krazywookie wrote:
kalmar wrote:
I disagree anyway - The parking pawl will not let the car move, a flaky handbrake often will. It's not wise to use just the transmission brake on a very steep hill though, as you might have trouble getting it to disengage - so I use both in that case (subject the handbrake working). But the rest of the time, not a problem, bang it into park.

I have light to shed here, the parking pawl has a safety system to stop it being ripped off, I know this because I put an auto into park while doing about 20mph once by accident. What happened was a loud clicking noise and thereafter it was business as usual. thinking about it that means that if you parked on a steep hill in park E-brake off and then someone leaned on it or something then force 'x' overcomes the park safety mech and BOOM, its Traffic Panic at the intersection.


No, that's not how it works, it's that the shape of the pawl and the weak spring pressure to engage it is such that it won't if the gear is turning, it just bounces over the top. Once the pawl does go in it ain't coming out again by itself.
That's how it is on the one I took to bits anyway, disclaimer :p

aaaahhhhh. *gets put in place*

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 20:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Zio wrote:
Changing the subject slightly - I just bought a new car, after 5 months of borrowing my brother's poor old Celica ST.

It's an Audi A3 1.8 T-Sport, so turbocharged and easily the quickest car I've ever had. It's an S-reg, so 14 years old, but in immaculate condition (seriously, it's probably in better nick than the '56-plate Civic I had was when I sold that) and has 128,000 miles on the clock, so a lot, but since I only paid £1050 for it (plus it's taxed till June and MOT'd till September), I'm pretty happy.

There's a few minor niggles, the most pressing of which is that the coolant temp gauge doesn't work, so will need to get that sorted. Also the radio has an annoying glitch with the volume control which appears to have plagued all Audis of that vintage, but it's hardly a major issue. Mechanically it all seems very sound, which is the main thing. So yeah: 'tis good. Makes me feel a dick for spending so much on the Civic like I did.



Excellent! I just worked out that since getting the 306, it has cost £140 a month, including fuel at £1.40 a litre. Which is pleasing. Hopefully yours will be the same!
Also, you probably won't mind about revering into Walls/posts/most things as it's awesome value!

EDIT: 22,000 miles @ 50mpg *4.54*£1.4+£1,000+£400/30

Author:  Grim... [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 23:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

metalangel wrote:
kalmar wrote:
That's why the Americans call it an emergency brake, as they don't use it for parking.

Morons don't. Expecting the transmission to hold the weight of the car in place on its own isn't wise.

Wuss.

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 23:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

I lease my car. And I know about money and shit. So yeah, lease. *



*may only have leased car as it brought delivery date forward 3 months.

Author:  kalmar [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 16:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

I'm sure Chinny would post this if he was here:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C271758

Author:  Grim... [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 18:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Oddly enough, a mate picked me up from the train station in his new M3 last night.
Bugger me, it was a bit cramped :S
I know I'm a big bugger, but even so...

Author:  Grim... [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 18:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

kalmar wrote:
I'm sure Chinny would post this if he was here:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C271758

That isn't worth £11k, I don't care who it belonged to.

Author:  Cras [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 18:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Grim... wrote:
Oddly enough, a mate picked me up from the train station in his new M3 last night.
Bugger me, it was a bit cramped :S
I know I'm a big bugger, but even so...


Less cramped than, for example, my car though, I'd assume?

Author:  Grim... [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 19:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Craster wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Oddly enough, a mate picked me up from the train station in his new M3 last night.
Bugger me, it was a bit cramped :S
I know I'm a big bugger, but even so...


Less cramped than, for example, my car though, I'd assume?

Do you know, I'm not convinced. There's far more room in the back of the BMW than your Clio, obviously, but the front really was bad.

Author:  BikNorton [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 23:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

You haven't seen cramped til you've been in a twingo gordini. I actually have to remove clothes to fit in the drivers seat.

Author:  Cras [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 23:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

You're a decent sized dude and you bought a car the same size as a g-wiz. You brought it upon yourself rather :)

Author:  Cavey [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

The all-new Porsche Boxster has arrived:

http://www.porsche.com/uk/

I love it personally; slight echoes of the Carrera GT?
My only concern would be that bloody electro-bollocks steering?

Mind you, nearly 40mpg from a mid-engine, non-turbo, pretty damn quick petrol roadster can't be bad (and Porsche's claimed performance/mpg figures are actually pretty real world and attainable in my experience, unlike the likes of BMW etc.).

Author:  Grim... [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

It's got a bit of a fat bum.

Author:  BikNorton [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

I like it.

They're turning it into the 911 cabrio, though.

Author:  GazChap [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Electric power steering doesn't have to be shit. The GT86 has it and apparently handles bloody superbly.

Author:  Cavey [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

GazChap wrote:
Electric power steering doesn't have to be shit. The GT86 has it and apparently handles bloody superbly.
b

Yeah I read that too mate. Sounds promising I must say - but do you trust bloody motoring journos though?

Author:  Cavey [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

BikNorton wrote:
I like it.

They're turning it into the 911 cabrio, though.


Yeah, it shares so many parts and has the same basic platform though, so I guess that's inevitable? (I think that's a good thing though - 911 cab with a few boxes ticked costs £80k or more - why bother? Boxster S is very nearly as fast and being mid- rather than rear engined, is a better handler, for half the dosh!)

Author:  Cavey [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 13:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits

Grim... wrote:
It's got a bit of a fat bum.


Yeah, but fat bottomed girls make the rockin' world go round, man! :metul:

Page 236 of 614 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/