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Taking the Brexit
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Author:  MrChris [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I predict that, in the long run (say 5 years), this will end up having made very little difference to anything at all, and everyone who got so ridiculously het up about this (on both sides) will, if they have any humility, feel a little bit silly.

Author:  myp [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

MrChris wrote:
I predict that, in the long run (say 5 years), this will end up having made very little difference to anything at all, and everyone who got so ridiculously het up about this (on both sides) will, if they have any humility, feel a little bit silly.

Quoting this for posterity. :D

#mrchriswrongaboutbrexit2016 (for search purposes)

Author:  Mimi [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Goddess Jasmine wrote:
Mimi wrote:
The Loom I wanted to buy must be sourced at point of purchase as I have been wanting it for ages but yesterday made an 'impressive, brave and wonderful' (my thoughts) step towards something good, and so finally maybe did deserve it, but the price was put up yesterday by nearly a third, so my prize has moved away from me again.

Brexit!!!!


Even if the exchange rate steadies itself, I bet the uk seller doesn't drop that back down. SADFACE.


Did you go to the post box?! :)


Only the LIBRARY baby group. It's actually a massive thing because of how I was treated last time I went there. I swore I'd never, ever return.

Author:  MrChris [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Heh.

Seriously, though - the main bad thing to come out of this for the UK and us lefty liberal types in the South (Scots Indy Ref Mk 2) was going to happen regardless at some point, and we were then going to be consigned to multiple Tory governments anyway. And then even the slightly Tory voters will have had enough of them after a while and we will see a resurgence of the Liberals (sorry, couldn't keep a straight face there).

In terms of economic outlook, trade etc, there will be pain for a few years until the uncertainty has ended, but an equilibrium will be reached. It's, quite literally, not the end of the world, and some of the hysteria in, predictably, the Guardian (you've sold your grandchildren out, they will be fighting stray dogs for food instead of going to university, etc) is just embarrassing, even for someone like me who wanted to stay in the EU.

Author:  markg [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Nope, not buying the storm in a teacup argument really. Yeah I'm sure that a lot of people won't feel a thing from it. Especially those who are well off living in a wealthy area. In the meantime another five years of austerity measures will be used to justify their most mental Tory wet dreams. Services many rely on such as state schools etc. will just keep getting shitter. The NHS will get truly shafted. Nobody knows if it will cause another recession or how bad it will be. All I can see coming from it is regression.

Author:  myp [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I am already looking at houses in the Edinburgh area. :D

Author:  markg [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I don't think things are going to get much better up there either. They've shafted the whole lot.

I have never felt so disenfranchised. Even during successive Tory governments it felt like there was something worth fighting for, but not now, not here.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Chris, you're completely wrong. There's no way this doesn't have permanent effects.

To name just one area close to my heart: it's going to gut the London tech startup scene. Already coming under pressure from a growing tech community in Berlin, few startups will prefer London when there's any hint they may no longer be able to hire from across Europe without any visa paperwork they simply cannot afford. Startups are about managing risk; this is extra risk. Startups are also about moving fast; this will happen well before governments even begin negotiations. You can un-spook these horses.

London's banks are the central hub for EU derivatives trading, to the value of trillions a year. This despite us not being in the Euro, due to some hard-won concessions negotiated with the EU that we will now lose. That's a big slice of London's financial pre-eminence on the block and the UK economy is alarmingly dependent on financial services.

And then there's the dark heart, the further empowerment of a nasty strain of right-wing popularism. Not all Leave voters were racists, but all racists voted Leave. Today, those people feel like they've received support for their world view from the nation. Last night, people of colour were told go home, get out, we don't want you. Yesterday, every single immigrant in this country was made to feel unwelcome. That's a chilling effect that runs through out entire country.

This isn't time for a cup of tea and some jolly Keep Calm And Carry On. This is serious business.

Author:  myp [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

markg wrote:
I don't think things are going to get much better up there either. They've shafted the whole lot.

Obviously I am going to wait to see if a second indyref goes ahead first.

Author:  Cras [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

We've just sent a clear signal to Britain and the rest of the world that ignorance is acceptable. That letting yourself be led around by the nose by hate-filled media and political demagogues is fine. That letting misplaced anger be your politics is okay. It's utterly terrible.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Oh, also, that major political campaigns organised around paper-thin slogans of trivially refuted bullshit are perfectly fine.

