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Did you take your car back to the garage, Myp?

Yeah, so the Subaru is dead, was going to cost way too much to fix!

The hunt is on for something else...

Trooper wrote:

Yeah, so the Subaru is dead, was going to cost way too much to fix!

The hunt is on for something else...

Oh god

I'm pretty sure the relevant government agency would take a dim view of them selling and insisting on not fixing a safety feature/mot failure.

The radio lcd was smashed, so i've replaced it and I still have a few missing pixels. Things are 90% legible so it is good enough, but I think that whatever smashed the screen did a bit more damage than just cracking the LCD.

If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy.

BikNorton wrote:

If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy.

That would suggest you're not allowed to sell a car without an MOT.

Subject to the provisions of this section no person shall supply a motor vehicle or trailer in an unroadworthy condition.

For the purposes of subsection (1) above a motor vehicle or trailer is in an unroadworthy condition if—
(a)it is in such a condition that the use of it on a road in that condition would be unlawful by virtue of any provision made by regulations under section 41 of this Act as respects—
(i)brakes, steering gear or tyres, or
(ii)the construction, weight or equipment of vehicles,. . .

BikNorton wrote:

If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy.

That would suggest you're not allowed to sell a car without an MOT.

A person shall not be convicted of an offence under this section in respect of the supply or alteration of a motor vehicle or trailer if he proves—
(a) that it was supplied or altered, as the case may be, for export from Great Britain, or
(b) that he had reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle or trailer would not be used on a road in Great Britain, or would not be so used until it had been put into a condition in which it might lawfully be so used,

BikNorton wrote:

If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy.

That would suggest you're not allowed to sell a car without an MOT.

Gaz not reading one statute

If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy.

I'm not sure "I told the guy it was like that" is acceptable defence.

But if you're fine with it maybe failing at some point fair enough.

I assume you can get around this by selling a car as "spares and repairs" or whatever, though.

(b) that he had reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle or trailer would not be used on a road in Great Britain, or would not be so used until it had been put into a condition in which it might lawfully be so used,

At this end of the market, telling the customer about the faults and them agreeing they are ok with it is a completely acceptable defense.

Grim... wrote:

BikNorton wrote:

If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy.

That would suggest you're not allowed to sell a car without an MOT.

If you sell a car without an MOT and the person drives it away, are you an accomplice to the crime?

Trooper wrote:

At this end of the market, telling the customer about the faults and them agreeing they are ok with it is a completely acceptable defense.

That's literally the opposite of what the law says, but OK.

GazChap wrote:

I assume you can get around this by selling a car as "spares and repairs" or whatever, though.

The wording

Quote:

suggests to me you'd need to go quite a bit further than just saying "spares or repairs" eg. refuse to hand the car over if the buyer doesn't show up with a flatbed.

Trooper wrote:

It's not an E39/38 BMW unless it's got dodgy pixels

I remember that 730 you sold me had a couple!

The brakes on the car work fine, the car efficiently stops. When the light comes on the ABS stops working, the car still efficiently stops, just without the ABS kicking in. The brakes are in proper working order, the ABS system isn't.

But that isn't how the world works, whether it is down to the absolute letter of the law or not.
I have bought and sold a LOT of cars over the past 20 years or so. There is absolutely zero chance of anything happening to a seller who sells a car without an MOT and the buyer drives it off, all onus is on the buyer in that case.

Trooper wrote:

So you're saying it would pass an MOT with faulty ABS, then? As the brakes are working.

Trooper wrote:

Are you saying no-one has ever been convicted for this? Ever? Because I haven't Googled that yet but I suspect you're incorrect.

Rarely prosecuted? Sure. A law that's often flouted and difficult to detect and often left unenforced? I can believe all of that. But "absolutely zero chance" is a high bar.

So you're saying it would pass an MOT with faulty ABS, then? As the brakes are working.

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

So you're saying it would pass an MOT with faulty ABS, then? As the brakes are working.

I was trying to make head or tail out of this when I got bored but I *think* that if the bulb wasn't lit then it could well pass an MOT:

http://www.ukmot.com/manual/3.7/Roller-Brake-Test#MOT

markg wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

So you're saying it would pass an MOT with faulty ABS, then? As the brakes are working.

