Taking the Brexit

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25753

TheVision wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

The Polish centre in Hammersmith -- which was built to commemorate the many Polish soldiers who fought and died in the British army in WW2 -- was defaced with racist graffiti over the weekend. Heartbreaking.

Agreed. Heartbreaking.

I hope we don't see more stuff like this.

Oh, stuff like this is going on all over by many reports. Obviously there are many personal cases being given in social media, but I've seen a few stories about shops, houses, cars and places of worship being targeted with gravity, damage, bonnets and leafers over the werkend.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

I’ve been thinking about this over the weekend and the thing that is really concerning me is the control over the separation from the EU. Whilst there is some logic to the idea that a remain PM shouldn’t be managing an exit, on the other hand, all the people did was vote to leave the EU. No one, not the people campaigning to leave, or the people voting to leave, or the remainers, or anyone at all, had or has any mandate to decide the details of that separation. There are going to be a lot of seriously important decisions made about the laws of this country: for instance, a lot of EU legislation is of direct effect, and it hasn’t been (as it didn’t need to be) transposed into UK law. So if we separate from the EU then a whole load of laws could just disappear overnight without anyone having agreed that that is a good thing, rather than deciding that actually we need to keep similar protections in place and passing equivalent UK laws.

And I don’t think that some opportunistic bellend like Johnson, or indeed the Tories as a whole, should be empowered to decide what bits of our current laws we should keep.

And we also need someone setting the right tone for all this – as someone else pointed out, this shouldn’t be a “hahahah, we’re leaving, feck all you forrins”, it should be a case of “we’re going to try to ensure we have as close to the status quo as possible” (which is absolutely possible) and make sure that both the people in this country, and the EU, continue to see us all as friends and neighbours. And for the leave voters to understand that, actually, this isn’t going to make a big screaming difference to immigration.

So I think we need a general election really, really soon.

On the other hand, ideally, I’d like there to be a credible opposition before that happens. :-/

myp · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:13

TheVision wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

The Polish centre in Hammersmith -- which was built to commemorate the many Polish soldiers who fought and died in the British army in WW2 -- was defaced with racist graffiti over the weekend. Heartbreaking.

Agreed. Heartbreaking.

I hope we don't see more stuff like this.

Attachment:

Cly51EsWAAI3Zv4.jpg large.jpg

Cavey · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:18

MrChris wrote:

I’ve been thinking about this over the weekend and the thing that is really concerning me is the control over the separation from the EU. Whilst there is some logic to the idea that a remain PM shouldn’t be managing an exit, on the other hand, all the people did was vote to leave the EU. No one, not the people campaigning to leave, or the people voting to leave, or the remainers, or anyone at all, had or has any mandate to decide the details of that separation. There are going to be a lot of seriously important decisions made about the laws of this country: for instance, a lot of EU legislation is of direct effect, and it hasn’t been (as it didn’t need to be) transposed into UK law. So if we separate from the EU then a whole load of laws could just disappear overnight without anyone having agreed that that is a good thing, rather than deciding that actually we need to keep similar protections in place and passing equivalent UK laws.

And I don’t think that some opportunistic bellend like Johnson, or indeed the Tories as a whole, should be empowered to decide what bits of our current laws we should keep.

And we also need someone setting the right tone for all this – as someone else pointed out, this shouldn’t be a “hahahah, we’re leaving, feck all you forrins”, it should be a case of “we’re going to try to ensure we have as close to the status quo as possible” (which is absolutely possible) and make sure that both the people in this country, and the EU, continue to see us all as friends and neighbours. And for the leave voters to understand that, actually, this isn’t going to make a big screaming difference to immigration.

So I think we need a general election really, really soon.

On the other hand, ideally, I’d like there to be a credible opposition before that happens. :-/

Your whole argument is predicated on their being a credible, functional Opposition (or indeed *any* Opposition). Chris, there just isn't one. Not even at all.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32621

MrChris wrote:

And I don’t think that some opportunistic bellend like Johnson, or indeed the Tories as a whole, should be empowered to decide what bits of our current laws we should keep.

Don't worry about that! It's worse than that. The volume of legislation and timescales of an Article 50 process mean Parliament cannot hope to have any meaningful insight over the process. It'll be run by unelected civil servants instead.

In other news, Boris repeated this morning that the pound is stable.

