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Resident Evil 4
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Author:  WTB [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 16:17 ]
Post subject:  Resident Evil 4
I've somehow managed to completely avoid playing this up until the other day, despite having both a GameCube and a PS2 when the game originally came out for each system. However, upon purchase of my Wii, I decided to get "Wii Edition". And I have to say, so far, it really is fucking outstanding.

What does everyone else think? I have no basis for comparison, but the Wii controls really do work extremely well with this game.
Author:  Plissken [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 16:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Best game of the last gen. And yes I include the Halos (yawn) and GTAs in that. Every single moment of is not only coded to perfection, designed to perfection but it just has so much love poured into it. One of those games where you suspect that the developers were having as much gleeful fun making it as you are playing it.
Author:  hollocks [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 16:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
I liked it, but no where near as much as the rest of the world seems to.
Author:  CUS [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 16:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
I haven't played it beyond a quick ten minute go, but have watched my neighbour play through approximately 2/3 of it. I was quite impressed with some things (the combat is massively better than before)

However:

I have a strong suspicion that the only reason it gets so much attention is because all the other Resident Evil games are so horrendous and upsettingly successful, but by this one being actually quite good, it's some kind of validation for the series' fans. Then again, I do think the other games are some of the worst 'big' games ever made, so I'll admit to a slight degree of bias.
Author:  GazChap [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 16:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
No. Strafe. Controls.
Author:  Dr Lave [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 16:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
It's a grand, grand game. And even though a full play through took me twenty something hours it's incredibly close to being "all killer and no filler."

I mean the Mercenaries mode you unlock is better than most games on it's own.

I bought the game again thanks to what I heard about the Wii controls, and they are such a massive improvement* that I'm genuinely disappointed that Resi 5 will be on my 360. It also beggers belief that no ones gone "oh that's how you do it" and started churning out games that steal the controls.

* An improvement over perfect traditional controls mind you. Resi 4 isn't meant to be a circle-strafe dodge-a-thon it's meant to be slow and precise and threatening and awesome. To be honest I'm equally impressed that they managed to keep that 'fear' even though you can now shoot like a demon.
Author:  Dr Lave [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 16:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
GazChap wrote:
No. Strafe. Controls.


You posted this whilst i was writing, and with polite kindness and what not, it really urks me that people think that Resident Evil 4 should have strafe controls despite the fact that it would destroy the nature of the game.

Not being able to sidestep out of the way of a zombie is what makes the game. It's extremely intentional and excellent and right and proper.
Author:  Cras [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 17:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Lave wrote:
Not being able to sidestep out of the way of a zombie is what makes the game. It's extremely intentional and excellent and right and proper.


When you last moved around someone in the street, did you rotate on the spot, move aside, then rotate again to regain your initial heading?
Author:  ChocoboOfDoom [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 17:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
jonarob wrote:

What does everyone else think? I have no basis for comparison, but the Wii controls really do work extremely well with this game.


You can use the Gamecube controller with the Wii Edition, can't you? Compare it with that.
Author:  WTB [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 17:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Hah, unfortunately I sold my GC a while ago. Along with controllers. Quite annoying because I think I got about £2 for each controller, but with the Wii coming out, they've gained serious value.
Author:  GazChap [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 17:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Lave wrote:
Not being able to sidestep out of the way of a zombie is what makes the game. It's extremely intentional and excellent and right and proper.

Not having strafe controls in a first person or third person game is bordering on criminal neglect ;)

As Craster says, what would you do if you encountered someone in the street?

If "sidestepping out of the way of a zombie" would be a problem with strafe controls, make the zoms harder to escape with strafing. Make them lunge at you so that they can grab you mid-strafe if necessary.

Not being able to strafe meant I physically couldn't get the hang of the controls, despite a week of playing.
Author:  Plissken [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 17:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
GazChap wrote:
No. Strafe. Controls.


Get. Out. Now.

It is people like you who are killing gaming.

And I'm being semi-serious.
Author:  Plissken [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 17:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Craster wrote:
When you last moved around someone in the street, did you rotate on the spot, move aside, then rotate again to regain your initial heading?


Given you are fighting people with tentacles coming out of their heads and giant monsters and reanimated bodies, do you think realism is even on the menu?
Author:  lasermink [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 17:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Oh, come on, if you were mauled by a zombie (in the street, or whatever), would you solve the problem by "sidestepping it"? Of course not, you would run away a bit, then turn around and shoot it in the head*. Which is exactly what you should be doing in Resident Evil. Jesus, the damage FPSs have done to some people.

* Assuming, of course, that you could outrun it and were equipped with a firearm.
Author:  devilman [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 17:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Plissken wrote:
Best game of the last gen. And yes I include the Halos (yawn) and GTAs in that. Every single moment of is not only coded to perfection, designed to perfection but it just has so much love poured into it. One of those games where you suspect that the developers were having as much gleeful fun making it as you are playing it.


Well that saved me some typing. :)
Author:  Dr Lave [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 18:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
I'm with Plisskin with this one.

