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Downloading
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10074		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  asfish [ Fri May 09, 2014 8:59 ]
Post subject:  Downloading
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27330150

ISP's will be sending letters out to people they think are downloading TV and Films.

They will send out 4 maximum, each one becoming a stricter telling off, after that they will do nothing but keep the details on file for a year.

The rights holders will not have access to the details of the people receiving the letters, but will have an overview of the numbers.

Not really going to change anything in the short term, but it will give rights holders data to come back in a few years and push for more stricter laws.

I would reckon there will be a lot of letters sent in error so suspect the data will be inaccurate.
Author:  Bamba [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
As the article says, this is almost certainly only the first move by the RIAA et al. They'll wait for this to not work, which is really won't, then push for stronger measures using the very failure of this as proof they're required.
Author:  Grim... [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
DAMNIT
Author:  TheVision [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
This is like that parking ticket I received. I kept getting letters which I ignored and eventually, it went away.
Author:  GazChap [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
TheVision wrote:
This is like that parking ticket I received. I kept getting letters which I ignored and eventually, it went away.

I did that.

It didn't go away.

They took me to court.
Author:  Grim... [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Did you win?
Author:  myp [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Big difference is probably that Gaz's was council and Vision's was some kind of cowboy private firm with no leg to stand on?

I'm just guessing.
Author:  TheVision [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
You're right in my case and I imagine you're correct with Gazchap too.
Author:  DavPaz [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
I have SSL'ed all of my stuff.

Now my ISP sees many mysterious connections to a usenet server but can't tell that it's por... er, Linux distros
Author:  myp [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
I don't download anything illegally but I go through VPNs for all my home browsing now out of principle.
Author:  KovacsC [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
I am tempted to get a nowtv box, so I can watch all the tv programs I missed
Author:  Bobbyaro [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
How can they distinguish between a tv show I can legally d/l and one that I cant?
Author:  KovacsC [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Bobbyaro wrote:
How can they distinguish between a tv show I can legally d/l and one that I cant?


The use of pixies and magic....
Author:  DavPaz [ Fri May 09, 2014 9:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Bobbyaro wrote:
How can they distinguish between a tv show I can legally d/l and one that I cant?

It's where you download it from. ITunes, iPlayer, yes. TvRelease.net, no.
Author:  Trousers [ Fri May 09, 2014 10:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
DavPaz wrote:
I have SSL'ed all of my stuff.

Now my ISP sees many mysterious connections to a usenet server but can't tell that it's por... er, Linux distros


I have used the SSL connections on Easynews for years.

Is that deffo the case then that your ISP has no clue what version of Linux With No Cardigans On you're downloading? I assumed as much but didn't know for sure.
Author:  zaphod79 [ Fri May 09, 2014 10:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Bobbyaro wrote:
How can they distinguish between a tv show I can legally d/l and one that I cant?


If you are using a torrent client that might be a giveaway or if your going to a proxy for The Pirate Bay (or EZTV or KAT) then again thats more suspect than grabbing it via the Iplayer (my torrent stuff is itself encrypted but my connection to wherever to grab the torrent files is not (yet)
Author:  Cras [ Fri May 09, 2014 10:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Trousers wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
I have SSL'ed all of my stuff.

Now my ISP sees many mysterious connections to a usenet server but can't tell that it's por... er, Linux distros


I have used the SSL connections on Easynews for years.

Is that deffo the case then that your ISP has no clue what version of Linux With No Cardigans On you're downloading? I assumed as much but didn't know for sure.


Correct. Unless they ask Easynews and Easynews tell them.
Author:  Mr Dave [ Fri May 09, 2014 10:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Cras wrote:
Trousers wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
I have SSL'ed all of my stuff.

Now my ISP sees many mysterious connections to a usenet server but can't tell that it's por... er, Linux distros


I have used the SSL connections on Easynews for years.

Is that deffo the case then that your ISP has no clue what version of Linux With No Cardigans On you're downloading? I assumed as much but didn't know for sure.


Correct. Unless they ask Easynews and Easynews tell them.

Or they ask you and you tell them.
Author:  GazChap [ Fri May 09, 2014 10:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
British Nervoso wrote:
Big difference is probably that Gaz's was council and Vision's was some kind of cowboy private firm with no leg to stand on?

I'm just guessing.

Nope, it was a private firm - Parking Eye.

They now take everyone to court if they ignore the letters.

