Students protesting outside Con HQ

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49237

That is pretty horrible. Having said that of course, if you had a look round some student/protest blogs/forums, I bet you'd see a lot of the same comments.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:18

GoodKingWrongceslas wrote:

Delightful.

I can see why they talk like that.
Crowd control in violent situations must be fucking terrifying for the police. They're outnumbered 100-1, they're scared shitless of actually touching anyone and they know that if the protest suddenly gets more out of hand, they could be killed.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6584

Quote:

Racist, abusive or excessively liberal comments will not be tolerated.

Ha!

Malc · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:20

My Dad did riot control for the Wapping riots and I think maybe the Brixton riots too.

He bloody hated it, and that was back when it was more acceptable to be a bit more physical with the rioters!

Malc

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25864

Crasmas Pudding wrote:

if you had a look round some student/protest blogs/forums, I bet you'd see a lot of the same comments.

Actually, no, that is far more shocking coming from an institution that is formed and paid by taxpayers to protect and serve people regardless of their views/background, (etc). I have been helped by a few wonderful policemen in the past, but there are some in their number that are nothing more than uniformed thugs.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25864

Grim... wrote:

they're scared shitless of actually touching anyone

I don't know - they didn't seem too scared about giving folks a good beating with their police sticks the other day. Every single clip I saw was of police officers giving the protesters a good hiding either by hitting or stamping at them.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:27

Mimsicle wrote:

Crasmas Pudding wrote:

if you had a look round some student/protest blogs/forums, I bet you'd see a lot of the same comments.

Actually, no, that is far more shocking coming from an institution that is formed and paid by taxpayers to protect and serve people regardless of their views/background, (etc).

The Police are actually people, you know.
Take a look at the thread and take off the "safe and warm in my office" filter and you'll see most of them wishing each other luck.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:27

Mimsicle wrote:

Grim... wrote:

they're scared shitless of actually touching anyone

I don't know - they didn't seem too scared about giving folks a good beating with their police sticks the other day. Every single clip I saw was of police officers giving the protesters a good hiding either by hitting or stamping at them.

Really? Really? No.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49237

Mimsicle wrote:

Crasmas Pudding wrote:

if you had a look round some student/protest blogs/forums, I bet you'd see a lot of the same comments.

Actually, no, that is far more shocking coming from an institution that is formed and paid by taxpayers to protect and serve people regardless of their views/background, (etc).

Agreed, but they're still people. Having angry opinions given the fact that you know you're going to be put face to face with thousands of furious students is pretty understandable, I'd say. The question is whether the officers are still capable of acting in a professional, sensible manner despite whatever personal opinions they hold.

Warhead · Noob as of 6/8/10

Mimsicle wrote:

I have been helped by a few wonderful policemen in the past, ....

These weren't at your birthday parties in pubs, by any chance?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Mimsicle wrote:

Grim... wrote:

they're scared shitless of actually touching anyone

I don't know - they didn't seem too scared about giving folks a good beating with their police sticks the other day. Every single clip I saw was of police officers giving the protesters a good hiding either by hitting or stamping at them.

Yeah, quite. The Guardian reports from every protest have mentioned a fair number of incidents of completely innocent people being twatted.

I don't doubt that the police are scared, and they are of course outnumbered, but there's still quite a lot of them, they're tooled up, have horses, and they can stave heads in with impunity. And then joke about how the one chap who's probably ended up brain damaged has "learnt his lesson".

Grim... wrote:

The Police are actually people, you know.

No one is saying they aren't. That's rather the point though, isn't it? People are fallible, and have a tendency, when in mobs, to act like mobs. And the police, particularly in this country, should be better than that. Sadly when you have people like Blair and Stephenson in charge of the force that's not going to happen through good leadership.

Quote:

Take a look at the thread and take off the "safe and warm in my office" filter and you'll see most of them wishing each other luck.

And then quite a lot of "well done for giving them a good kicking".

Wullie · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 6183

Mimsicle wrote:

... there are some in their number that are nothing more than uniformed thugs.

I'd say that lot are just as dangerous if not more so than the nutters among the protesters. They stand there like a wall so if one po-po lunges forward off the line he leaves himself & those around him open to attack, he also provokes/concentrates the violence.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:37

How come we don't use water cannons any more? They're quite handy for this sort of thing.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6584

Whilst you can understand Plod down in the lines lashing out and clouting someone, when he's having to react in an instant to a crowd surge, the higher-ups who ordered the horses in, and the 7 hour containment are presumably acting with full info from helicopters and cctv, and aren't in physical danger themselves.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25864

Grim... wrote:

Mimsicle wrote:

Crasmas Pudding wrote:

if you had a look round some student/protest blogs/forums, I bet you'd see a lot of the same comments.