I was trying to make head or tail out of this when I got bored but I *think* that if the bulb wasn't lit then it could well pass an MOT:

http://www.ukmot.com/manual/3.7/Roller-Brake-Test#MOT

Nah, if a car has an ABS system, then the ABS light comes on when the key is turned, and goes off after a few seconds. The tester should look for that and will fail it if it doesn't happen.

In my case though, when the car went for it's MOT, the ABS system was working as designed.
When I bought the car, the ABS system was working as designed. Dude said the light came on intermittently, I said no problem, I can live with that issue.
Currently, the ABS system is working as designed.

But, you know, the car is unroadworthy, it was illegal for him to sell it to me, and I should return it.

Trooper wrote:

markg wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

So you're saying it would pass an MOT with faulty ABS, then? As the brakes are working.

I was trying to make head or tail out of this when I got bored but I *think* that if the bulb wasn't lit then it could well pass an MOT:

http://www.ukmot.com/manual/3.7/Roller-Brake-Test#MOT

What I mean is that they don't actually seem to test the functioning of the ABS system beyond checking if the car's own diagnostics are flagging a problem and lighting the bulb. Which is something I find a bit surprising unless those systems are actually so robust that the warning light will near enough always come on if there's any kind of a problem.

markg wrote:

Trooper wrote:

markg wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

So you're saying it would pass an MOT with faulty ABS, then? As the brakes are working.

I was trying to make head or tail out of this when I got bored but I *think* that if the bulb wasn't lit then it could well pass an MOT:

http://www.ukmot.com/manual/3.7/Roller-Brake-Test#MOT

The MOT doesn’t include a road test. I don’t think there’s any realistic way that’s they can do more than check the light, which is a pretty reliable indicator of a fault.

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

So you're saying it would pass an MOT with faulty ABS, then? As the brakes are working.

I was trying to make head or tail out of this when I got bored but I *think* that if the bulb wasn't lit then it could well pass an MOT:

http://www.ukmot.com/manual/3.7/Roller-Brake-Test#MOT

The Tomcat is road tested specifically to check the brakes

Grim... wrote:

The Tomcat is road tested specifically to check the brakes

The rules were probably different back then

Author:	Trooper [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:26 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
The Outback failed quite significantly when I took it in for an MOT yesterday, waiting on a quote to get it fixed. (New exhaust, cv joint, anti-roll bar bushing, braking uneven) It's one of those questions of do I pay to get it fixed, or buy something else, i'm leaning towards paying as long as it isn't stupid expensive (i'm hoping for under £700), as better the devil you know! Myp's recent run of bad luck is testament to that. I was very surprised it passed last year, as I knew it was a bit fucked back then. Can't really afford to get a new car right this second, so fingers crossed it won't be too expensive.

Author:	Zardoz [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Did you take your car back to the garage, Myp?

Author:	myp [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:57 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Zardoz wrote: Did you take your car back to the garage, Myp? Not yet. I need to ring him today as he's waiting for some parts to fix the door and locking etc. No point taking it in twice.

Author:	Trooper [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 17:25 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Yeah, so the Subaru is dead, was going to cost way too much to fix! The hunt is on for something else...

Author:	myp [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 17:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Trooper wrote: Yeah, so the Subaru is dead, was going to cost way too much to fix! The hunt is on for something else... Oh god

Be Excellent To Each Other https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/

Gas Guzzling Money Pits https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1635	Page 522 of 614

Author:	Trooper [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 18:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Lonewolves wrote: Trooper wrote: Yeah, so the Subaru is dead, was going to cost way too much to fix! The hunt is on for something else... Oh god Yeah, not brilliant timing, that's for sure!

Author:	BikNorton [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 20:16 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Paraphrasing! "here's your Disco Sport isn't it pretty?!" "Why is the bonnet covered in scratches? ... Why is everything above the waist covered in scratches, now I look at it? Did someone not use a clean microfibre cloth for the final dust down?" "Shit, sorry. We'll get that sorted on Monday. Meanwhile, here's how you lift the third row seats in the boot..." "We ordered a 5 seat, not a 7 seat" "Fuck"

Author:	BikNorton [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 20:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
We weren't bigger dicks about it than they were to us - at no point did they apologise, or accept that their line that a 5 seat auto petrol can't be ordered without the 1800 quid heavy-tow pack is garbage, despite that the salesperson configured it up like that right there on their internal system in front of us in march - eventually reluctantly settling for a rubber boot liner being chucked in. And actually now I write it down, this goes some way to explaining why the dealer contribution had mysteriously gone up a grand since we last spoke and how it was so easy to get the part ex upped by 15%. Which is all very lovely, obviously, because this car needs to last a loooong time.