@OilSheppard: "Sterling drops to new low of $1.3217. Last time this low Jagger/Bowie 'Dancing in the Street' was No.1"

I don't understand how he gets away with this grotesque mendacity.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

Annuities (aka pensions) are in the toilet.

Former editor of The Sun Kelvin MacKenzie doesn't regret anything about his Hillsborough coverage, but now regrets voting to leave the EU.

Barcley's and RBS shares have been frozen.

At least there is a new John Oliver so we can have a laugh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEALC1z3QG8

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38535

Cavey wrote:

Your whole argument is predicated on their being a credible, functional Opposition (or indeed *any* Opposition). Chris, there just isn't one. Not even at all.

I agree. Total failure.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:22

Cavey wrote:

MrChris wrote:

I’ve been thinking about this over the weekend and the thing that is really concerning me is the control over the separation from the EU. Whilst there is some logic to the idea that a remain PM shouldn’t be managing an exit, on the other hand, all the people did was vote to leave the EU. No one, not the people campaigning to leave, or the people voting to leave, or the remainers, or anyone at all, had or has any mandate to decide the details of that separation. There are going to be a lot of seriously important decisions made about the laws of this country: for instance, a lot of EU legislation is of direct effect, and it hasn’t been (as it didn’t need to be) transposed into UK law. So if we separate from the EU then a whole load of laws could just disappear overnight without anyone having agreed that that is a good thing, rather than deciding that actually we need to keep similar protections in place and passing equivalent UK laws.

And I don’t think that some opportunistic bellend like Johnson, or indeed the Tories as a whole, should be empowered to decide what bits of our current laws we should keep.

And we also need someone setting the right tone for all this – as someone else pointed out, this shouldn’t be a “hahahah, we’re leaving, feck all you forrins”, it should be a case of “we’re going to try to ensure we have as close to the status quo as possible” (which is absolutely possible) and make sure that both the people in this country, and the EU, continue to see us all as friends and neighbours. And for the leave voters to understand that, actually, this isn’t going to make a big screaming difference to immigration.

So I think we need a general election really, really soon.

On the other hand, ideally, I’d like there to be a credible opposition before that happens. :-/

Your whole argument is predicated on their being a credible, functional Opposition (or indeed *any* Opposition). Chris, there just isn't one. Not even at all.

I do remember a time when you were all gleeful about the possibility of corbyn. Can we get those days back.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25753

Corbyn has some GREAT principles... And some not so great ones. He has done wonderful achievements in his past, plus some not so savoury connections from earlier days. Whatever the balance of these, however, he has been an inaffectual leader. Not always, but often enough, and I think too many people believe* his actions during the referendum to have been ineffectual for him to survive this.

I have seen a few places people pointing out that 2/3rds of Laboir supported voted remain as a reason that he will hang tight as leader, but I really don't think many people see the Labour/remain numbers as being down to his actions or leadership during the campaign.

* whether true or not.

myp · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:32

Ok so we oust Corbyn. Who next? I really can't see anyone who would be accepted by both the PLP and Labour members, as they seem to be poles apart these days.

myp · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:34

I keep flip-flopping between thinking he needs to go for his weak Remain campaign, and thinking it's unfair to blame it on him as Labour voters chose 2:1 to remain so surely this is all the Conservatives' fault?

It's probably a mixture of both.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25753

I genuinely don't think Corbyn can be given the credit for the higher support of remain from Labour supporters. He heads the party, but I think he personally did very little to convince people to vote remain.

myp · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:43

Mimi wrote:

I genuinely don't think Corbyn can be given the credit for the higher support of remain from Labour supporters. He heads the party, but I think he personally did very little to convince people to vote remain.

I don't necessarily disagree. It was a weak campaign.

But this coup has been planned for a while and they're just using it as an excuse. And what real, credible alternative do we have?

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16585

Mr Dave wrote:

Cavey wrote:

MrChris wrote:

I’ve been thinking about this over the weekend and the thing that is really concerning me is the control over the separation from the EU. Whilst there is some logic to the idea that a remain PM shouldn’t be managing an exit, on the other hand, all the people did was vote to leave the EU. No one, not the people campaigning to leave, or the people voting to leave, or the remainers, or anyone at all, had or has any mandate to decide the details of that separation. There are going to be a lot of seriously important decisions made about the laws of this country: for instance, a lot of EU legislation is of direct effect, and it hasn’t been (as it didn’t need to be) transposed into UK law. So if we separate from the EU then a whole load of laws could just disappear overnight without anyone having agreed that that is a good thing, rather than deciding that actually we need to keep similar protections in place and passing equivalent UK laws.