Author:  Cras [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 13:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

And we'll get Johnson in charge. And the US will probably get Trump.

Two of the world's most powerful nations are actually going to be run by a Willy and a Fart.

Author:  Cras [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 13:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

There's a ton of interesting polling stuff here:

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/ho ... 4-71635453

Including this astonishing graph:

Author:  Curiosity [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 13:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
And we'll get Johnson in charge. And the US will probably get Trump.

Two of the world's most powerful nations are actually going to be run by a Willy and a Fart.


Trump is losing ground on a daily basis. It appears that the Americans will actually get to mock our politics this time around.

Author:  Cras [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 13:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Indeed. I just wanted to make a willy and fart joke.

Author:  markg [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 13:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
There's a ton of interesting polling stuff here:

Yeah so it is unfair to categorise Leave people as racist. It's only like four out of five of them.

Author:  flis [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 13:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Even if it only takes 5 years for things to return to "normal", that 5 years can be a huge amount of time for people to put their lives on hold or bear the brunt of economic uncertainty.

Author:  myp [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 13:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

flis wrote:
Even if it only takes 5 years for things to return to "normal", that 5 years can be a huge amount of time for people to put their lives on hold or bear the brunt of economic uncertainty.

We've only just barely recovered from last time!

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 14:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/ho ... d-and-why/

"Those who said they paid a great deal of attention to politics were evenly divided between leave and remain. Those who said they paid little or no attention to politics voted to leave the EU by 58% to 42%."

"Seven voters in ten expected a victory for remain, including a majority (54%) of those who voted to leave. Leave voters who voted UKIP at the 2015 election were the only group who (by just 52% to 48%) expected a leave victory."

Referendums suck.

Author:  Hearthly [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 14:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Well we're asking the same group of people to make monumentally historic decisions who we generally don't entrust with much more than who gets kicked out of the Big Fucking Brother house next.

Cameron's folly - this is his legacy now, like Illegal War Blair - it's all they'll ever be remembered for.

One of the many cringeworthy moments on the telly yesterday was a woman in a UK area that does incredibly well out of EU grants and subsidies. She spouted out some half-formed nonsense about immigration and Britain being great again. The interviewer asked her if she'd considered the tens of millions pounds of EU money that had been spent on regenerating the area she lived in, including the very road they were stood in at that moment in time, to which she cheerfully replied she had no idea about things like that, then pulled up her jumper to reveal some cliched nonsense t-shirt with the Union Jack on it, said 'We're English!' and marched off triumphantly down the street.

I mean, if you're asking people like that to make decisions like this, you're really, really, playing with fire.

Author:  Cras [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 14:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

*sigh*

Sarah Palin sends her congratulations.

Quote:
When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another...

The UK knew - it was that time. And now is that time in the USA.

The Brexit referendum is akin to our own Declaration of Independence. May that refreshed spirit of sovereignty spread over the pond to America’s shores!

Congratulations, smart Brits. Good on you for ignoring all the fear mongering from special interest globalists who tend to aim for that apocalyptic One World Government that dissolves a nation’s self-determination and sovereignty... the EU being a One World Government mini-me.

America can learn an encouraging lesson from this.

It is time to dissolve political bands that connect us to agendas not in our best interest. May UN shackles be next on the chopping block.

Author:  Hearthly [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 14:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

When Trump and Palin are congratulating us on the result, you know the whole thing has gone spectacularly wrong.

Author:  miki [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 14:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

you have probably seen this, but in case you haven't: petition

Author:  MaliA [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 14:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Love me some Palin

Author:  asfish [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 15:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Quote:
One of the many cringeworthy moments on the telly yesterday was a woman in a UK area that does incredibly well out of EU grants and subsidies. She spouted out some half-formed nonsense about immigration and Britain being great again. The interviewer asked her if she'd considered the tens of millions pounds of EU money that had been spent on regenerating the area she lived in, including the very road they were stood in at that moment in time, to which she cheerfully replied she had no idea about things like that, then pulled up her jumper to reveal some cliched nonsense t-shirt with the Union Jack on it, said 'We're English!' and marched off triumphantly down the street.


Was in a pub in Cornwall last night having some food with the family. All the locals where at the bar, saying stuff "like no more fat cats", "no more immigrants", "they won't be getting anymore money from us."