Author:	Trooper [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 23:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Well, this is exciting, I've put the Outback up on ebay for £1 with no reserve, for spares or repair with a pic of the MOT failure sheet. Currently it is £156, with 93 views and 19 watchers. Any guesses on where it will end up? One in good condition is worth around £1500ish, mine is very much not in good condition, even without the MOT failure. Fully working I think I could get £1k for it. I'm going to say it will end at £428.94. The auction has 7 days left to run.

Author:	Mimi [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 23:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
320.21

Author:	krazywookie [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 23:31 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
605.40

Author:	Zardoz [ Fri Jun 01, 2018 23:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
£666

Author:	Cras [ Sat Jun 02, 2018 0:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
£675

Author:	Grim... [ Sat Jun 02, 2018 0:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
£324

Author:	GazChap [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:13 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Nice. I'm considering getting rid of the 5GT and replacing it with an old E39 estate or something like that, just to avoid having a monthly car payment.

Author:	Mr Dave [ Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
£800,but the buyer never pays.

Author:	Trooper [ Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Now at £301.00, 170 views, 27 watchers... In other news, here is the new Trooperide Attachment: media (1).jpg Attachment: media (5).jpg 2001 E39 BMW 520i, 1 owner from new (well, 2 but the first was the finance company), 148,000 miles, 12 months MOT, which was done a couple of days ago with no advisories. Drives really nice! Needs a new display on radio as that is broken, and the ABS light comes on intermittently. Neither of which should be too costly to sort out, when I get round to it... £875 from a dealer, so if it turns out to be totally fucked tomorrow, then i'm not completely on my arse. Also, his website isn't working, so I quoted him for me to make a new one and run it for him, so that'll be nice if he comes through!

Author:	Trooper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:44 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
It's a lovely old beast. I've got a kit to fix the radio coming which cost £40, and should take me about and hour to do. The ABS issue looks to be the ABS ECU freaking out, which "They all do that, sir", it's around £150 to get it rebuilt, which isn't awful. I might just leave it, as all that happens is the dash light comes on every so often and the ABS doesn't work, the car is still completely usable. It looks like it has been looked after at least, it came with 4 nearly new Continental tyres fitted, which is a good sign! I would have preferred an estate, but it was a matter of what was the best car in the best condition in walking distance! It was either this or a £500 Vectra... Outback status : £331.00, 559 views, 54 watchers, 3d 6h left to go.

Author:	BikNorton [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
I'm pretty sure the relevant government agency would take a dim view of them selling and insisting on not fixing a safety feature/mot failure.

Author:	Trooper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 13:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
BikNorton wrote: I'm pretty sure the relevant government agency would take a dim view of them selling and insisting on not fixing a safety feature/mot failure. About the abs? He told me about it before I bought it, which I was fine with.

Author:	Trooper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Radio is fixed...ish The radio lcd was smashed, so i've replaced it and I still have a few missing pixels. Things are 90% legible so it is good enough, but I think that whatever smashed the screen did a bit more damage than just cracking the LCD.

Author:	BikNorton [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:11 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy. I'm not sure "I told the guy it was like that" is acceptable defence. But if you're fine with it maybe failing at some point fair enough.

Author:	GazChap [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Trooper wrote: The radio lcd was smashed, so i've replaced it and I still have a few missing pixels. Things are 90% legible so it is good enough, but I think that whatever smashed the screen did a bit more damage than just cracking the LCD. It's not an E39/38 BMW unless it's got dodgy pixels I remember that 730 you sold me had a couple!

Author:	Grim... [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
BikNorton wrote: If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy. That would suggest you're not allowed to sell a car without an MOT.

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Grim... wrote: BikNorton wrote: If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy. That would suggest you're not allowed to sell a car without an MOT. If you sell a car without an MOT and the person drives it away, are you an accomplice to the crime?

Author:	GazChap [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Grim... wrote: BikNorton wrote: If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy. That would suggest you're not allowed to sell a car without an MOT. Well, interestingly, it is a criminal offence to knowingly sell an unroadworthy car. I suppose the distinction is that just because it has an MOT that doesn't mean it's roadworthy. Although selling a car with a fault that would not pass an MOT surely means you're knowingly selling it as unroadworthy. I assume you can get around this by selling a car as "spares and repairs" or whatever, though.

