Be Excellent To Each Other

I think the argument goes along the lines of "Seriously, there's no way she could have planned to hire a couple off hitmen to off her husband and stepson, she's been manipulated by her accomplices wanting a share of the insurance money".

I think 70 is legally a retarded person.

All brilliant, but why? What's different between "normal" women and, say, Margaret Beckett, or Jaqui Smith or Sarah Palin or Reagan [EDIT - Reagan? WTF is my brain doing? I meant Thatcher] or Condoleeeeeeza Rice or Yulia Tymoshenko or Angela Merkel? Other than their job?

Your grandparents must love you.

Wow. Having those twisted morals of who's okay to kill must be tough.

They are all dead, you insensitive cunt.

Well, they've built a whole legal system around it.

Then again - unless you are a 100% pacifist*, that line will alway have to be drawn somewhere south of "no-one ever".

*the stereotypical "wouldn't kill someone even to prevent the Germans invading and raping all our babies"

It's purely about being legally responsible for your actions, surely - so no different to not being able to charge a four-year old with murder.

Or the concept of criminal insanity, for that matter.

Yup, exactly it. But I think Dimrill's point is that noone should be executed at all, so therefore the division is pointless.



No such thing. There's insanity preventing you from being capable of forming the necessary "guilty mind" component of the crime, but that's not "criminal insanity", its just "insanity". Same insanity as they had before they killed anyone.

Or, everyone should be executed. NO EXCEPTIOPNS!!!

It's not as if Jacqui Smith decided not to spend all that cash on Id cards when she was in office.

We did discuss back at university whether making the penalty for absolutely everything "death" would drop crime rates and make parking easier.

It's all down to fear of getting caught, not fear of punishment, though, so the death penalty is pointless.

I disagree -- the issue of whether people can be legally culpable applies in all sorts of situations where the death penalty doesn't, so even if you're against the death penalty across the board the division still matters.

Which is what I meant. The law treats those people differently (secure institutions rather than prison or death row).

Which is a perfectly sensible attitude. But execution or not, the division is still there. Regardless of the punishment, you are a responsible adult or you aren't.

First and best.

It happens everyday, bum de dum, no matter what you say.

I absolutely agree with you, chap. It's what our criminal justice system is based on - you have to have both carried out the act and been able to form the necessary intent to do so.



Ah, good-oh. As you were. Pedant-stick back in its case

Oh yes that division matters, but it'd hardly be a massive issue if "woman, bad at tests, given 25 years for murder".

Jam Rutecki, who prosecutors say us one of the most dangerous gangsters in Poland promptly dozed off in court yesterday as he exercised his right to have every word of the indictment read out in open court. All 50,000 pages. Should be done by 2012, says the judge.

25 years in prison for something you weren't mentally capable of understanding is a pretty fucking big issue.

And this "bad at tests" thing isn't particularly helpful. It's like saying "man bad at having his cells divide properly on a petri dish".

Oh but it is. IQ testing has been quite under scrutiny as a test to divine intelligence.



They aren't scientific fact, like your petri dish analogy.

I'm aware that IQ tests are subject to a certain amount of dispute, but they're one of the better tools we have at present to determine these things. I'd rather have that than nothing, and have people who are, medically speaking, retarded, and hence incapable of understanding the ramifications of what they're doing, sent to prison.

So let's kill her!

You do it. I'm too busy fending off wolf-hunting female lawyers.

I'm licking my pinky.

Apparently it is/was theoretically possible to part the "Red Sea"!
http://www.scotsman.com/odd/Red-Sea-sto ... 6543945.jp

Bonnie Langford's quim?

*shudders*

I take it you don't dispute there are very fundamental differences in both the typical temperament and abilities/strengths between men and women, in very broad terms? In which case, there's your answer.



Well, once again, these women have generally succeeded within a hostile, male dominated environment by pretty much emulating male characteristics (or at least, indulging in the gender equivalent of 'Uncle Tomming' if you like), more or less. These are not, therefore, particularly good examples as I repeat once again and certainly not the women that I am thinking of here.

I think Kissyfur's point is that every single example you see of a 'strong inspiring woman' in politics or business is pretty much indistinguishable in attitude from the men in those positions.

So, either the women you are thinking of mutate when exposed to power and influence, or only those already that way inclined have the desire to take up those positions.

Mo Mowlam. She was awesome and not "man"ish at all.