Its like they think they will be getting some sort of pay out when we exit the EU

Chances are there area got plenty of benefit from the EU

Author:  MaliA [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 15:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

asfish wrote:
Quote:
One of the many cringeworthy moments on the telly yesterday was a woman in a UK area that does incredibly well out of EU grants and subsidies. She spouted out some half-formed nonsense about immigration and Britain being great again. The interviewer asked her if she'd considered the tens of millions pounds of EU money that had been spent on regenerating the area she lived in, including the very road they were stood in at that moment in time, to which she cheerfully replied she had no idea about things like that, then pulled up her jumper to reveal some cliched nonsense t-shirt with the Union Jack on it, said 'We're English!' and marched off triumphantly down the street.


Was in a pub in Cornwall last night having some food with the family. All the locals where at the bar, saying stuff "like no more fat cats", "no more immigrants", "they won't be getting anymore money from us."

Its like they think they will be getting some sort of pay out when we exit the EU

Chances are there area got plenty of benefit from the EU


Tintagel is North Cornwall and they are weirdos

Author:  asfish [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 15:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
asfish wrote:
Quote:
£120 billion wiped off the FTSE in one day



Markets don't like uncertainty by all accounts, does make you think who is running all of this and how clever they are.

The outcome of this referendum has been 52\48 for most of the time, so not like the "market" couldn't have predicted this.

All that 120 Billion will be back on the FTSE is a few months


It's been 52/48 the other way. Why do you think the pound surged before results started coming in? Banks had exit polls that were suggesting remain right up until the last minute. This is the largest one day fall in sterling in recorded history, and a larger FTSE collapse than the banking crisis. But okay - it'll be back in a few months. Right.


The FTSE-100 opened on Monday June 20 at 6,021.09 - and closed on Friday at a better level of 6,162.97. So better already!

Author:  lasermink [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 16:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

The pound to euro exchange rate seems to have hardly moved, so either the euro has dropped as well, or something is rotten (edit: possibly my understanding of these things).

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 17:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
And then there's the dark heart, the further empowerment of a nasty strain of right-wing popularism. Not all Leave voters were racists, but all racists voted Leave. Today, those people feel like they've received support for their world view from the nation. Last night, people of colour were told go home, get out, we don't want you. Yesterday, every single immigrant in this country was made to feel unwelcome. That's a chilling effect that runs through out entire country.


Lots of this being reported on Twitter today.

http://thedinosaurprince.tumblr.com/pos ... l-debrides

Author:  Cras [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 17:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Saw a great comment on this

Quote:
I don't think half our country are racists. I am, however, really scared that racists now think half our country agrees with them

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 17:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

The Daily Mail ran a piece explaining what Brexit means financially. The comments have some gems:

Image

Author:  Anonymous X [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 17:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Fuck off Corbyn!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nge-brexit

Author:  Zardoz [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 17:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Jesus.

Author:  Agent Starling [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 18:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

From that link above, the comment of "legitimised racism" - I think that's exactly what it feels like now. I was doing the weekly shopping in Tesco yesterday and down the next aisle to me, I heard some random bloke say, "We can now get rid of all them Romanians".

Now perhaps I've just led a sheltered life or something, but honestly I've never heard a comment like that before in public as it were. It felt unpleasant.

Author:  flis [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 18:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I'd be worried about it all kicking off. The Remain voters seem fully fed up with the absolutely ridiculous and stupid reasons some people based their Leave vote on. Obviously, there will be people who feel that leaving the EU is the best decision and realise there will be a period of adjustment but some of them, especially the racists, have made their decision based on absolute nonsense.

Those particular Leave voters are more likely to want to take matters into the their own hands when they wake up to the reality that, actually, none of the EU migrants who are resident here are going anywhere. And no-one can stop more migrants coming in; not only that but it's absolutely necessary for immigration to continue happening or you'll end up with a mediocre country full of mediocre intellects. Part of being able to/needing to continue trading with the EU will be on the condition that the UK continues to take people in. Even Switzerland can't avoid that and they've never been in the EU or in a position where anyone wants to make an example of them to prevent a sudden surge of countries wanting to go. Look at Greece... All they wanted was money and they've had all kinds of austerity measures imposed on them - rightly so.