Actually, no, that is far more shocking coming from an institution that is formed and paid by taxpayers to protect and serve people regardless of their views/background, (etc).

The Police are actually people, you know.
Take a look at the thread and take off the "safe and warm in my office" filter and you'll see most of them wishing each other luck.

Sorry, grim... I actually don't know what you are talking about, now. What I mean is, it is more shocking to see Police say that they are up for a fight, a bit of a ruckus, a tustle, than the protesters for the fact that the police are supposed to be the ones preventing that kind of situation. If a thug posts on a protest blog that he wants to go armed to cause someone injury it is terrible in every way, but not a surprise as he is a thug, but to see police say that they'd love to bring in their mates and a load of bayonets, and that they hope that people die... I don't know, I think that is shocking. You expect it from a thug, I guess you are less inclined to expect it from the police. It sounds like the kind of language used by troublemakers that like to start up football violence 'just give me and my mates five minutes in a quiet alleyway with a couple of them'. The police are there as much to protect genuine protesters from the violence caused by trouble makers as anything else. They should be looking to protect themselves, public property and innocent people, not teaching 'scumbags' (students/protestors) a lesson.

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6584

Grim... wrote:

How come we don't use water cannons any more? They're quite handy for this sort of thing.

Ta da!

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Grim... wrote:

How come we don't use water cannons any more?

Any more? They've never been approved for use in Britain. Until now, maybe.

Grim... wrote:

They're quite handy for this sort of thing.

"previous Scotland Yard investigations which found they were too cumbersome to use during such chaotic events."

Wullie · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 6183

Grim... wrote:

How come we don't use water cannons any more? They're quite handy for this sort of thing.

Would you want to explain to the man who drives the gritter what the hell you were playing at?

Theresa May has authorised them.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:41

Grim... wrote:

How come we don't use water cannons any more? They're quite handy for this sort of thing.

*awaits someone posting the picture of the guy who had his eyes smashed in by a water cannon in Germany*

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:41

Oh, there we are. They're non-lethal (pretty-much non-injuring, to be honest), they're cheap, and they make people go home.
Is it just the 'indiscrimination' of the people they get wet that people don't like?

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:42

Grim... wrote:

(pretty-much non-injuring, to be honest)

Curiositree wrote:

*awaits someone posting the picture of the guy who had his eyes smashed in by a water cannon in Germany*

Typical

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Wikipedia says they run as high as 30bar, enough to break bones, rupture internal organs (spleens and kidneys, depending on where they hit you), and blind, as has already been said. Also, from the Independent again:

Quote:

Brian Paddick, the former deputy assistant commissioner at the Metropolitan Police, said the force had previously looked at the use of water cannons, which they'd found unworkable.

"We evaluated water cannons years ago and found they took too long to fill up. In a situation such as the attack on Charles and Camilla, when protesters were mixing with Christmas shoppers, it would be difficult to use."

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16610

Water can be dangerous if it's going quick enough. Hands up if you've ever put your hand in front of a pressure washer just to see if it hurts. :DD

Wullie · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 6183

Curiositree wrote:

Grim... wrote:

How come we don't use water cannons any more? They're quite handy for this sort of thing.

*awaits someone posting the picture of the guy who had his eyes smashed in by a water cannon in Germany*

I've not seen JC for a while

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49237

So why don't we have mid-pressure cannons. More than a hose, less than a water cannon. Job done?

MaliA · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:45

Curiositree wrote:

Grim... wrote:

How come we don't use water cannons any more? They're quite handy for this sort of thing.

*awaits someone posting the picture of the guy who had his eyes smashed in by a water cannon in Germany*

Would that be the natural extension of standing on a hosepipe until the person looks down the end of it jape?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Quote:

Horses are for charging people in situations like this and they should be used more often. If people get hurt then that is there fault for not moving when told too. We have now trained using dogs in public order situations so I take it they will be in the line the next time….this will be fun.

Another gem. And we should be giving these people water cannon to use indiscriminately on crowds made up largely of innocent people?

