Be Excellent To Each Other

Genuine question - can people still answer this:



Or should I start a new thread?

It's the definition of "succeed" that needs to be debated, WTB (although whether it's worth the hand-wringing meta posts a thread would encourage is questionable).

I really like Beex's small community, and if I wanted a larger and more active forum I'd be using my rllmuk account.

Isn't the fact we have x number of posts per day succeeding? There's pretty much always something to read if you come here. I'd call that a success?

I am also of the "nothing is especially wrong" opinion.

Well to define "succeed" I'd say "not doomed to whither and die", along with "getting a few new users every week or so". Growing steadily rather than dwindling, but certainly not to the extent of an RLLMUK or NeoGAF or whatever. I like our small community, too, and that's why I don't bother with those larger forums - the threads move too quickly and they lack the personal "everyone knows everyone" style that makes this place good.

However, we're undeniably a smaller, less active community than we were when we started out, and whilst some seem to think that's fine, I personally like to see some regular new blood adding their opinions. Rather than inbreeding and isolation.

edit: I agree with you guys as well that other than this calamity of a thread, it has been getting much better with new threads and stuff - we're even getting new faces. I've only brought the issue back up because certain members seem to have already decided that the ultimate fate of this forum is certain death, and to actually contribute to that supposed inevitability rather than help to prevent it.

So to rephrase my question: Does everyone else want to continue on with what we've been doing, improving this place, or has everyone else written this place off like Chinny seems to have?

I think the fact it's not a graveyard for all those 0s and 1s of times past shows it's been a success (and still is). Not many outsiders gave this place much chance of success three years ago. Our membership is no bigger now, but by the same token it's no smaller either. It's still the first place I visit when I want some advice or stimulating debate.

Humans in 'don't always get along' shocker, in a nutshell. It's been happening in all forms of life since we crawled out of the ocean.

Also, if Chinny is the forum cancer, then that makes you the debilitating asthma.

Personally, I disagree. I like reading posts by certain members. You seem to be actively discouraging them, and often start this sort of debate instead, which is more the sort of thing that I would term "leading to the decline of the forum".

Forum is fine. If you want to make it even better, do go ahead. By adding, not detracting.

Mod voice: Anyway, this is all off-topic. I think we've finished discussing it so won't bother thread splitting unless someone requests it.

Another thread if you want to discuss 'the forum', please. People still do want to talk about Amy Winehouse in here.

Although WTB - you're not saying anything that you haven't said before several times, that some have agreed with and others haven't, so I'm not convinced you'll get anything out of another thread.

Fuck it, then. To anyone reading who might actually agree with me - please say something publicly - because even I'm sick of being the one bringing this shit up on my own. If not, then yeah, fuck it.

You're trying to make me go and rethink? Well I say, no, no, no.

I'll just respond to this last bit:

I genuinely don't think I'm detracting. Don't any of you lot who always seem to club together honestly think that blatant trolling is accepted and sometimes encouraged on this forum? What exactly is this place? Is it a forum for the benefit and entertainment of the top 10 most frequent posters alone or a fully fledged community where everybody matters? How do you lot honestly see it? Because sometimes - and it might be difficult for the people in that group to look at it objectively - it really does seem like the former. The stuff you allow each other to get away with, not taking complaints about it seriously - adding stupid jokes instead - and inadvertently ganging up on people.

edit: But yeah, unless I have to respond directly, I'm done on the subject and I invite anyone else who feels the same to start a thread and put their point across, otherwise I'm just going to assume that I'm the minority here and maybe I'm looking at this completely wrong. In which case, forget about it and carry on.

At the end of the day, the only reason I continually bring this up is for the benefit of members who see themselves as "outsiders" and prospective new members. I, personally, don't feel particularly "outside", but I do feel as though many do, and I'd like those people to get involved more for the benefit of the community. That's my motive for all of this - nothing else.

There has been trolling on both sides in this thread - no one is blameless here.