Author:	GazChap [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Gaz not reading one statute Your post wasn't there when I started writing mine (and weirdly, it didn't do the "there's been another post since" screen)

Author:	Trooper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
BikNorton wrote: If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy. I'm not sure "I told the guy it was like that" is acceptable defence. But if you're fine with it maybe failing at some point fair enough. Have you bought many cheap cars in the past? The car has an MOT, which is a point in time, it doesn't need another one for another 12 months. The light being on doesn't make the car unroadworthy in the slightest, as all it does is change the car from being a car with ABS into a car without ABS, of which I've driven a fair few of them in my time. It doesn't invalidate the MOT either. At this end of the market, telling the customer about the faults and them agreeing they are ok with it is a completely acceptable defense.

Author:	Trooper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:36 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Grim... wrote: BikNorton wrote: If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy. That would suggest you're not allowed to sell a car without an MOT. If you sell a car without an MOT and the person drives it away, are you an accomplice to the crime? No. It is entirely the responsibility of the driver as to whether they drive a car with or without an MOT.

Author:	Trooper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Trooper wrote: At this end of the market, telling the customer about the faults and them agreeing they are ok with it is a completely acceptable defense. That's literally the opposite of what the law says, but OK. The law states "the number and nature of brakes, and for securing that brakes, silencers and steering gear are efficient and kept in proper working order," The brakes on the car work fine, the car efficiently stops. When the light comes on the ABS stops working, the car still efficiently stops, just without the ABS kicking in. The brakes are in proper working order, the ABS system isn't. However, today, the light isn't on and everything is working perfectly.

Author:	Trooper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 16:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: GazChap wrote: I assume you can get around this by selling a car as "spares and repairs" or whatever, though. The wording Quote: (b) that he had reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle or trailer would not be used on a road in Great Britain, or would not be so used until it had been put into a condition in which it might lawfully be so used, suggests to me you'd need to go quite a bit further than just saying "spares or repairs" eg. refuse to hand the car over if the buyer doesn't show up with a flatbed. But that isn't how the world works, whether it is down to the absolute letter of the law or not. I have bought and sold a LOT of cars over the past 20 years or so. There is absolutely zero chance of anything happening to a seller who sells a car without an MOT and the buyer drives it off, all onus is on the buyer in that case.

Author:	Trooper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 17:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
GazChap wrote: Trooper wrote: The radio lcd was smashed, so i've replaced it and I still have a few missing pixels. Things are 90% legible so it is good enough, but I think that whatever smashed the screen did a bit more damage than just cracking the LCD. It's not an E39/38 BMW unless it's got dodgy pixels I remember that 730 you sold me had a couple! The pixels on the speedo are still going strong on this one, which is more of a ballache to swap out. I can't see the time on this MID unit, as the pixels have gone there, but i've got a watch instead I might just call up the dealer and give the car back though, as it's patently unroadworthy with a non visible clock, making me look at my watch while driving is dangerous...

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 18:13 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Trooper wrote: The brakes on the car work fine, the car efficiently stops. When the light comes on the ABS stops working, the car still efficiently stops, just without the ABS kicking in. The brakes are in proper working order, the ABS system isn't. So you're saying it would pass an MOT with faulty ABS, then? As the brakes are working.

Author:	Trooper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 18:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Trooper wrote: The brakes on the car work fine, the car efficiently stops. When the light comes on the ABS stops working, the car still efficiently stops, just without the ABS kicking in. The brakes are in proper working order, the ABS system isn't. So you're saying it would pass an MOT with faulty ABS, then? As the brakes are working. No, it will fail the MOT if the ABS light is on. The car will pass the MOT as it currently stands.

Author:	Trooper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 18:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Trooper wrote: But that isn't how the world works, whether it is down to the absolute letter of the law or not. I have bought and sold a LOT of cars over the past 20 years or so. There is absolutely zero chance of anything happening to a seller who sells a car without an MOT and the buyer drives it off, all onus is on the buyer in that case. Are you saying no-one has ever been convicted for this? Ever? Because I haven't Googled that yet but I suspect you're incorrect. Rarely prosecuted? Sure. A law that's often flouted and difficult to detect and often left unenforced? I can believe all of that. But "absolutely zero chance" is a high bar. Google away google boy And feel free to take hyperbole literally as is the want on here, technically correct being the best kind of correct of course.