And I don’t think that some opportunistic bellend like Johnson, or indeed the Tories as a whole, should be empowered to decide what bits of our current laws we should keep.

And we also need someone setting the right tone for all this – as someone else pointed out, this shouldn’t be a “hahahah, we’re leaving, feck all you forrins”, it should be a case of “we’re going to try to ensure we have as close to the status quo as possible” (which is absolutely possible) and make sure that both the people in this country, and the EU, continue to see us all as friends and neighbours. And for the leave voters to understand that, actually, this isn’t going to make a big screaming difference to immigration.

So I think we need a general election really, really soon.

On the other hand, ideally, I’d like there to be a credible opposition before that happens. :-/

Your whole argument is predicated on their being a credible, functional Opposition (or indeed *any* Opposition). Chris, there just isn't one. Not even at all.

I do remember a time when you were all gleeful about the possibility of corbyn. Can we get those days back.

I never saw Corbyn as a potential PM, but I did feel that the party needed to get back to its roots somewhat, that there was no point just having two Tory parties but he totally failed to engage with anyone. But anyway that was all a long time ago in a totally different country.

devilman · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:46

Mimi wrote:

Oh, stuff like this is going on all over by many reports. Obviously there are many personal cases being given in social media, but I've seen a few stories about shops, houses, cars and places of worship being targeted with gravity, damage, bonnets and leafers over the werkend.

Once the evil EU gravity laws are scrapped, it won't be a problem.

US Friend of my on Facebook wrote yesterday..

Quote:

Brexit set the tone! Time to make America GREAT!!!!!!

Jem · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:53

My cousin shared a tweet on facebook about the polling of Leave voters being mostly older people, and my uncle (her dad) replied:

Quote:

Let's get something straight. We, the older members of society, outnumber the young. That's how democracy works. And a great many older adults resent the young thinking we owe them something. We have paid our dues already. You have not - yet. You are joining our world, respect it and conform, or change it as and when you have earned the right to do so.

Genuinely angered by this comment so much. RESPECT IT AND CONFORM? How about fuck you. ARGHHH.

miki · **Joined:** 30th Apr, 2011 **Posts:** 1458 **Location:** NL

My inlaws splendidly both beat the statistics and voted remain
however yesterdag we heard that steves 80+ yo lovely grandmother voted leave because: "I thought it would shake things up a bit"
well at least she voted for something she's getting...

a dutchie I know who moved to Norwich got asked if she had handed in her resignation yet and when was she leaving...

ugh it's all so depressing and worrying

flis · **Joined:** 26th May, 2008 **Posts:** 3333

The whole thing is farcical. I'm not exactly an avid follower of British politics and the only times I've been aware of this campaign, was when Geldof was swearing at Farage on a boat, and Jo Cox was murdered by an absolute idiot.

People haven't really been interested in what it actually means until after the event. When I looked at the opposing sides before the referendum, I thought the Leave side lacked credibility. Gove, BoJo and Fucking Farage. Farage is a political nobody, even the rest of the Leave campaign tried to distance themselves from him. Both sides did nothing but try to make people too scared to vote the other way and ordinarily, Remain would come out on top because the Great British public hate change! Except this time people are more scared of losing the NHS and having loads of Turkish Forrins flooding in, each one carrying a Syrian refugee on their back.

No claims were refuted until after the vote; it was a contest of one-upmanship with each side rolling out ever more ScaryFacts. The 350m per week was bogus from the start, you don't even give that much to the EU so how the fuck would you ever spend that on the NHS instead!? A quick look at Norway and Switzerland would tell you that you can't decide to stop immigration or point blank refuse the settlement of refugees.

And now your entire Government has unravelled, settling the whole world into a period of uncertainty. Christ, people wanted to hang/shoot/burn all the bankers when they did similar - and they were motivated by cold hard cash, not blatant racism.

You're lucky Bush isn't still President, he looks at countries with unstable Governments with his hand hovering over the "Bomb them into submission" button.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:23

Jem wrote:

We, the older members of society, outnumber the young.

No they don't.

Jem · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:25

Grim... wrote:

Jem wrote:

We, the older members of society, outnumber the young.

No they don't.

I was too enraged by the idea that I should conform to actually fact check him :facepalm:

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32621

Lonewolves wrote:

I keep flip-flopping between thinking he needs to go for his weak Remain campaign, and thinking it's unfair to blame it on him as Labour voters chose 2:1 to remain so surely this is all the Conservatives' fault?