No one here gets out alive.

Now... Saint Amy.

Christ, well we were overdue a big "Ooh, this place is shit" spasm of meta bollocks again, weren't we.

Fuxache.

Irellevant lurker opinion:

Pretty bizarre to attack Chinny, tbh. I don't see any of the evils mentioned and to keep on topic, given the massive assholery that gone on in this thread from others, it's more than a bit odd.

The forum is just fine and there's nothing wrong. It's perfectly normal for A forum to go completely mental like this. I've visited more in the last couple of days because it's fascinating, to be honest. All the meta stuff is just par for the course.

Split?

I think this forum is fine too. At the moment there’s about 30 people online.

I can’t think of a situation in real life where I’d have access to 30 people to talk and discuss things. There’s bound to be fallings out when there’s that many people but it happens rarely and doesn’t last.

We’re alright people, let’s keep it that way.

Yeah we're alright then. No need for this thread, really. Unless the people who've spoken to me in the past come forward publicly and back up what I've been saying, this is where it's going to end. As far as I'm concerned, I'm absolutely and utterly done being the arsehole who brings this up time and time again for the benefit of other people.

I'm Spartacus.

I dunno - I mean last time you raised the issue about B&B, there was a lot of handwringing and arguing, but I think it had a positive result in improving the accessibility of discussions.

At the end of the rage-filled Amy Winehouse thread probably wasn't the best place for a discussion of it this time, but I wouldn't want you to think that you're coming across as someone to be ignored.

Thing is, although I do genuinely think what I'm saying and arguing for is a better forum, it seems I'm trying to make it a better forum for people who don't actually post here, whilst the people who actually do don't give a shit. So unless these people start posting and making themselves heard, my suggestions are utterly worthless. Therefore, fuck it. This is a community and the entire user base should steer the ship. Not one person based on the complaints of people who don't even post here.

If you don't post here any more because you don't like the way things are run, nothing is stopping you from changing that. Nobody has the final say here. There are tight knit groups, but if that bothers you, ignore them, create your own rival group or just don't bother posting here.

I'm genuinely done. My only personal concern is Chinny's opinion that this place is inevitably heading for the dogs. I'd like to see him change that attitude for the benefit of the future of the community and our children and stuff.

I love you WTB, just remember that.

I think this place has done really well considering we're all from different backgrounds with pretty diverse interests (gaming aside). There's plenty of other forums out there yet I still consider this one home as I'm sure many do. I'm not interested in BETEO developing or expanding as such, I just like knowing it's where I'll find the regulars. New members are always a welcome bonus, and I always make sure I say hello when they do show up.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but: Zardoz is the voice of reason.

I feel dirty.

You do realise this statement can be boiled down to "I'm right, and I have the support of many, many invisible people"?

Non mod comment:

WTB, I love the fact that you've tried and to some extent succeeded in making this place more accessible to newbs, but the fact that the lurkers still lurk and don't contribute, says to me that they don't really have a right to complain or insist on changes.

It's like someone asking the doorman on a club to go in and change the music before they'll step through the door. If you don't like what playing, why do you want to go in?

I'm coming round to feeling exactly the same way, hence why I'm done!

Hooray!

edit: Fuck you, new page!

I don't think I'm necessarily "right". The overwhelming response from people who actually post here is to the contrary, and unless people say otherwise, I'm happy to concede defeat at this point. I'm not making it up, though, in case anyone is suspicious. But you'll just have to take my word for it.

How about a passerby who tells the doorman, "I remember when I used to go in there three times a week"?

I've spent many years getting sick to the back teeth of forum/pub analogies. You're not getting away with a club one.

Sensibly, I don't think that the comments re chinny fit in with what will inevitably get boiled down to a discussion of cliques and in crowds,as chinny is demonstrably not part or any such group and actively chooses that route.