Gill, too. Supah boffo whisky engineer that she is.

In politics? Yes.
Business? No.

Anyone who knows anything about business is aware that some ball-breaking, stereotypical 'strong' guy persona won't get you very far at all, in terms of getting the most out of people which is ultimately surely what business is all about. That went out in the '70s; the business world is vastly more diverse and as a result, more grown up, than the largely crass, schoolboy world of UK politics. Just listen to PMQs for fucks sake - can you imagine a business meeting being run along such lines? It's truly pathetic.

Anyway, I think you'll find it was I who was saying that thus far, most if not all women politicians of any import in the UK, as elsewhere, got where they wanted to be by using essentially male characteristics, whether these were learned, emulated or inherent, and are therefore useless as so-called 'examples', for the purposes of this argument. As I've said, I'm interested in the performance of typical, intelligent, well balanced women in terms of running the country, unsullied by the crass political induction process and beyond - namely those countless thousands of such women who prove themselves daily in the real world often largely because of their distinctive, differing skill sets and temperaments as compared to male colleagues.



The former is no doubt true in many cases (if by 'mutate' you mean adapt the best strategy to gain power for its own sake, through ambition, and regardless of the cost to one's own integrity). The latter is probably true in almost all cases.

Ironically, the politicians we actually require, of either sex, are those who actually desire being a politician the least. We should be rightly suspicious and skeptical of anyone desiring power.

Yes, very good example - she was true to being a woman and all the better for it, even though I didn't personally subscribe to her politics. Look what happened to her though, despite her amazing achievements. Bliar and the rest felt threatened by her popularity, effectiveness, intelligence and above all, candor and integrity - they pretty much destroyed her and tried their utmost to destroy her legacy too through 'briefings' and all the rest, the contemptible bastards.

RIP Mo.

/adds 'Several thousand pounds' to Kissyfur's bill

I think I'd like a go at being PM. I'd change this country around a little bit

2012 Olympics is opened by Prime Minister Mimi:

I think I should like to be called Prime Mimister.

There you go Meems, I rest my case.

2012 Olympics by Supreme Leader Grim...:

Tomorrow is a public holiday!

Woooo!

Because of Mrs Grim...'s Birthday?

Yup agreed, 10 billion quid to watch a bunch of rather ugly people throw stuff around for a while.
(c) Sinister Agent 2006, All Rights Reserved

If we'd spunked that money on meringues for everyone, it would have been better spent. Nice one Bliar, good use of taxpayers' money that we haven't got, on entirely useless things, there. (Pretty much all that Labour did do in 13 years besides rogering the economy for at least a generation if not permanently, killing many hundreds of thousands of innocent people and taking away many personal freedoms back home, of course. Northern Ireland excepted).

Mostly because it is Thursday.

Ooh, it is a public holiday for ADULTS that are not teachers. teachers have just had weeks and weeks off That means if you have school age children you can take them to school and then have a day to yourself or with your partner. If you go out for the day it shall be quiet and un-crowded with children.

Children get milkshakes with school dinners tomorrow, though, as a special treat. Also, papier mache sculpting shall be part of the curriculum on Adult Public holidays.

Win-win.

Mimi, how do you pronounce your username? Is it Me-Me, or more like Mimmi. (I'm going to rule out MyMy)

Not if you're from Birmingham.

The future is bright and fluffy under the benevolent care of our dear Prime Moimoiminiminister. And she's earned that first class rail travel so stop grumbling!

Yulia certainly did nothing of the sort, man. She was the Princess Leia of politics.

Can you give examples of any of those women emulating male characteristics? Particularly in their behind the scenes dealings, and cabinet meetings and so on? I really don't believe that they have, and it seems to me somewhat unfair to suggest so. If you've ever seen a mother dealing with unruly children, it strikes me as being a similar skillset to being in politics.

That was written by the Sun, man.

Episode 1 of Series 2 of Glee is on Cast.com.

Apparently, not that I'm about to watch it, or anything.

FUCK YES!

Me-Me, though my Nan says 'Mimmy'. However, she also pronounces my surname 'Hull' (it's Hill). I think she's trying to sound posh.

I'm going to start appointing ministers. I quite fancy Zardoz as minister of Gifs, Malabar as the sexual equalities minister and Gazchap (unless he's gorn orf again) as minister for Dwarves.