37% of people who voted Labour in 2015 voted to Leave... but that's relative to 2015, the year the Labour vote collapsed and only the most loyal were left. And it was still 37%. Rewind that to consider the Brexit votes of people who voted Labour in, say, 2005 and I think it looks far worse for Corbyn.

This is still, very directly, David Cameron's fault, however. Politics being such a complex business it's quite rare that any one thing is any one person's fault but for once it's quite clear cut.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25753

Grim... wrote:

Jem wrote:

We, the older members of society, outnumber the young.

No they don't.

I guess it depends where you set the divide.

myp · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:43

Mimi wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Jem wrote:

We, the older members of society, outnumber the young.

No they don't.

I guess it depends where you set the divide.

Obviously he means those of voting age. Still a twattish thing to say, mind.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:45

Mimi wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Jem wrote:

We, the older members of society, outnumber the young.

No they don't.

I guess it depends where you set the divide.

Above the mean age of the living population, right? That's 40 years old (40.00, oddly). The 2011 census results show that 50.6% of people are below 40.

There are more older voters, but not more older members of society.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

I did the maths properly and double checked it. The taxpayers's 73% stake in RBS has dropped in value by £1.9 billion since the result.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49236

MrChris wrote:

all the people did was vote to leave the EU. No one, not the people campaigning to leave, or the people voting to leave, or the remainers, or anyone at all, had or has any mandate to decide the details of that separation.

You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, because of campaign promises, a lot of people think they voted for something different. They think they voted for an immediate end to immigration and repatriation of current migrants. Or they think they voted for repeal of business legislation. Or they think they voted for massively increasing funding to the NHS or public services. Or they think they voted for the UK to switch back to a manufacturing based economy. That's now turning into anger as they realise the realities of the situation.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

Update: Now a clean £2b.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32621

Bank bailout talk has started.

@Ian_Fraser: "One analyst claims #RBS needs an immediate £20bn to £25bn bailout, and a total change of strategy, if it's to survive."

(The 2008 bailout was £45bn.)

Cavey · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 13:00

...take a look at this guys; correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it say £350 million on the side of that bus, not £50 million?

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/

/bitter, hollow laugh

myp · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 13:02

Cavey wrote:

...take a look at this guys; correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it say £350 million on the side of that bus, not £50 million?

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/

/bitter, hollow laugh

Yeah, that's been doctored, surely?

Cavey · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 13:03

Perhaps someone in Leave has Microsoft Paint...

devilman · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 13:04

Cavey wrote:

...take a look at this guys; correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it say £350 million on the side of that bus, not £50 million?

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/

/bitter, hollow laugh

If you look at the full image - https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/v ... 1466171921 it's a daily amount.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

The bus has two sides.

Cavey · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 13:06

devilman wrote:

Cavey wrote:

...take a look at this guys; correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it say £350 million on the side of that bus, not £50 million?

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/

/bitter, hollow laugh

If you look at the full image - https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/v ... 1466171921 it's a daily amount.

Ah OK, thanks.
Good to see you back mate.

Malc · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 13:07

Lonewolves wrote:

Cavey wrote:

...take a look at this guys; correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it say £350 million on the side of that bus, not £50 million?

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/

/bitter, hollow laugh

Yeah, that's been doctored, surely?

£50 Million a day = £350 a million a week

myp · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 13:09

Of course.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Cras wrote:

MrChris wrote:

all the people did was vote to leave the EU. No one, not the people campaigning to leave, or the people voting to leave, or the remainers, or anyone at all, had or has any mandate to decide the details of that separation.

You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, because of campaign promises, a lot of people think they voted for something different. They think they voted for an immediate end to immigration and repatriation of current migrants. Or they think they voted for repeal of business legislation. Or they think they voted for massively increasing funding to the NHS or public services. Or they think they voted for the UK to switch back to a manufacturing based economy. That's now turning into anger as they realise the realities of the situation.

Perhaps, but having well informed voters (on either side of a vote) is not a pre-requisite of a valid democracy. Tough fecking shit, basically.

Perhaps we should teach about politics and our democratic system a little more thoroughly at school, because the number of people I've heard talking about how they didn't vote for a Boris as prime minister is enough to make me want to kill someone.