And
Craster wrote:
Lave wrote:
Not being able to sidestep out of the way of a zombie is what makes the game. It's extremely intentional and excellent and right and proper.


When you last moved around someone in the street, did you rotate on the spot, move aside, then rotate again to regain your initial heading?


Yeah just like how 'real' fire fights people spiralling aorund their targets, walking sideways shooting constantly.

Putting strafe in Resident Evil will fundamentally destroy the mechanics the game was designed around. It lets the game be slow and threatening, without having to speed the thing up so if it offers a challenge for twitch fiends trained on decades of strafing.

Regardless controlling you character should be about the game and not simulating real life.
Author:  Plissken [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 18:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Lave wrote:
I'm with Plisskin with this one.


Thankyou, Lafe.*

Quote:
Putting strafe in Resident Evil will fundamentally destroy the mechanics the game was designed around. It lets the game be slow and threatening, without having to speed the thing up so if it offers a challenge for twitch fiends trained on decades of strafing.


The problem with Jet Set Willy is the character could only jump left or right and not up. How stupid is that? That is the problem with bloody FPSes, all those twitch gamers spoinging around like Bugaboo with ADHD because that is totally, like, realistic.

And if you can't get your head round the controls after a week, then you are Mr Cacky Hands Spack Face.

Honestly. Some people don't deserve great things.


*Sodding Kojima.
Author:  CUS [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 18:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Plissken wrote:
That is the problem with bloody FPSes, all those twitch gamers spoinging around like Bugaboo

Racist.
Author:  Cthulhu Steev [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 19:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Plissken wrote:
spoinging around like Bugaboo with ADHD


Image
*nom nom* "Yummy ADHD"/
Author:  RuySan [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 19:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
i wouldn't say that its the bets game of the last generation because of Wind Waker, but its one of those rare games that everything feels absolutely right. And it's certainly even more enjoyable with the wii controls.

And i never felt the need for strafe controls. In fact i think they are overused in gaming
Author:  Zardoz [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 19:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil 4 is the best game I ever played on the Gamecube. Polished to fuck.
Author:  Dr Lave [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 19:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Plissken wrote:
Lave wrote:
I'm with Plisskin with this one.


Thankyou, Lafe.*

*Sodding Kojima.


Scroll down and check? Far too much effort. For I am rubbish.
Author:  Sledge [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 20:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Not a lot to add other than agreement that it's one of the best games knocking about and that side-stepping would ruin it. One of the few games that I was happy to pay full whack for.
Author:  Rebel at Tescos [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 20:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
The lack of zombies and bag-headed chainsaw guys in this thread is positively disturbing.

Image
Author:  WTB [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 21:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Just played this for three hours. I've just rescued the president's daughter from the church. Bloody great fun - only quit because my arm was aching.
Author:  CUS [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 21:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
jonarob wrote:
I've just rescued the president's daughter from the church. Bloody great fun - only quit because my arm was aching.

That's what bashing the bishop will get you.
Author:  RBR2 [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 22:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
:insincere:
Author:  Dr Lave [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 22:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Shit your going to get me playing this again now....
Author:  WTB [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 22:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
mrak wrote:
This afternoon I played the Wii version for an hour and forty minutes in pro mode and I'm up to the start of the island and I'm having as much fun with it now as I did when I first played on the 'Cube at launch.

Also, thanks to the Wii-controls, I'm now really good at Mercenaries rather than utterly atrocious as before. Playing as Krauser is fucking awesome. And Separate Ways is brilliant, being like a big messy fanwank, even though the continuity doesn't match up that well.


Not really sure what you're on about here, but I'm pretty sure it'll all make sense in a couple of days :)

Is Umbrella just not featured in this game at all, then? I'm a little confused as to how someone who happened to encounter zombies infected with a virus is now encountering people infected with a "crazy" parasite. Is it a "coincidence" or are Umbrella somehow involved? I mean, I knew RE4 was supposed to be a separate thing to the other RE games, but the only way it seems to tie-in at the moment is that Leon is in it.
Author:  RBR2 [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 22:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
:insincere:
Author:  WTB [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 23:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
It's not the bit in the church just after I rescue the girl for the first time is it? Because I accidentally skipped that cut scene. I was a bit miffed.

edit: Ah, Krauser is someone I haven't encountered yet. Good!
Author:  RBR2 [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
:insincere:
Author:  markg [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
CUS wrote:
I have a strong suspicion that the only reason it gets so much attention is because all the other Resident Evil games are so horrendous and upsettingly successful, but by this one being actually quite good, it's some kind of validation for the series' fans. Then again, I do think the other games are some of the worst 'big' games ever made, so I'll admit to a slight degree of bias.

Same bias I had before I played it then. RE4 is amazing, even if you hate every other Resident Evil game.
Author:  Plissken [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Never played the others.
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
I really tried to like all the other RE games -- I certainly enjoyed watching them being played, as I liked the tension and the setting and the incredibly awful dialog -- but they always felt so clumsy to play that I never managed to enjoy even 10 minutes playing them myself. RE4 is a revelation, it really is excellent. I played the thing right through on the Cube and I'm most of the way through again on the Wii (I'm close to fighting Salazar). I am determined to finish it again so I can play Separate Ways.