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25864

Grim... wrote:

Mimsicle wrote:

Grim... wrote:

they're scared shitless of actually touching anyone

I don't know - they didn't seem too scared about giving folks a good beating with their police sticks the other day. Every single clip I saw was of police officers giving the protesters a good hiding either by hitting or stamping at them.

Really? Really? No.

Yes. There have been quite a large number of reports of completely innocent folks being quite nastily beaten. Did you not see the news clips of the police beating back the crowds? There were quite a few shown on the BBC news last week, it was quite shocking.

Anyway, jeez, you're in a bit of a snarky mood today which I'm not really in the spirits for, so I'm leaving it there.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

Quote:

"We evaluated water cannons years ago and found they took too long to fill up. In a situation such as the attack on Charles and Camilla, when protesters were mixing with Christmas shoppers, it would be difficult - but hilarious - to use."

Fixed.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:48

Doctor Nadolig wrote:

Wikipedia says they run as high as 30bar

I'd suggest turning them down

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 15:49

Mimsicle wrote:

Yes. There have been quite a large number of reports of completely innocent folks* being quite nastily beaten. Did you not see the news clips of the police beating back the crowds? There were quite a few shown on the BBC news last week, it was quite shocking.

Mimsicle wrote:

Every single clip I saw

*And you know this how?

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6584

They should fill them up with something really slippery, and then hose everyone down. It would be like that oil slick machine in Dad's Army.

It looks like those water cannon trucks are pretty hefty - I'm sure they'd be fine down Whitehall, but they'd hit problems in bits of the West End.

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

The coppers need a good beating every so often, keeps them humble.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Grim... wrote:

Mimsicle wrote:

Yes. There have been quite a large number of reports of completely innocent folks* being quite nastily beaten. Did you not see the news clips of the police beating back the crowds? There were quite a few shown on the BBC news last week, it was quite shocking.

Mimsicle wrote:

Every single clip I saw

*And you know this how?

Because they're getting twatted and are not attacking the plod?

There's also been a fair bit of reporting on it.

Just one, from here:

Quote:

Malik has suffered for his beliefs. A slight and bespectacled journalist, who wouldn't hurt a fly, he went to Parliament Square to have a look at the protest, and the Met beat him up for no reason at all – proof, if you needed it, that some of the yobs out on Thursday were wearing uniforms

Or are you suggesting, in contradiction to the reporting, that every single person who got hit with a truncheon (and there were a lot just from the clips) was breaking the law?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Oh, lovely.

Quote:

The mother of 20-year-old Alfie Meadows, who required brain surgery after allegedly being hit by a police truncheon, claimed that when her son was taken to Chelsea and Westminster hospital officers objected to him being treated there.

Susan Matthews, 55, said that only the intervention of an ambulance worker allowed her son to receive urgent medical treatment for the stroke he suffered after receiving his injury. "If he hadn't, Alfie would have been transferred and he could have died," she said.

After allegedly being hit by police, the philosophy student fell unconscious and later sustained bleeding on the brain.

His mother added: "The ambulance man took us to Chelsea and Westminster hospital. That [hospital] had been given over to police injuries and there was a standoff in the corridor. Alfie was obviously a protester and the police didn't want him there, but the ambulance man insisted that he stayed."

She said that he was then asked to take Alfie to another hospital. "The ambulance man was appalled and he said: 'I'm getting angry now, and I'm not going to do this.'

"The senior nurse in charge took us into a resuscitation room to keep us away from the police because, she said, they were finding it upsetting to see protesters in the hospital."

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 16:01

Quote:

He's amazingly jolly now. I don't know it that is from a sense of having survived or the morphine.

It's the morphine

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Grim... wrote:

Quote:

He's amazingly jolly now. I don't know it that is from a sense of having survived or the morphine.

It's the morphine

Yeah, I thought that too!

MaliA · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 16:03

Oxford Street is 14 inches of steel reinforced concrete, so Old Man Afterthout had to tunnel under it, rather than dig it up, between 23 and 29 years ago. Cost £330,000, that did. As a result, his knowledge of the pubs in that area is nigh on encyclopaedic.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Oh ffs - from the most recent page on that rozzer's blog:

Quote:

You can read his blog and find out
http://jodymcintyre.wordpress.com/ .

Such brave policemen we have. It only take 3 of them to beat up a guy in a wheelchair.

Quote:

don’t know about you, but that chappie’s blog reads like it was written by a self-important twunt who takes his writing lessons from the sort of breathless prose Dame Barbara Cartland pumped out.