Lonewolves wrote:

Mimi wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Jem wrote:

We, the older members of society, outnumber the young.

No they don't.

I guess it depends where you set the divide.

Obviously he means those of voting age. Still a twattish thing to say, mind.

Perhaps, but it is an accurate description of a system of representative democracy. The majority get to decide - I didn't want a bloody Tory government, but there we are, the people hath spaken.

If I don't like it, I should go to North Korea, etc.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 13:43

Hearthly wrote:

MaliA wrote:

I read just now that maybe DC has done in BoJo,Gove et al by saying Art 50 would fire the day after. He didn't and resigned, leaving that huge responsibility hanging over the next leader. If they do, they are toast, if they don't, they are toast.

From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

This is now quoted in an official Guardian article:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... icle-50-eu

#comment-77205935">http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... t-77205935

So who will dare to actually push the Article 50 button then?

Hopefully the answer is no one.....

It's on here, too: http://qz.com/717182/a-brexit-conspirac ... imself-in/

Are you Teebs, Mali?

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49236

MrChris wrote:

Cras wrote:

MrChris wrote:

all the people did was vote to leave the EU. No one, not the people campaigning to leave, or the people voting to leave, or the remainers, or anyone at all, had or has any mandate to decide the details of that separation.

You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, because of campaign promises, a lot of people think they voted for something different. They think they voted for an immediate end to immigration and repatriation of current migrants. Or they think they voted for repeal of business legislation. Or they think they voted for massively increasing funding to the NHS or public services. Or they think they voted for the UK to switch back to a manufacturing based economy. That's now turning into anger as they realise the realities of the situation.

Perhaps, but having well informed voters (on either side of a vote) is not a pre-requisite of a valid democracy. Tough fecking shit, basically.

Indeed. It's a perfectly valid, legitimate referendum. I'm merely stressing how the expectations of the electorate are now pretty much impossible to meet, because a huge amount thought they were voting for something that cannot happen.

Quote:

Perhaps we should teach about politics and our democratic system a little more thoroughly at school, because the number of people I've heard talking about how they didn't vote for a Boris as prime minister is enough to make me want to kill someone.

Fucking hell, yes.

Quote:

Perhaps, but it is an accurate description of a system of representative democracy. The majority get to decide - I didn't want a bloody Tory government, but there we are, the people hath spaken.

If I don't like it, I should go to North Korea, etc.

[/quote][/quote]

That's not true. In a representative democracy, the people get to choose the people who make the decisions. A referendum (if acted on) is direct democracy. And it's a fucking daft idea

zaphod79 · **Joined:** 16th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14501

I'm about a page back on the thread but i cant see that anyone else posted this yet so :

https://twitter.com/shockproofbeats/sta ... 0576898048

1. My thoughts as a Northern Irish person on how NO LEAVERS REALISED that Brexit will likely precipitate utter carnage in NI and, thusly, UK
— Shocko based on the novel Push by Sapphire (@shockproofbeats) June 27, 2016

Quote:

My thoughts as a Northern Irish person on how NO LEAVERS REALISED that Brexit will likely precipitate utter carnage in NI and, thusly, UK I'm angry that the NI point is never, ever discussed. Despite the fact we are

(a) the only people who have a land border w EU...
(b) simultaneously the only part of UK for which a border would prove uniquely, and dramatically problematic...
(c) since we overwhelmingly voted for Remain because of the previous two reasons.

So there's that. But it gets worse. It gets much worse.

The fact is that either they put a militarised border between North and South or all their talk of Fortress Britain is nonsense.

A fully open border EXISTS between the UK and the EU; one such example is my dad's back fence; a 15 second walk from ROI and thus the EU.
You're French. You travel freely via EU to Dublin. Get bus to Lifford (3 hrs). Walk for 90 seconds to Strabane. Ta-da! You are now in UK No border checks, no machine guns, no "papers please". Just open. This is no longer acceptable to the mandate we have just been handed. A border is bad for practical reasons; people like my sister live in Donegal and work in Derry, and thousands more vice versa... MUCH MORE IMPORTANT are the psychological effects. Lot of Good Friday Agreement predicated on free movement between north and south.

This and cross-border bodies were just enough to comfort nationalists but not close enough to a united Ireland to antagonise unionists.

Actually, an awful lot of the framework of the GFA was underpinned by existing EU laws anyway, so it may now be entirely undone.