And I agree with Lave -- having to not move whilst aiming is a key part of the feel of the game. It would really detract from the tension if they removed that restriction. See also: people whining that there isn't enough ammo. Same argument; this isn't Gears of War, it just has the same camera angle.
Author:  devilman [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
From the RE games I've played, they've steadily improved as they've gone on but they'd always been annoying (crap controls, that infuriating door animation stuff etc) until RE4. Some argue that it's not really a RE game but in the spirit of the previous games but that's a good thing.
Author:  GazChap [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
richardgaywood wrote:
And I agree with Lave -- having to not move whilst aiming is a key part of the feel of the game. It would really detract from the tension if they removed that restriction.

I don't mind not being able to move while aiming, but I would like to be able to strafe around corners because it's so ingrained into my brain that I just can't get the hang of any other control scheme.

It's like if a game doesn't have an "invert Y axis" option. I just can't play it because, from those viewpoints, my mind associates looking up with moving the stick down and vice versa.
Author:  Zardoz [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
One of the main draws for me wanting a 360 was the fact that RE5 is coming out for it.
Author:  Grim... [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Plissken wrote:
The problem with Jet Set Willy is the character could only jump left or right and not up. How stupid is that?

He could, you know.
Author:  Curiosity [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
GazChap wrote:
It's like if a game doesn't have an "invert Y axis" option. I just can't play it because, from those viewpoints, my mind associates looking up with moving the stick down and vice versa.


Anyone who doesn't use the inverted Y axis is officially a Mental.
Author:  Dr Lave [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
GazChap wrote:
richardgaywood wrote:
And I agree with Lave -- having to not move whilst aiming is a key part of the feel of the game. It would really detract from the tension if they removed that restriction.

I don't mind not being able to move while aiming, but I would like to be able to strafe around corners because it's so ingrained into my brain that I just can't get the hang of any other control scheme.

It's like if a game doesn't have an "invert Y axis" option. I just can't play it because, from those viewpoints, my mind associates looking up with moving the stick down and vice versa.


I get you, it just that not inverting the y axis is just lazy programming whereas not strafing is intentional game design. It's valid to criticise both, but they are very different criticisms.

Not being able to strafe means you have to exposure yourself when turning a corner before being able to train your gun on anything that could be coming at you. Which is where a lot of the tension comes from.

markg wrote:
CUS wrote:
I have a strong suspicion that the only reason it gets so much attention is because all the other Resident Evil games are so horrendous and upsettingly successful, but by this one being actually quite good, it's some kind of validation for the series' fans. Then again, I do think the other games are some of the worst 'big' games ever made, so I'll admit to a slight degree of bias.

Same bias I had before I played it then. RE4 is amazing, even if you hate every other Resident Evil game.


I hate the earlier Resident Evils. They are gash.
Author:  Goddess Jasmine [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Curiosity wrote:
GazChap wrote:
It's like if a game doesn't have an "invert Y axis" option. I just can't play it because, from those viewpoints, my mind associates looking up with moving the stick down and vice versa.


Anyone who doesn't use the inverted Y axis is officially a Mental.

That would be me then. I a getting better with it though, practise makes perfect and all that.
Author:  Cras [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Y-axis should only be inverted if you're flying a plane. This is official.
Author:  markg [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
I think of it like this: when you look up you tilt your head back. Inverted y-axis just feels right, though I can get on with either.
Author:  Zardoz [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
You can just move your eyes dude. People are talking.
Author:  markg [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Fuck you man, I can't help being only 5'7"
Author:  Goddess Jasmine [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Craster wrote:
Y-axis should only be inverted if you're flying a plane. This is official.

Not if you've ever seen me play Pilot Wings 64...
Author:  Goddess Jasmine [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Zardoz wrote:
One of the main draws for me wanting a 360 was the fact that RE5 is coming out for it.

I've just seen the trailer, them zombies are getting quicker!
Author:  Zardoz [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Yep!

Also, I've just read this: The producer of the game has stated Resident Evil 5 has been pushed back to some time in 2009.

*Sobs*
Author:  GazChap [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 13:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Resident Evil 4
Lave wrote:
Not being able to strafe means you have to exposure yourself when turning a corner before being able to train your gun on anything that could be coming at you. Which is where a lot of the tension comes from.

From what I've heard, nothing ever comes at you from round a corner while you're turning anyway?

There's also little in the way of logic to support this decision. Leon (is that his name?) is supposed to be some elite battle-hardened zombie-killer. He wouldn't step out and expose himself around a corner. Going so far as to have a cover system in the game would be excessive certainly, but being able to strafe wouldn't hurt the game that much. Perhaps even make it so that when you strafe the camera zooms in to your head a bit to minimise the "peeking around corner" mechanic.

I guess it's more of a fault with my hand-eye coordination than the game (although Sight Training on the DS says my hand-eye coordination is top notch ;) )
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