So soon enough, everyone will be fully disillusioned and ready to riot.

Author:  asfish [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 18:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

By all accounts the Foreign Office has 12-20 people with experience in negotiating Trade Deals. We will need 100's to get out of the EU. We have so few as it was all done in the EU.

Then you have Jean-Claude Juncker who will know this, yet still wants the UK out ASAP and "punished" this is for his own agenda to stop other EU nations leaving by calling referendums.

Leave was not what I voted for, but things need to change.

Author:  asfish [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 18:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Quote:
I'd be worried about it all kicking off. The Remain voters seem fully fed up with the absolutely ridiculous and stupid reasons some people based their Leave vote on. Obviously, there will be people who feel that leaving the EU is the best decision and realise there will be a period of adjustment but some of them, especially the racists, have made their decision based on absolute nonsense.



Remain are rather fond of saying every leave voter is a racist or hates young people on social media. They are also coming up with their fair share of crap about what will happen next.

I voted remain, as did my wife who is from Ireland, nobody else in my family did. My brothers wife is Asian so can't see him as a racist really. To be honest I'm surprised at them, not had time to ask them why yet.

Author:  Cras [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 18:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I've never seen a remain voter say all leave voters are racists. To quote Billy Bragg though, all racists are leave voters.

Author:  Zardoz [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 18:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

There's going to be some serious unsavoury shit going down from both sides I imagine. Tip of the iceberg this.

I keep cooling down about unbelievable leave result... then it just keeps hitting me again like a slap in the face.

Author:  asfish [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 18:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Zardoz wrote:
There's going to be some serious unsavoury shit going down from both sides I imagine. Tip of the iceberg this.

I keep cooling down about unbelievable leave result... then it just keeps hitting me again like a slap in the face.


I think from the less intelligent\ racist leave voters yes

Some of this group are almost excepting deportations or more money spent on them before the end of the week!

I guess when fuck all happens for the next few years and the penny drops then things might get nasty.

Author:  Mimi [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 19:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

asfish wrote:
My brothers wife is Asian so can't see him as a racist really.


I'm sure your brother is not a racist, but that aside, applying that idea to anyone is ridiculous. Nigel Farage's wife is German, doesn't stop him being a xenophobic nightmare trying to cleave us away from our European neighbours.

That's not a commentary on your brother at all, but really having friends or lovers of another race doesn't automatically mean a person harbours prefjuduce against nobody of any other race based on their ethnicity or colour.

Author:  asfish [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 19:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Mimi wrote:
asfish wrote:
My brothers wife is Asian so can't see him as a racist really.


I'm sure your brother is not a racist, but that aside, applying that idea to anyone is ridiculous. Nigel Farage's wife is German, doesn't stop him being a xenophobic nightmare trying to cleave us away from our European neighbours.

That's not a commentary on your brother at all, but really having friends or lovers of another race doesn't automatically mean a person harbours prefjuduce against nobody of any other race based on their ethnicity or colour.


Very true :)

Author:  LewieP [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 19:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I've met a great deal of racist white guys with Asian wives/girlfriends. Not just a little bit racist, but "Kill all blacks and Nuke Africa" extremely racist.

Again, obv not commenting on your brother, but yeah it's not a meaningful metric.

Author:  Grim... [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 19:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I work with a girl who constantly "casually" racist, and is married to a Jamaican chap.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 19:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... f68cucjtt9

Brutal.

Author:  Jem [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 19:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

My mother regularly moans about immigrants and her wife is from Belgium, so...

Author:  DavPaz [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 20:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Jem wrote:
My mother regularly moans about immigrants and her wife is from Belgium, so...

Bloody forrins, coming here, taking our milfs...

Author:  Cras [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 20:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-allies-sabotaged-labour-in-campaign-and-fuelled-brexit_uk_576eb1b5e4b0d2571149bb1f?f0kkhs8f68cucjtt9

Brutal.


Fuck's sake. So the nation got fucked because of two parties infighting, not just one. Yay.

Author:  MaliA [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 20:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-allies-sabotaged-labour-in-campaign-and-fuelled-brexit_uk_576eb1b5e4b0d2571149bb1f?f0kkhs8f68cucjtt9

Brutal.


So. The left fucked it, then.

Author:  Zardoz [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 20:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Jesus fucking Christ.

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