I’m sure it comes out as awfully heroic (blah, blah the body may be failing, but they can NEVER beat my spirit blah, blah) – but only to his fellow Dave and Davina Sparts. And chumps like nemesis.

Get over yourselves and get paying our wages.

Quote:

You are a tool of the highest order.
Any one going to that got their just dessert’s.
Not enough of the wasters got hammered.

I need to stop reading this.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

I really do feel sorry for the non-cunty police, though. They should form a splinter group. 'The Metropolitan Non-Cunty Police' would be a great thing to put on a CV.

Decca · **Joined:** 23rd Jun, 2010 **Posts:** 2282

Just because you are in a wheelchair it does not automatically make you not a dick.

He said himself the march had no police permission and follows it with

Quote:

Somehow, me and Finlay managed to weave our way through the police line. We found ourselves in a large no-mans-land, in between the riot police trying to stop the crowd, and the police horses getting ready to charge. I turned in my wheelchair to face the police. “Move out of the way!” one of the mounted police shouted at me. I shook my head.

and

Quote:

I got back up and stood in front of the horses.

bait wheelchair is bait and also insulting.

actually hang on it gets worse

http://jodymcintyre.wordpress.com/2010/ ... -party-hq/

Quote:

We continued down the sixty stone steps at the other end of the Treasury road without so much as a pause for breath. We were on the rampage.

it ends with

Quote:

But then, the chants changed… “To the stairs! To the stairs!” Two policemen blocking a tiny door were soon brushed aside, and around fifty of us forced our way through before they had a chance to re-seal the entrance.

It was an epic mission to the top. Nine floors; eighteen flights of stairs. Two friends carried my wheelchair, and I walked. We couldn’t give up now.

When we finally made it to the roof, a feeling of calm descended. I looked over the edge; thousands of students, three massive bonfires and masses of passion still occupied the courtyard. The Tory’s HQ was on it’s last legs. And we were on the roof.

This is only the start.

Scummy litte scrote.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

HA!

Fair enough then on that one. What a twat.

Wullie · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 6183

ZOMG a guy in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy can actually use his legs!!!!!!

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

He seems to be a bit of a warmongering heidcase & likes to play the martyr, but I don't think that someone needing a wheelchair but still having some use of their legs is all that unusual.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 18:51

Wullie wrote:

ZOMG a guy in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy can actually use his legs!!!!!!

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

He seems to be a bit of a warmongering heidcase & likes to play the martyr, but I don't think that someone needing a wheelchair but still having some use of their legs is all that unusual.

Aye, but he's still a cunt, it seems.

Wullie · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 6183

Grim... wrote:

Wullie wrote:

ZOMG a guy in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy can actually use his legs!!!!!!

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

He seems to be a bit of a warmongering heidcase & likes to play the martyr, but I don't think that someone needing a wheelchair but still having some use of their legs is all that unusual.

Aye, but he's still a cunt, it seems.

That was never in any doubt

...but Decca's argument went off on a tangent about his legs working.

Anonymous X · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2046

Mimsicle wrote:

Anyway, jeez, you're in a bit of a snarky mood today which I'm not really in the spirits for, so I'm leaving it there.

I'm not too keen on Grim's love for police violence either.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

Anonymous X wrote:

Mimsicle wrote:

Anyway, jeez, you're in a bit of a snarky mood today which I'm not really in the spirits for, so I'm leaving it there.

I'm not too keen on Grim's love for police violence either.

I suspect our Grim...othy is playing devil's advocate to some extent, in order to make the valid points that (a) not all the police were being dicks, and (b) not all of the protestors were confronting the police in order to give them a basket of kittens.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 19:42

Anonymous X wrote:

Mimsicle wrote:

Anyway, jeez, you're in a bit of a snarky mood today which I'm not really in the spirits for, so I'm leaving it there.

I'm not too keen on Grim's love for police violence either.

I'd be interested to know how you came to that conclusion.

Anonymous X · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2046

Sorry, I'm just a bit... Sensitive about this kind of thing. one of my firm beliefs is that citizens need protection from the police at least as much as they need protection by the police.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Dec 13, 2010 20:09

What should the police do when someone, say, tries to knock them in the face with a scaffold pole? Fend them off? Step back a bit? Not be there in the first place?

Be Excellent To Each Other

Students protesting outside Con HQ
Say no to higher fees actually

Who is online

Be Excellent To Each Other

Students protesting outside Con HQ Say no to higher fees actually

Who is online

Students protesting outside Con HQ
Say no to higher fees actually