In my case, I filed a defence with the court that they raised a rebuttal to, deliberately delayed providing me with supporting documentation that would help my case, and in the end I decided it was simpler, quicker (and cheaper in terms of time spent) to just pay the £50 they wanted to settle the claim than actually take time off etc. to go to the court case.

I was parked at a client site doing some IT support, and wasn't aware they'd installed this Parking Eye system, and because I'm silly and never open my mail, I hadn't noticed the increasingly stern-sounding letters, and then one day a letter turned up from HM Court Service with "DEFENDANT" visible in the envelope window.

The law changed in October 2012 that means that these scumbags now actually have a chance in court - although ironically Parking Eye are abusing this process so much at the moment that it seems most judges are now just automatically throwing out any Parking Eye claim.
Author:  MrChris [ Fri May 09, 2014 10:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
How does one us an SSL or VPN? Or, indeed, a VPL?
Author:  myp [ Fri May 09, 2014 10:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
How does one us an SSL or VPN? Or, indeed, a VPL?

I use HMA to encrypt all my internet traffic at the device level. I can't be bothered flashing my router's firmware.
Author:  Satsuma [ Fri May 09, 2014 10:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
If I'm using Hola to do my naughty stuff will I be "safe az 'ahzees"?
Author:  zaphod79 [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
How does one us an SSL or VPN? Or, indeed, a VPL?


I've read quite a few guides on this in the past and will have a dig around and see what i can find thats 'easy to follow' (probably not today)
Author:  Bamba [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Saturnalian wrote:
If I'm using Hola to do my naughty stuff will I be "safe az 'ahzees"?


Do you use Hola to download anything?
Author:  Cras [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
How does one us an SSL or VPN? Or, indeed, a VPL?


You watch TV streaming services, you don't do 'downloads'. So SSL is no real use to you. A VPN would be, mind.
Author:  MrChris [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
OK, how do I do a VPN then? Is myp's suggestion one?
Author:  Pod [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
British Nervoso wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
How does one us an SSL or VPN? Or, indeed, a VPL?

I use HMA to encrypt all my internet traffic at the device level. I can't be bothered flashing my router's firmware.



Does this impact your connection bandwidth at all?
Author:  myp [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Pod wrote:
British Nervoso wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
How does one us an SSL or VPN? Or, indeed, a VPL?

I use HMA to encrypt all my internet traffic at the device level. I can't be bothered flashing my router's firmware.



Does this impact your connection bandwidth at all?

Well obviously it does to a certain extent. If you connect to the nearest server it's barely perceptible though.

I've tried connecting to Japan before and it basically grinds to a halt. :D

-edit- I connect to the US a lot for Netflix and most of the time it's ok. If it gets all jittery/buffery then I just disconnect and reconnect to another.
Author:  Bamba [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Am I right in assuming that all this really only impacts P2P stuff (e.g. BitTorrent) because the right holders can just join the swarm and start noting down IP addresses? And that anything that's pure client-server (e.g. newsgroups or streaming from dodgy sites) isn't an issue because your IP isn't exposed to anyone except the server side which the rights holders obviously don't have direct access to? Or am I over simplifying here? I mean obviously if the rights holders did something like sue a streaming website for access to their connection logs you're buggered, but that kind of scenario aside presumably they've got no way of knowing who's doing what if there's no P2P involved?
Author:  DavPaz [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
It's because the ISP is involved and they can basically see everything that you're doing. Encrypted traffic from a usenet server is still suss in Cameron's BRAVE NEW WORLD
Author:  Bamba [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
DavPaz wrote:
It's because the ISP is involved and they can basically see everything that you're doing.


Yes, but the ISP isn't giving free access to anyone; they're only responding to requests based on the rights holder witnessing a certain IP address downloading something dodgy. If it's not P2P surely no one can see what you're doing and thus no request to ISP?
Author:  DavPaz [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Not yet.

Citizen
Author:  Satsuma [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Bamba wrote:
Saturnalian wrote:
If I'm using Hola to do my naughty stuff will I be "safe az 'ahzees"?


Do you use Hola to download anything?


It sorta goes some sort of server in Brazil or Belgium or the United Emerates; such is my understanding. :shrug:
Author:  Bamba [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Saturnalian wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Saturnalian wrote:
If I'm using Hola to do my naughty stuff will I be "safe az 'ahzees"?


Do you use Hola to download anything?