This thread will do the same as always happens when it gets started, people accounting for 80% of day to day
Postings will say leave it unchanged while patting wtb on the back for caring and then this evening someone from the background lurkers will post something exaggerated and bile filled from a perceived slight 3 years ago, and then we will have a week of navel gazing.

Addition: Just as long as we haven't given up on being welcoming to new people and having the community grow a little, or at the very least preventing it from shrinking and maintaining activity.

I think occasional intense debate and strong divided opinion on important and difficult matters is what makes this forum kind of ace.

The fact that it is also full of nonsense gives a strange but wonderful balance.

However, strong opinion and valid reasoning is very different from obvious trolling, and the whole name-calling thing was as embarrassing as it was stupid.

You know? I have no idea what's actually being asked in this thread. Do you want this forum to succeed? Yes. Yes, I like the people here. Apart from Grim... And Goddess Jasmine, damn her. And her bloke, whatever he's called. Craster: git. Gaywood, Flis, Malia, Russ, Wullie, Gill, Myoptika, all idiots, and Kalmar is the most hateful human being I've ever encountered. Oh, apart from Malabar. Oh, and evil Throughsilver.

Come on guys. Growth is good, and we will occasionally lose people. Yes, sometimes through spats. I've had to have a break from here when folks have got a bit hurtful before, but I think sometimes you have to be careful to recognise obvious trolling and vendettas and let it wash over you.

Is it too heavy handed for mods to start a report in the mod forum to help spot and vote to warn trolling behaviour, pending a 2hr time out if trolling is repeated, or is that too heavy handed?

I don't mean trolling by way of posting throwaway comments designed to irk, but when it turns to mud-slinging and calling each other really harsh names, it's kind of depressing. The troll gets the reaction of hurt and anger that they crave and they are the only person to leave the situation feeling satisfied.

*pats WTB on back for caring*

I'm new enough not to have been involved in any of the battles of the past, tbh when people go off on one like this you just make yourselves look stupid. Try putting your replies from that thread into google translate and have it read them back to you. Don't worry about what other people type, look after your own back yard.

The forum is fine, some people need to chill the fuck out, I like the photography threads. That is all.

Yay! Mimi likes me!

Heh.

It would suit me if everyone here decamped to YakYak, as both sites have about half as many active users as I'd find ideal, and it'd save me browsing two forums. I'm not half as arsed about the unique identity of the place as I am about the unique identities of about ten people on it I'd rather miss talking to if they weren't around, but then I speak to most people on here I give a shit about on twitter, XBLA, G+ all the time anyway.

Probably the better everyone on here knows each other, the less important the forum itself will become and the usage curve will degrade exponetially over time.

Mental note, must try harder.

Nah, get those guys to come here!

Good idea. We've already started bleeding UGVM dry

No, your name just autocorrects to da soaz on this phone and I couldn't be bothered to teach it otherwise.

It's worth noting that people do get warned for trolling, but it's done privately rather than publically in the thread concerned. Getting into a public discussion over someone's behaviour is counterproductive.

Also, to echo a point AE made last week, the forum isn't a children's playgroup. People need to have the common sense to not deliberately bait others, and they need to have the common sense to not escalate baiting to outright abuse. There's no real value in mods placing themselves in the middle of that.

The problem is with most big overblown arguments is that by the time you've sanctioned one person, there's often so much mudslinging on both sides that it's ridiculous to think that you can point to a single person and say "this was your fault".

I genuinely like you. It's the hat. I lime hats

It's been going longer though, and I only came here/World of Bistro to watch all the snarking about Rev. Stu in the first place, anyway.

In much the same way as I resent having to have Facebook for certain people when I've got G+, Twitter, etc I'm fed up having to have 3 forums with virtually exactly the same threads on all of them. I get the point about RLLMUK being very populace but that's quite useful, really.

Eventually I'll trim down, but not this week.

Oh, I definitely meant privately. I didn't realise that you contacted people over that kind of thing already. I'm still awaiting my warning

Don't trim this one out, you shite.