But more importantly, making people undergo any form of border checkpoint between the two countries will not just be an arse ache.. but will massively inhibit the sense of security half of NI population takes from it and ROI being part of a wider European state. HUGE.

I want to stress that this not a new concept for us. I'm 30, so I remember checkpoints as a kid. I remember machine guns and dogs. My dad making sure we weren't nervous while he was being asked patronising questions by the armed men inspecting his driving license and checking under our car for explosives. This used to be EVERY FUCKING DAY.

This won't be some new, weird thing - this will be a direct, unbidden return to something we worked very, very hard to get away from. Something that we were promised was over. That we finally thought we HAD gotten away from.

A notion of peace that thousands of very stubborn and dangerous people finally struck a peace for. Put down arms and moved on from. A long process of peace, to which we must presume thousands of people now alive in NI and mainland UK, **literally owe their lives**.

And now we see violence could sleepwalk back in as a SIDE EFFECT of Brexit. One that no one ever mentioned in any debate I watched. The Troubles, back as A SIDE EFFECT of a tussle for the leadership of the Conservatives, a party NI citizens don't even fucking vote for.

REMEMBER: Irish-Identifying NI citizens (I don't like saying 'Catholics') risk now being physically cut off from Eire. That is DRAMATIC.

Vast majority are not hardened, violent. Same was true in 60s-80s. It takes an angry minority, w a "legitimate" grievance to recruit. The recklessness of not appreciating this powder keg AS EVEN A FUCKING TALKING POINT IN THE DEBATES disgusts me.I identify as Irish (and have Irish passport) but am happy for NI to remain part of UK if majority say so; and we have peace, stability.

Same is true of LARGE percentage of Irish-Identifying NI people. But free travel to Eire is part of that peace, part of that stability.As is the HUGE amount of cash the EU gave us in peace dividends. (€3.5bn from EU in last round of budgeting).

But at least English people (and Welsh too - wtf lads???) can strike a blow against bendy bananas. [SLOW HAND CLAP, SOBBING] END.

Oh and a clarification: when I say NI citizens DON'T vote for the Tories - I mean they CAN'T vote for the Tories. They don't run there It is physically impossible for us to exert any influence or protest on the Conservative Party as they do not contest elections in NI

Happy to correct myself that Conservatives DO now run in NI since I left. They are massively unpopular (0.1- 2.1%) but do exist We are, therefore, merely victim to wranglings within a party to whom we gave ~2% of our vote. Some cands didn't even get deposits back.

MaliA · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 13:53

Grim... wrote:

Hearthly wrote:

MaliA wrote:

I read just now that maybe DC has done in BoJo,Gove et al by saying Art 50 would fire the day after. He didn't and resigned, leaving that huge responsibility hanging over the next leader. If they do, they are toast, if they don't, they are toast.

From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

This is now quoted in an official Guardian article:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... icle-50-eu

#comment-77205935">http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... t-77205935

So who will dare to actually push the Article 50 button then?

Hopefully the answer is no one.....

It's on here, too: http://qz.com/717182/a-brexit-conspirac ... imself-in/

Are you Teebs, Mali?

Nah. I'm as dumb as rocks/I can't often be bothered to think that deeply about stuff and write about it/san dimas high school rules

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38535

I need to stop reading about this before I genuinely become so morose that I will cease to function

MaliA · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 14:25

DavPaz wrote:

I need to stop reading about this before I genuinely become so morose that I will cease to function

Eddie Izzard's beret

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38535

MaliA wrote:

DavPaz wrote:

I need to stop reading about this before I genuinely become so morose that I will cease to function

Eddie Izzard's beret

Ha! Remember those carefree days?

Cavey · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 14:30

At £2,100,000,000,000 wiped off world stocks and counting due to Brexit, that pink beret cost humanity dear.

Kind puts Bono's hat into perspective.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

No, even in these turbulent times there are still some constants in the world. Bono is still the world's biggest khunt.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32621

The economics editor of the FT writes:

@ChrisGiles_: "TIN HAT TIME John Llewellyn, former OECD chief economist, and one of the least alarmist people I know"

The statement from Llewellyn is below.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49236

I am absolutely seeing a mood that reflects those sentiments on our trading floors today. Outright panic.

myp · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 14:51

DavPaz wrote:

I need to stop reading about this before I genuinely become so morose that I will cease to function

Self-care dude, practice self-care.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Given that markets react to things like that, was that not a teensy bit silly?

Be Excellent To Each Other

Taking the Brexit

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