It sorta goes some sort of server in Brazil or Belgium or the United Emerates; such is my understanding. :shrug:


That answer I was looking for here is: no. Which is to say that no, your use of Hola doesn't fall into the scope of this because you're not actually downloading anything, and certainly not from a dodgy site; you're just streaming from a completely legit website (Netflix).
Author:  DavPaz [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Although accessing US Netflix from the UK is technically against teh roolz, I don't think Netflix themselves give a rat's ass.
Author:  MaliA [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Isn't streaming it for yourself ok, but uploading it the bad thing?
Author:  DavPaz [ Fri May 09, 2014 11:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
MaliA wrote:
Isn't streaming it for yourself ok, but uploading it the bad thing?

They'll go after the suppliers first, but the 'consumers' will be next on the list
Author:  BikNorton [ Fri May 09, 2014 12:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
SSL man in the middle is trivial now. The people this place pays for IT services got it working after only 3-4 attempts on a near-zero hardware budget, so making microwave porridge has to be more difficult.
Author:  asfish [ Fri May 09, 2014 12:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Quote:
The law changed in October 2012 that means that these scumbags now actually have a chance in court - although ironically Parking Eye are abusing this process so much at the moment that it seems most judges are now just automatically throwing out any Parking Eye claim.


It used to be (or might still be) that these supermarket car park managers had to prove who the driver was. If you get caught on speed camera or council cark park, then you have to state who the driver was (if you want to dispute) and as we have seen lying in this case can get you jail time.

So if you got a ticket in a Tesco car park you could just ignore all the letters about CCJ and court and in then end they would go away, or you could call then and ask them for proof of the driver which they could never give you as in 99.9% of cases they had put the ticket on the car when there was nobody in it.

Has this now changed?
Author:  DavPaz [ Fri May 09, 2014 12:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
BikNorton wrote:
SSL man in the middle is trivial now. The people this place pays for IT services got it working after only 3-4 attempts on a near-zero hardware budget, so making microwave porridge has to be more difficult.

I don't like the implications of an ISP launching a MITM attack against a customer on the say-so of a third party.
Author:  asfish [ Fri May 09, 2014 12:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
I would guess its torrents and P2P they will look at.

Although there have been some attempts to get take downs on the NG, thinks have not changed much there. Also most people use SSL which tells the ISP nothing more that X amount of data was pulled down.
Author:  MrChris [ Fri May 09, 2014 12:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
MaliA wrote:
Isn't streaming it for yourself ok, but uploading it the bad thing?

I've got a vague feeling that some recent court case in the UK decided that the temporary files your computer picks up to stream with don't count as copying. Those with more time and inclination may wish to look into this.
Author:  GazChap [ Fri May 09, 2014 12:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
asfish wrote:
Has this now changed?

Yes. The private parking companies can now legally chase after the registered keeper if they don't provide information about who the driver was.

In practice, it seems most companies are still doing what they did before, but Parking Eye are actually proceeding and taking people to court if it remains unpaid and unchallenged (there's now a new scheme called POPLA or something that allows the driver/registered keeper to file an appeal and this is critical if you want to get out of paying it, apparently - but because I didn't even know I'd got the letters I didn't do anything at all.)

Anyway, this is rather OT ;)
Author:  BikNorton [ Fri May 09, 2014 14:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
DavPaz wrote:
I don't like the implications of an ISP launching a MITM attack against a customer on the say-so of a third party.

no, and it still rankles that my employer has decided to be such an invasive nanny. I'm just reminding that technology has caught up with politicians' dreams and big media's demands, it's not 'technically impossible' like it was 5 years ago.
Author:  zaphod79 [ Fri May 09, 2014 15:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Still relevant now (and worse if your outside of the US as the HBO options are not available)

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones
Author:  Cras [ Fri May 09, 2014 15:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
zaphod79 wrote:
Still relevant now (and worse if your outside of the US as the HBO options are not available)

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones


I want to have a kid so I can call it CuntHammer.
Author:  Grim... [ Fri May 09, 2014 15:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Cras wrote:
zaphod79 wrote:
Still relevant now (and worse if your outside of the US as the HBO options are not available)

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones


I want to have a kid so I can call it CuntHammer.

Everyone will just call it "Junior", though.
Author:  Cras [ Fri May 09, 2014 16:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
POW.
Author:  asfish [ Fri Apr 22, 2016 17:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Bump

On the topic of downloading I have some invites for Iptorrents, if anyone is interested PM me

They have a good mix of everything really and are as current as the NG

Lot of porn as well if that's your thing
Author:  TheVision [ Fri Apr 22, 2016 18:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Downloading
Yes please!
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